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The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.

 Seneca wrote:
The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.

Kroot Mercenaries as a supplement for Tau could work.

Point taken

Codex Night Lords???

Mat

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that any new rules could fit in a WD article. New Warlord table, a little stuff to shake up your FOC (we already know about WKs as Warlords, maybe there'll be other stuff like ability to take squadrons of WLs or something, who knows), maybe a new psychic table...but when all's said and done it would have been nice for this stuff to be put in the £30 book you had to buy to even play Eldar in the first place.

When I think about other armies getting this treatment, like Ork clans, my reaction is unfortunately not excitement but

I think people should prepare themselves for perceived unfairness on a massive scale regarding these supplements. I remember the (legit) complaints on why on earth did Black Templars get a codex in the first place before some first founding chapter and more of the same will follow.

At this point we can't even be sure GW can be arsed to make codex supplements for each of the Eldar craftworlds, not to mention the more far fetched ideas like Tau Septs / Kroot mercenaries (neither of these will never happen), Ork Klans, Hive Fleets, Tomb Worlds, etc. We'll get a couple supplements in a totally random order without any logic whatsoever and after a few years who knows maybe GW changes policy again and stops making them altogether.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that any new rules could fit in a WD article.

It wouldn't be the first time. In the 3rd edition the rules content of every SM/CSM codex would be fit on four WD pages.

 Therion wrote:
I think people should prepare themselves for perceived unfairness on a massive scale

So business as usual then?

I would buy Supplements if they were nothing but fluff/background/short stories/heraldry/etc. I could really care less about special rules, but wouldn't mind if they had some.

Not to excited about the cost.

I miss books like Index Astartes.

I do think charging as much as the main codex is bollucks. So Iyanden players pay twice what regular space elf players pay to field there armies.

BT players should accept what is coming.

I would love a Kroot mercenaries book. But if it requires Tau to play it should not cost the same.

 TalonZahn wrote:
I miss books like Index Astartes.

Exactamundo. Looks like this book might have substantial fluff content unlike the recently updated codices.

 Seneca wrote:
The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.

Farsight gathers a bunch of Tau to rise against the Ethereals and other Aliens.
Codex: Red Tau Supplement

Tau with their Human Auxilluaries ride in at the last moment to help Marneus Calgar defeat a group of 250 Hive Tyrants. They brofist a lot.
Codex: Bro Blue Tau Supplement

Well, a Farsight Enclave Codex would be really cool..... Battlesuits as troops!

As for the Iyanden book, it seems like a good idea. Maybe this is GW's response to: "Make more armies!"

Lucarikx

Again, I can't believe that (some) people are okay with this.

The price is reasonable for the quality of the book? Have you looked at other games? Other gaming companies? Paizo puts out Pathfinder, and their $50 rulebooks are about 4 times as long as these books, and are entirely full color as well.

Good to have the option for your favorite Craftworld/Klan/Legion? There aren't a whole ton of new rules in this book, from all appearances, and it seems like it would have been totally easy to roll out those rules in an actual Codex. I can't be the only guy who owns a ton of Orks and is dreading the thought of buying a Codex Supplement Blood Axes, Codex Supplement Death Skulls, Codex Supplement Goffs, Codex Supplement Evil Suns, Codex Supplement Bad Moons, and Codex Supplement Snakebites.

I'm all for more awesome artwork and background stuff, but give me a book of that stuff, and give me a book of rules, with a minor amount of background and art. Don't sell me a few pages of rules in each of a series of $50 hardcovers.

People are still jazzed about the prospect of getting a supplement for their favorite faction. Will they be as jazzed if three years go by and there's no supplement for their faction? What if the core rulebook changes before you get a supplement, and GW goes back away from supplemental codexes? What if you wait a couple years, get your awesome supplement finally, and GW changes editions and makes it irrelevant?

GW has done supplemental codexes before.

What makes this version of it so much better and more successful than the last time they did it? If they abandoned it once before as a bad/problematic/unprofitable idea, what did they fix this time? Why will it work now when it didn't work before? Why is the idea of having a theme-able list in the basic codex not sufficient?

GW keeps saying that they are a model company, so why do they keep trying to find new ways of flogging books? Instead of moving to a model where rules (at least) are inexpensive and easily available (to encourage people to buy the models), GW is trickling out rules in multiple, more expensive books. Did this work for any other company?

They need to make it easier for people to start collecting an army, or collecting a new army. They were on the right track with things like Kill Team and Allies, which allow and encourage you to start playing small, and to consider buying supplemental armies. Then they go in the exact opposite direction with expensive rulebooks (and expensive supplemental rulebooks).

People complain NOW about GW's erratic proofreading, balancing, and game design. Is having more rules spread across more books going to improve that?

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like GW is trying to get out of a hole by digging faster.


Just to clarify: I love Iyanden, I love the idea of an Iyanden themed army, and I love the idea of GW rules supporting a LOT of different themes in a LOT of different armies. I just don't think $50 supplemental Codexes are, in any way, the best way to accomplish this.

Nevermind.

Extra rules are always great

However, GW needs to make a clear policy that these supplments are tied to the main codex (In this case Eldar). So when the next Eldar dex comes out, or invalidated by 7th edition or something, players won't be all hurt their custom armies are useless. They've been put on notice.

Otherwise we'll end up lost orphans like the Eye of Terror codex (cough Lost and the Damn and Wulfen).

It's okay to not like things, etc.

Some people want this book and are not troubled by the price tag.

 Manchu wrote:
It's okay to not like things, etc.

Some people want this book and are not troubled by the price tag.

This is what I was going for, but mine was much more snarky. Thanks, Manchu.

 NELS1031 wrote:

 Seneca wrote:
The idea of codex supplements is nice, but I don't see how it could work for.. lets say Tau. I mean... are there really that many differences between the individual septs? I also hope that GW won't use this as an excuse for an Marine overkill, and I say that as an DA player.

Kroot Mercenaries as a supplement for Tau could work.

Other than that, there are two ideas that come to mind for me. An expansion that showcases some of the highly experimental prototypes that the Earth Caste are coming out with, stuffed with highly effective (but with heavy drawbacks) gear and upgrades to use, and an expansion that goes into more detail with the Farsight Enclave.

Another idea for supplements is action-based rather than faction-based; you know, Armageddon-type books (which could double as campaign books).

There is no reason why they couldn't have made a supplement with all 5 of the major Craftworlds instead of just Iyanden. They did it before with Codex: Craftworld Eldar in the 3rd edition. That might have justified the price they are asking for this new supplement. How many pages do they honestly need to dedicate to new rules for Iyanden? Especially since you still need Codex: Eldar to use it. Codex: Craftworld Eldar had about 2 pages per Craftworld, and that was enough to make each one unique.

One supplement book per army to cover the major factions would be reasonable. By splitting it up like this, it will take them until 9th edition to do supplemental rules for all of the factions that deserve them.

i want codex: ulthwé like right now, i will gladly pay for it

Poeple talk about the price tag being the same has the codex.

But someone told me that on the Istore Pre-orders, the digital book was at 29euro( wich is still much i agree).

What is it in the end? 39 euro like a dex or 29?...

It's a bad sign when people think GW prices are ok, inthink I must be sone kind of brain washing!

In all seriousness they really should utilize WD more. Every couple of month's jout some new rules for a sub faction, just like what they used to do. Thus would get people buying the mag again. Or keep the Codex very small with only rules in, keep the entry cost down (yeah I know its GW) and provide a separate full colour hardback book with pretty picture and whatnot. They could charge a fair bit for one of those books as you dont 'need' it but people would buy it anyway.

Da Butcha wrote:
Again, I can't believe that (some) people are okay with this.

The price is reasonable for the quality of the book? Have you looked at other games? Other gaming companies? Paizo puts out Pathfinder, and their $50 rulebooks are about 4 times as long as these books, and are entirely full color as well.

Good to have the option for your favorite Craftworld/Klan/Legion? There aren't a whole ton of new rules in this book, from all appearances, and it seems like it would have been totally easy to roll out those rules in an actual Codex. I can't be the only guy who owns a ton of Orks and is dreading the thought of buying a Codex Supplement Blood Axes, Codex Supplement Death Skulls, Codex Supplement Goffs, Codex Supplement Evil Suns, Codex Supplement Bad Moons, and Codex Supplement Snakebites.

I'm all for more awesome artwork and background stuff, but give me a book of that stuff, and give me a book of rules, with a minor amount of background and art. Don't sell me a few pages of rules in each of a series of $50 hardcovers.

People are still jazzed about the prospect of getting a supplement for their favorite faction. Will they be as jazzed if three years go by and there's no supplement for their faction? What if the core rulebook changes before you get a supplement, and GW goes back away from supplemental codexes? What if you wait a couple years, get your awesome supplement finally, and GW changes editions and makes it irrelevant?

GW has done supplemental codexes before.

What makes this version of it so much better and more successful than the last time they did it? If they abandoned it once before as a bad/problematic/unprofitable idea, what did they fix this time? Why will it work now when it didn't work before? Why is the idea of having a theme-able list in the basic codex not sufficient?

GW keeps saying that they are a model company, so why do they keep trying to find new ways of flogging books? Instead of moving to a model where rules (at least) are inexpensive and easily available (to encourage people to buy the models), GW is trickling out rules in multiple, more expensive books. Did this work for any other company?

They need to make it easier for people to start collecting an army, or collecting a new army. They were on the right track with things like Kill Team and Allies, which allow and encourage you to start playing small, and to consider buying supplemental armies. Then they go in the exact opposite direction with expensive rulebooks (and expensive supplemental rulebooks).

People complain NOW about GW's erratic proofreading, balancing, and game design. Is having more rules spread across more books going to improve that?

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like GW is trying to get out of a hole by digging faster.


Just to clarify: I love Iyanden, I love the idea of an Iyanden themed army, and I love the idea of GW rules supporting a LOT of different themes in a LOT of different armies. I just don't think $50 supplemental Codexes are, in any way, the best way to accomplish this.

Couple of observations

You mentioned the price three times. $ 50 does not get you far in 40K and that isn't about to change.

Up top you indicate that for the price they should be providing more rules but down below that more rules just creates problems with game design. So which is it?

Why do you think there wont be many rules in this book? By all accounts so far it seems to have a lot of specific content from what they have shown?

I think all the "what if's" around what GW will do as far as rules and potential impact to our existing armies will always be a risk in a game that updates it's game system and is not specifically a problem with individual army codexes.

What hole is GW trying to get out of?

overtyrant wrote:


In all seriousness they really should utilize WD more. Every couple of month's jout some new rules for a sub faction, just like what they used to do.

And then people complain that they no longer can get those rules from old issues.

They should publish scenarios and such in WD, but probably not actual rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Poeple talk about the price tag being the same has the codex.

But someone told me that on the Istore Pre-orders, the digital book was at 29euro( wich is still much i agree).

What is it in the end? 39 euro like a dex or 29?...

It's 39 dollars, so I'd assume it would be 29 euros.

 Vaeloris wrote:
There is no reason why they couldn't have made a supplement with all 5 of the major Craftworlds instead of just Iyanden. They did it before with Codex: Craftworld Eldar in the 3rd edition. That might have justified the price they are asking for this new supplement. How many pages do they honestly need to dedicate to new rules for Iyanden? Especially since you still need Codex: Eldar to use it. Codex: Craftworld Eldar had about 2 pages per Craftworld, and that was enough to make each one unique.

One supplement book per army to cover the major factions would be reasonable. By splitting it up like this, it will take them until 9th edition to do supplemental rules for all of the factions that deserve them.

I guess the one thought is by doing it this way, they can spread out the Eldar sales. Right now they made a bunch of new wraith kits, so it makes sense Iyanden is on the forefront. We've heard/seen for a while now that new jetbikes are on their way at some point, so it makes sense that those will come out at a later time along an Saim-Hann book.

The other thing to keep in mind is how fast books have been pumped out. We've had 5 codex releases since 6th dropped last summer, and we'll probably see at least one more if not two based on the current rate before the end of 2013. There had been rumors that they wanted to update all the books and then focus on other things, so this could be a possibility as to why.

Or think of it this way... in the release window they may come out with these supplement books and a couple models in a calendar slot that is too tight to do a full army release. Perhaps in the fall we'll see one army get a codex while another 6th ed codex gets a supplement in a different month.

It all comes down to how they execute it of course, but honestly for the most part I've been really happy with GW's moves since 6th dropped so I'll remain cautiously optimistic.

Yeah, I have the sneaking suspicion that (assuming Iyanden doesn't bomb horribly and convince GW to give up the idea entirely) we'll see new supplementary codices coming out in conjunction with new mini waves for various armies over the course of 6th.

So a new Jetbike/Vyper kit might see a Saim-hann book, etc.

Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult ... ad infinitum

I expect that guard will get a supplement for chachans as opposed to the cadians that seemed to dominate the IG book.
tau could get kroot mercs or farsight. both seem equally doable, but kroot has been rumored anyway.
I expect BT for the space marines, if they don't get their normal codex back. Salamanders, Imperial fists and raven guard seem too strongly codex but white scars could get some work.
Orks have the cult of speed, which would work well with this idea and everyone wants genestealer cults for nids.
I don't know enough about Dark eldar or crons to make any guesses for them and the other marine chapters are already, kinda splinter factions themselves. I don't think it would be easy to make supplements for them.

This is all speculation of course. I'm just thinking in words.

 Flood wrote:
Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult Genestealer Cult ... ad infinitum

Yup because what Nid army can't use a bunch of machine guns mounted on limos.

I'm all for cults, but they definitely need a brand new look that is completely unrecognisable from their past.


In defense of the Iyanden suppliment. That's my brand of Eldar so I couldn't be more excited for any book based on them. I hated the Eldar Codex before release, but now looking at it as a whole I admit I was wrong it's not the greatest thing ever but it's miles better than what we had and that gives me hope for this, $50.00 be dammned, I'll buy it.