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add 50-100 points to her then stealth suits become troop choice when you take her ( nearly all of the fluff ive read with her she is always around stealth suits and the odd mention of pathfinders/pahrinas

Why?

 curran12 wrote:
Why?

Because he's silly.

But really, stealth suits should be troops. Drop their armour to 4+, give them markerlights and in place of burst cannons, a twin linked pulse carbine and you've got yourself a decent high end troops choice for Tau.

I'd also raise their points to 40 in doing this, btw.

What.

Let's reiterate this here:

You want to pay 40 points for a Fire Warrior that has a TL Pulse Carbine and a Markerlight (Weird weapons, and weirder combination) and some stealth/JSJ?

I'll stick with 5 firewarriors for that price, thanks.


Realistically, Stealth Suits as a Troops Choice would be hard to implement -- even in Dawn of War (Soulstorm edition), Stealth Suits pooped on every faction as scoring, fusion-blasting badasses.

They could have been troops probably quite easily too be honest, I mean theirs already terminators, paladins, and wraithguard so how bad could this have been?

And the Tau was introduced in Dark Crusade not soulstorm, they were far from the best, very annoying against someone who refused to build stealth seeing units but then again so was Mandrakes, and the potential whole csm army

Err... the Soulstorm balance changes meant that spamming jumpsuits with fusion blasters before your opponent got more than a couple units of space marines or sentinels made Tau ridiculously and overwhelmingly unbalanced. It went unaddressed and it's why Dark Crusade is typically used for competitions and tournaments.


The examples you listed have a fundamental difference: Decent Toughness, decent CC capability, high cost.

Stealth Suits are meant to be high-strength medium-range assassins. They have low toughness and bad CC capability. Their saving grace is Cover Saves at +3; Make them cost too little, and spam will make them powerful. Make them cost too much, or take away their assassination capabilities, and people will just take fire warriors :/

 chrisrawr wrote:
What.

Let's reiterate this here:

You want to pay 40 points for a Fire Warrior that has a TL Pulse Carbine and a Markerlight (Weird weapons, and weirder combination) and some stealth/JSJ?

I'll stick with 5 firewarriors for that price, thanks.


Realistically, Stealth Suits as a Troops Choice would be hard to implement -- even in Dawn of War (Soulstorm edition), Stealth Suits pooped on every faction as scoring, fusion-blasting badasses.

In a codex with absolutely no speed in its troop section? I say yes.

the reason I'd drop it down to a pulse carbine is so that people don't moan about it being a burst cannon. Otherwise I'd leave it as a burst cannon.

Their having a markerlight makes sense. Stealth suits may fire two weapons a turn, so why don't they have two weapons? if they're making use of markerlights, they can do something useful

The problem is, I'd still take Kroot.

" Their having a markerlight makes sense. Stealth suits may fire two weapons a turn, so why don't they have two weapons? if they're making use of markerlights, they can do something useful "

If you want them to have two weapons, give them two weapons. If you want them to have effective markerlights, give them two markerlights. If you want to waste an entire unit's shooting, give that unit markerlights and other weapons.

If you shoot with Carbines, and hit it with markerlights, you run the risk of either: A) Doing nothing with Carbines. B) Killing the unit or putting it out of range (doing nothing with Markerlights). or C) Doing a little of both, making them less useful than units dedicated to either role.

Tau are about having a place and knowing it. Stealth Suits are Assassins, Infiltrators, and Offensive units, 100%. Their stealth is to get them into place and keep them from being noticed. It should not be a defense against units that should be able to kill them, nor should it be something that allows them to ignore blast weaponry and sit on backfield objectives.

Regardless, if Stealth Suits were to be a Troops Choice, it would be the Stripped-Down XV15; S3 T3 4+ Save and only Shrouded. Passing an Initiative test when taking saves would grant it Stealth as well (1/3 chance). It would have a Burst Cannon and the choice to upgrade 1 in 3 to a Fusion or Plasma gun. They'd be costed at 20 points per model, Jet Pack Infantry.

Did you just tell me that a unit with close to 0 offensive capabilities, extremely defensive rules and an even more supportive defensive fluff is actually fine as it is? It's the sick puppy of the tau codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chrisrawr wrote:

If you want them to have two weapons, give them two weapons. If you want them to have effective markerlights, give them two markerlights. If you want to waste an entire unit's shooting, give that unit markerlights and other weapons.

If you shoot with Carbines, and hit it with markerlights, you run the risk of either: A) Doing nothing with Carbines. B) Killing the unit or putting it out of range (doing nothing with Markerlights). or C) Doing a little of both, making them less useful than units dedicated to either role.

Tau are about having a place and knowing it. Stealth Suits are Assassins, Infiltrators, and Offensive units, 100%. Their stealth is to get them into place and keep them from being noticed. It should not be a defense against units that should be able to kill them, nor should it be something that allows them to ignore blast weaponry and sit on backfield objectives.

Regardless, if Stealth Suits were to be a Troops Choice, it would be the Stripped-Down XV15; S3 T3 4+ Save and only Shrouded. Passing an Initiative test when taking saves would grant it Stealth as well (1/3 chance). It would have a Burst Cannon and the choice to upgrade 1 in 3 to a Fusion or Plasma gun. They'd be costed at 20 points per model, Jet Pack Infantry.

Give them two weapons how, Dear chris?

24 S5AP5 shots is 10 dead orks. 3 markerlights on them is possibly another 20. Markerlights are more valuable than burst cannons, but burst cannons are nice weapons to fire. Take the example of a flyer. if it's AV11, you shoot burst cannons to force it to evade. that way, it doesn't actually matter if you fail hit with a markerlight. If you hit with a markerlight, great. now your other units can light 'em up for you and finish the job.

You're right. Tau have a place and they know it. Except stealth suits. They have no place in the elites section. They don't do their job well.

And the stealth suits you just suggested have a 1 point worse cover save in the open, can take an extra special weapon, an extra kind of special weapon and are half the point. Somehow, my suggestion is the inane one?

I love the idea of Stealthsuits as troops, because that's really the only way I would take them. I understand that there is some concern over them being too useful or too useless with their standard equipment.

Really what I would do, is give them the old stealth generator effect and make them always count as if night fighting was in effect. Drop them down a bit in cost and keep all other options the same. You still have the same drawbacks of being an expensive T3, BS3 model with crap combat skills and low model count. They do have the benefits of stronger base firepower than troops, faster, and being a bit more durable.

If you wanted to make stealth suits troops, make them only able to be XV15s, so they can't take any support systems, like in the 3rd Ed. codex. Then XV25s are elite, can take support systems, and maybe a second weapon option in exchange for a points bump.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
If you wanted to make stealth suits troops, make them only able to be XV15s, so they can't take any support systems, like in the 3rd Ed. codex. Then XV25s are elite, can take support systems, and maybe a second weapon option in exchange for a points bump.

That could work.

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
If you wanted to make stealth suits troops, make them only able to be XV15s, so they can't take any support systems, like in the 3rd Ed. codex. Then XV25s are elite, can take support systems, and maybe a second weapon option in exchange for a points bump.

I like this plan, except for one thing: The XV-25 looks stupid and always has. :p

Then again, I'd only be using XV-15s, because the Fire Warriors are literally the odd unit out in my Darkstrider force.

If anyone is going for the "stealth suits as troops route"

Just take the XV-15, make it something between a stealth suits and a fire warrior, and call it a day.

It will be far more sane then trying to balance out stealthsuits as troops.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
If you wanted to make stealth suits troops, make them only able to be XV15s, so they can't take any support systems, like in the 3rd Ed. codex. Then XV25s are elite, can take support systems, and maybe a second weapon option in exchange for a points bump.

I like this plan, except for one thing: The XV-25 looks stupid and always has. :p

Then again, I'd only be using XV-15s, because the Fire Warriors are literally the odd unit out in my Darkstrider force.

Darkstrider is the odd unit out in your darkstrider force.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Shas'o_Longshot wrote:
If you wanted to make stealth suits troops, make them only able to be XV15s, so they can't take any support systems, like in the 3rd Ed. codex. Then XV25s are elite, can take support systems, and maybe a second weapon option in exchange for a points bump.

I like this plan, except for one thing: The XV-25 looks stupid and always has. :p

Then again, I'd only be using XV-15s, because the Fire Warriors are literally the odd unit out in my Darkstrider force.

Darkstrider is the odd unit out in your darkstrider force.

That's just the way he rolls. The army basically consists of two Skyrays, two Barracudas, two Pathfinder squads, a Remora squadron and a Piranha squadron at 2k. :p Throw and Ethereal and Darkstrider in there and fill the rest out with carbine FW squads.

i know you think its rediculos and its not the tau way or something but its not a traditional tau army its a unique one as its what shadow sun basicly does even though thers no such thing as troops choice shadow suns fluff kind of empliyes stealth suits are troops choice

That sentence...

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