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Hi my first attempt tried to use the infamous Aircron invasion, but also had a Royal court with doubled Crypteks, my reading again of the rules says that's not allowed, so only one Despairtek with VoD and only one Destructek with SP per royal court...

any-who, this has led to a different suggestion, more of a scarab swarm come Necron blob army

1500pts that I hope will be effective in tournaments, not expecting to be winning all the time, but want to feel like my guys can toe to toe with some people!

HQ #1 = Overlord with War-scythe, Rez-Orb, Mindshackle Scarabs, Laberyinth

Royal Court = Destructek (Lance and Solar Pulse) Despairtek (Abisal Staff and VoD) (nb. am I right in thinking you have to take the weapon change...it that correct?)

HQ #2 = Destroyer Lord

Troops #1 = 5x Warriors in Ghost Ark (add Destructek)

Troops #2 = 15x Warriors (add Overlord)

Troops #3 = 5x Immortals with Tesla (home Objective sitters)

Elites = 5x Deathmarks (add Despairtek)

Fast # 1 = 5x Scarabs

Fast #2 = 5x Scarabs

Fast #3 = 6x Wraiths, 2 with whips (add Destroyer Lord)

Heavy #1 = 2x Spyders

Heavy #2 = 1x Spyder with fab claw

my calculations make this 1500 on the dot

tactics would be to pop a Solar Pluse, and then use the Necron Blob, backed up by the 5 man Warrior Ark as a walking Wall of Gauss shots, should be hard to bring down with most weaponry, plus the Mind-shackle and Labyrinth for those Characters/Sergeants that need killing who manage to get into CC with blob, this will have the single spyder running in behind the Ark to keep it happy and healthy, then the deep-striking Deathmarks with their VoD will be able to jump around knocking out "ouch" infantry, Scarabs run as a wall of AV munching joy with the 2 Spyders restocking their numbers as they go, leaving the Destroyer Lord and his 6 Wraith to be my CC bomb for cleaning away (hopefully) most infantry and even taking out the odd tank

does this work...will it only last 2 turns and then all die in a molten mess...is it too Scarab heavy? are the Spyders worth the 160 points?

any and all crits would be great, I'm new to all this and am feeling rather uncertain

thanks




Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s. if upping to 1750 I would add 2x Night Scythes, 1 for DMarks the other for Immortals, give my Destroyer Lord a make over with SW and MS and give my Overlord SW too

Hey, i love wraith wings but im not a big fan of the spider farm but if your set on it then trop the fab claw it's aimed at repairs so your not going to get any advantage also drop the labyrinth and use the spare points to increase the ark warriors to 9, 5 will go down far easier than you think and when there gone there gone. You might want to invest in some of the AV13 vehicles on offer i love the doomsday cannon if placed right it can take chucks out of anything.

Be mindful that the spyders only have a 3+ theres a lot of ap3 out there

I like the concept of the list. Couple of things though;
1. You'd be better off dropping a spyder and the labyrinth to get an annihilation barge in just for some more firepower, 2 spyders is enough.
2. Please give that D Lord an upgrade of some kind SW because otherise he will get mowed in a challenge by most guys with power weapons.
3. You only need one Scarab unit, spyders keep it healthy and you free up 75pts for MSS on the D Lord and SW on both.

Overall, its a pretty good list to start with though

thanks for the suggestions, to stay under 1500pts I'd have to do something like this...

HQ #1 = Overlord with Warscythe, Rez Orb, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave

Royal Court = Destructek with Lance and Solar Pulse, Despairtek with Abyssal and VoD

HQ #2 = Destroyer Lord with Sempiternal Weave and Mindshackle Scarabs

Troops #1 = 7x Warriors in Ghost Ark (with Destructek)

Troops #2 = 15 Warriors (with Overlord)

Troops #3 = 5x Immortals

Elites = 5x Deathmarks (with Despairtek)

Fast Attack #1 = 6 Wraiths (2x Whips) (with Destroyer Lord)

Fast Attack #2 = 4x Scarabs

Heavy #1 = Annihilation Barge

Heavy #2 = 2x Spyders

that comes in at 1496

thanks for everything so far, does that look better?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
if going up to 1750 points with this I think it would be

make the Scarabs start at 5

3 tomb blades with Gauss blasters?

Doomsday Ark

takes it to 1746 points

Okay, let’s see. First, just to make sure, you know you have to start the Deathmarks on the board and use veil to move them. Can't DS despairteks.

The issue with your scarabs is that there are to few for a "farm". Not to mention they move so much faster than the fat spyders so you have a round maybe two to spawn the bases. Even then you are only up to eight bases. Considering you are going to be getting shot at in that time frame, it is likely going to be to little to late. Scarabs are not scoring and cannot deny so your looking to make moves on turn three for a tank or assault unit. If you are going to run scarabs and spyders you need them in more numbers. The concept isn't as impactful since they faq'd how spawning scarabs works.

Are you limited in models to any degree? Knowing what you can play will help.

Not having any flyers isn't "bad" per say but having one to drop the DM and Despairtek right on top of their target would be really nice. Trusting DS to get you close enough to get the full impact of the template is very unlikely. Anyone remotely smart isn't doing to let you mark them then walk the unit up to them and set them on fire like that. You scatter too far and they could die with never once doing more than dropping 5 sniper shots.

The Ab is really your most versatile HS you have. Some people don't like to bring 3, because it feels like cheese but having two is almost a must. The doom ark is meh when you really get down to it. If you don't move it, you don't get a jink save.. if you move it.. the gun on it is crap. So to drop those big plates you have to put it in cover or on a skyshield if you don't want it targeted right out the gate.

Roci wrote:Okay, let’s see. First, just to make sure, you know you have to start the Deathmarks on the board and use veil to move them. Can't DS despairteks.

That's not a despairtek, it's a veiltek. Perfectly ok to reserve. However, you should start on the board for a T1 alpha strike and first blood.

Roci wrote:The issue with your scarabs is that there are to few for a "farm". Not to mention they move so much faster than the fat spyders so you have a round maybe two to spawn the bases. Even then you are only up to eight bases. Considering you are going to be getting shot at in that time frame, it is likely going to be to little to late. Scarabs are not scoring and cannot deny so your looking to make moves on turn three for a tank or assault unit. If you are going to run scarabs and spyders you need them in more numbers. The concept isn't as impactful since they faq'd how spawning scarabs works.

Wat? Firstly, you should be assaulting T2. Second - what FAQ ruling are you referring to? is it the unit coherency within 2" thing - No reason for that to deny effectiveness of spawning.

But yes, more scarabs in a scarab farm is a good idea.

Roci wrote:
Not having any flyers isn't "bad" per say but having one to drop the DM and Despairtek right on top of their target would be really nice. Trusting DS to get you close enough to get the full impact of the template is very unlikely. Anyone remotely smart isn't doing to let you mark them then walk the unit up to them and set them on fire like that. You scatter too far and they could die with never once doing more than dropping 5 sniper shots.

This is one view. However, DS is a perfectly valid option, particularly if you want to get First Blood (start on the table, veil in, destroy unit.)

Roci wrote:The Ab is really your most versatile HS you have. Some people don't like to bring 3, because it feels like cheese but having two is almost a must. The doom ark is meh when you really get down to it. If you don't move it, you don't get a jink save.. if you move it.. the gun on it is crap. So to drop those big plates you have to put it in cover or on a skyshield if you don't want it targeted right out the gate.

This. But in a scarab farm you should be maxing spyders (ie 9) and having 9 monstrous creatures has a joy all of its own.

To the OP:

Are you sure you have the rule down correctly re the crypteks?

In any RC, you can have as many of the same Harbringer as you like, who will all take the required Staff upgrades. However in any RC, only 1 of each Harbringer can have the special wargear. So, you could have 2 Despairteks, but only 1 could have a veil. You can have 5 lanceteks if you want.

There is a restriction on attaching crypteks/lords to units. For each RC you have, 1 cryptek can be attached to a unit. So, to attach 2 despairteks to a unit, you need to have 2 different royal courts (and therefore, 2 overlords).

I quite like that second list, it's something I'd run certainly. Focusing on te 1750 part...
The extra Scarab, fine no bother there.
Doomsday Arks are one of those units that will either fail EPICALLY, or win you the game, no in between. Doom Scythes are the same points and give you a maneuvrable AB and a Death Ray, plus some proper anti flyer. Then again a NS will do the same, swapping the ray for transport, and for 75pts less. I'd drop the ark, put your immortals in an NS and increase the size, drop the extra scarab and you'll have room for 5 more. What are they armed with btw?
Tomb Blades I don't know I've only run them once and they died.

thanks for all the replies, plenty to be thinking about, will look about removing/reviewing some of the choices I've suggested, tomb blades I hadn't thought about as being good or bad, but Jetbikes being able to boost across a table seemed useful, saying that, they're still only carrying 3 twin linked gauss blasters, so aren't going to do a huge amount of damage for the price...drawing board on that one...

regarding the Doom Ark, I had wondered about flyers instead, and had thought about a doom scythe, spoke with the chap in local store who mentioned that everyone has a lot of anti air options now so it wouldn't be flying very long before it was downed, but having said that, the Ark is either a sitting duck or a naff shot while the doom scythe seems to be maneuverable and do nice amounts of damage...

i think I'll try and find a happy middle between Scarab swarming and aircron, but I'm hoping the "Core" of the army is viable, maybe 1 doom scythe with a couple of nightscythes and the Spyder away the rest of my HS remove Tomb Blades and add more scarabs (another swarm or just max out the first swarm, what's better?)

*****
regarding the rules on the Crypteks, yep its wanting multiple VOD that's my problem...which would need a second Overlord, and it seems like the Destroyer Lord is a better option in this build, rather than a second DS giver, although a load of lances wouldn't be a bad idea...maybe

*****

anyway, time to put head down, will consider codex over cocoa and think about version 3 in the morning, again a huge thanks for all the comments so far

MarkCron wrote:

Roci wrote:Okay, let’s see. First, just to make sure, you know you have to start the Deathmarks on the board and use veil to move them. Can't DS despairteks.

That's not a despairtek, it's a veiltek. Perfectly ok to reserve. However, you should start on the board for a T1 alpha strike and first blood.

Roci wrote:The issue with your scarabs is that there are to few for a "farm". Not to mention they move so much faster than the fat spyders so you have a round maybe two to spawn the bases. Even then you are only up to eight bases. Considering you are going to be getting shot at in that time frame, it is likely going to be to little to late. Scarabs are not scoring and cannot deny so your looking to make moves on turn three for a tank or assault unit. If you are going to run scarabs and spyders you need them in more numbers. The concept isn't as impactful since they faq'd how spawning scarabs works.

Wat? Firstly, you should be assaulting T2. Second - what FAQ ruling are you referring to? is it the unit coherency within 2" thing - No reason for that to deny effectiveness of spawning.

But yes, more scarabs in a scarab farm is a good idea.

I explained that poorly. I was just saying with 4 bases if your moving out T1 to assault them T2 your not going to get much in the way of spawning. You will get two bases that first turn and will be lucky if you get to spawn again because they are to far away to add them to a unit.

I also call all teks with the abassmal staff despairteks. Just a personal preference. You can reserve them just fine but you can't Deep strike them with deathmarks. Once again, poorly worded on my part. That is what I get for posting while trying to work.

I don't care for the doom scythe in my person lists. It is just to many points and the deathray can be annoying to use. You can get real lucky with it and do a lot of damage but you also might only get one shot off with it at best. You can "almost" buy two ABs for the points.

 Roci wrote:

I don't care for the doom scythe in my person lists. It is just to many points and the deathray can be annoying to use. You can get real lucky with it and do a lot of damage but you also might only get one shot off with it at best. You can "almost" buy two ABs for the points.

This.

Re the scarabs, agree it can be tough to keep the spyders close enough. However, I normally start my scarabs behind the spyders for cover, which helps. Depending on opponent deployment, I will often not run the scarabs in the first turn which also helps. So, with three spyders, a little luck, I can get 4 bases to 10 bases T2. However, once they are in assault, you can still add more bases, and now that there are no fearless wounds I'll often run the spyders into the combat T3.

I personally find scarabs too weak for my liking. They're useful, they just don't last that long and can last much.

 poppa G wrote:
I personally find scarabs too weak for my liking. They're useful, they just don't last that long and can last much.

I ran 5 scarab bases and 3 spyders against GK. Spawned up to 8 then flew them into cc with advancing Inquistorial warband made Troop by Coteaz, who were on an objective. Took their time (bad dice on my part) but they wiped them out. Then spawned a few more when my spyders caught up, then went and wrecked a Land Raider! They lasted and if they go near a wehicle it may well go home there and then. And the unit was never wiped out either.

Really as long as you avoid a flamer squad/get in to cc quickly especially with a tank, they're amazing and pay back their points imo

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

Really as long as you avoid a flamer squad/get in to cc quickly especially with a tank, they're amazing and pay back their points imo

This. Just. This.

MarkCron wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

Really as long as you avoid a flamer squad/get in to cc quickly especially with a tank, they're amazing and pay back their points imo

This. Just. This.

This was my understanding with scarabs, so scrap the doom ark, get another Spyer, look to boost scarabs, loose tomb blades for 1750 games and look at two NS and more tesla immortals? Does this sound right?

That sounds right. For a scarab farm, you want more spyders. Try and keep them in groups of 3 - I find that is easier to share wounds around.

ok so here goes again,

1500 points (then followed by the 1750 upgrade items)

HQ #1 = Overlord with WS, RO, MSS, SW

Royal Court = 1x Harb or Despair with VOD and 1x Harb or Destruct with Solar Pulse

HQ #2 = Destroyer Lord with SW and MSS

Troops #1 = 5x Warriors joined by Destructek in Ghost Ark, (stay in Ark until final turns to take any open objectives)

Troops # 2 = 15x Warriors joined by Overlord, (walk in front of Ark for support to take objective

Troops #3 = 5 x Immortals carrying Tesla Carbines, ("home" objective holders)

Elites = Deathmarks, joined by Despairtek with VOD

Fast Attack #1 = 6x Scarabs

Fast Attack #2 = 6x Wraiths joined by Destroyer Lord

Heavy Support #1 = Annihilation Barge

Heavy Support #2 = 2x Spyders

same type of tactics as before with a few odds and ends tweeked in the numbers, other than that no changes

1500 points on the nose

*****

for the boost to 1750pts my thought is...

add another Scarab group (had the extra points) - meaning in turn 1 I should have 10, which I think is the max a unit can take even with Spyders

add 5 more Immortals with tesla and give them a Night Scythe

add another Spyder

1750pts

better...worse...took out the Dbarge, as said it looks great or greatly underpowered dependent, now have a second AB that flies, and a more substatial Immortal group who can take a bit more stick, plus the spyders can share better wounds if needs be

hope this is able to do a bit of damage, win a game or two without shouts of "Cheese" and without being a boring game for either side

again so much thanks for all the comments and suggestions made, I'm amazed by how good the community is in helping noobs, so again thanks

Better. I'd run that list, infact I ran something very similar recently. Good work. As for the community helping, its what we're here for, otherwise these threads would be a waste of space, so no worries

Good list.

I'd swap the overlord you have for Zandhrek as his buffs are very helpful in this list (15 warriors with counterattack? Scarabs with furious charge?).

For your boost to 1750, I would suggest, Anni Barge, Spyder, Night Scythe for the immortals. You have three solid troops, so I'm suggesting boosting support fire, adding another MC and some more mobility. Imho, you don't need another troop.

As to Cheese, well you have all the components of it (hard to get away from). But, this list is balanced and not, in my view,