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I kinda didn't read those at the time sorry, my bad. Some of them are good but I don't play Ctan or MCs so I dunno. The Stalker Smash option is valid, though it'll have to cost a bit. Maybe;
Stalker 100pts
Heat Ray and Relay
MTC, LM and QS
may replace ray with;
HGC +10pts
Particle Shredder +10pts
may take;
Adamantium Forelegs (someone pleeaase suggest a better name); thees allow the Triarch Stalker to rear up and penetrate the hull of even the toughest armour. The Triarch Stalker has the Smash Special Rule +30pts?

I was thinking, maybe the Necrons could have 7 warlord traits, with Phaerons and some Special Characters having access to the seventh.

So maybe something like:

Will of the Undead: With the power of an entire dynasty behind him, the Warlord's will can not be disobeyed
The Warlord and all units within 12" have the ATSKNF (Fearless?) special rule.


Phaeron: This model, if he is your warlord, may re-roll the a result on the Warlord Traits Table or choose the 7th option, they can not do both!

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

Adamantium Forelegs (someone pleeaase suggest a better name);

Phase Talons?

 King Pariah wrote:

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:

Adamantium Forelegs (someone pleeaase suggest a better name);

Phase Talons?

Hyperphase Talons.

Sempiternal Talons?

Hyperphase Talons make it sound like a Hyperphase sword for walkers, an AP 3 attack

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I kinda didn't read those at the time sorry, my bad. Some of them are good but I don't play Ctan or MCs so I dunno. The Stalker Smash option is valid, though it'll have to cost a bit. Maybe;
Stalker 100pts
Heat Ray and Relay
MTC, LM and QS
may replace ray with;
HGC +10pts
Particle Shredder +10pts
may take;
Adamantium Forelegs (someone pleeaase suggest a better name); thees allow the Triarch Stalker to rear up and penetrate the hull of even the toughest armour. The Triarch Stalker has the Smash Special Rule +30pts?

Smash for 30 points? Nope. 20 maybe. Also Maybe a twin-linked Particle Shredder and two Heavy Gauss Cannons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Sempiternal Talons?

Hyperphase Talons make it sound like a Hyperphase sword for walkers, an AP 3 attack

True. I like the name you came up with.

Eh. Sempiternal fits better with armor. Everlasting/eternal talons is not something that sounds all that menacing.

Perhaps Lambaste Fangs/Hook?

Just call it

The Triarch Stalker may have the Siege Walker upgrade for +20 points.

 Sasori wrote:
Just call it

The Triarch Stalker may have the Siege Walker upgrade for +20 points.

Sounds good to me.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Just call it

The Triarch Stalker may have the Siege Walker upgrade for +20 points.

Sounds good to me.

Agreed thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I was thinking, maybe the Necrons could have 7 warlord traits, with Phaerons and some Special Characters having access to the seventh.

So maybe something like:

Will of the Undead: With the power of an entire dynasty behind him, the Warlord's will can not be disobeyed
The Warlord and all units within 12" have the ATSKNF (Fearless?) special rule.


Phaeron: This model, if he is your warlord, may re-roll the a result on the Warlord Traits Table or choose the 7th option, they can not do both!

Hmmm.......... It's an interesting idea, very 'fluffy', but no other dex has 7 traits and seen as we're out to balance I don't know. If it was implemented it would have to be worth taking if you want people to buy Phaeron, so Relentless could go in there as well, and possibly another USR

Well, seeming you have to pay points to get it, I think it's balanced (in that regard).

Adding relentless sounds good! Unsure what other USR would be good, though (if any).


Also, in regrds to skoffs' Necrons Codex 2.0 doc, I feel that Transdimensional Beamers as a Tomb Blade weapon upgrade is unfluffy, it would be more on spiders (and still balanced, imo)

Despite the fact that we're working on Elites at the moment, I've gotta say something about the transport section before I forget.
Nightscythes:
- need to be relegated to non-troop units only (will prevent ridiculous amounts of spam, as well as the TFG tactic of waiting until turn 5 to drop MSU Warriors on objectives to win the game).
- Tesla Destructor needs to be a purchasable upgrade, not a standard weapon.

I already touch on these points a bit already, as well as the Ghost Ark, but we'll come back to the transport section later.

 skoffs wrote:
Despite the fact that we're working on Elites at the moment, I've gotta say something about the transport section before I forget.
Nightscythes:
- need to be relegated to non-troop units only (will prevent ridiculous amounts of spam, as well as the TFG tactic of waiting until turn 5 to drop MSU Warriors on objectives to win the game).
- Tesla Destructor needs to be a purchasable upgrade, not a standard weapon.

I already touch on these points a bit already, as well as the Ghost Ark, but we'll come back to the transport section later.

I'm not sure about that. The fluff doesn't really match that; perhaps a rule that the Night Scythe must come on the field before turn 5, or that Night Scythes are a 0-2 option for the army? Either that or make the Ghost Ark more viable a competitor to the Night Scythe.

 skoffs wrote:
Despite the fact that we're working on Elites at the moment, I've gotta say something about the transport section before I forget.
Nightscythes:
- need to be relegated to non-troop units only (will prevent ridiculous amounts of spam, as well as the TFG tactic of waiting until turn 5 to drop MSU Warriors on objectives to win the game).
- Tesla Destructor needs to be a purchasable upgrade, not a standard weapon.

I already touch on these points a bit already, as well as the Ghost Ark, but we'll come back to the transport section later.

There is no reason for any of that.

A points increase of 25 points (25%) Will make a massive difference. There is really no need for the extremely heavy nerfing you're suggesting.

I'll agree with kingsley on the trait whatsit when you put it that way, especially seen as Phaeron also re-rolls RP. The NS argument is a long one, we could easily be here all day with it. I agree on making the Destructor an upgrade, but don't reserves HAVE to come on Turn 4 now? So the MSU warriors trick is slightly harder to do if it is. We can't take away the transport options otherwise Immortals have no transport and Warriors become more 1-dimensional (stomp up with GA's fixing them)

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I'll agree with kingsley on the trait whatsit when you put it that way, especially seen as Phaeron also re-rolls RP. The NS argument is a long one, we could easily be here all day with it. I agree on making the Destructor an upgrade, but don't reserves HAVE to come on Turn 4 now? So the MSU warriors trick is slightly harder to do if it is. We can't take away the transport options otherwise Immortals have no transport and Warriors become more 1-dimensional (stomp up with GA's fixing them)

To fix up the Ghost Ark, there are a few options that I like:
- Making from armor AV12 (AV14 with QS).
- Removing the Repair Barge rule and the restriction for only HQ and Warriors, leaving Repair Barge an upgrade that changes it to only transport HQ and Warriors.
- Lowering the cost to 100.

If you're gonna do that McNinja the upgrade for AV12 will likely be about 15 pts and the Repair one 10 seen as flexibility is lost in terms of transport.

Sasori even at 125 the NS is cheaper than a Stormtalon (and kicks its SM butt) with a transport capacity unrivalled (even a Stormraven only has 12-and a Dread but it's only 13 models) and th 2nd most powerful flyer gun besides the lascannon. AND if it is destroyed the unit isn't. It needs weakening, even if it is only the gun getting downgraded.

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
If you're gonna do that McNinja the upgrade for AV12 will likely be about 15 pts and the Repair one 10 seen as flexibility is lost in terms of transport.

Sasori even at 125 the NS is cheaper than a Stormtalon (and kicks its SM butt) with a transport capacity unrivalled (even a Stormraven only has 12-and a Dread but it's only 13 models) and th 2nd most powerful flyer gun besides the lascannon. AND if it is destroyed the unit isn't. It needs weakening, even if it is only the gun getting downgraded.

This is what I have for both transports, see what you think:

Ghost Ark
115 points
...................BS..FA..SA...RA
Ghost Ark.....4...12..11...11
Composition: 1 Ghost Ark
Unit Type: Vehicle (Open-topped, Skimmer)
Transport Capacity: 12
Aeonic Artifacts: Quantum Shielding, two Gauss Flayer Arrays
Special Rules: Living Metal
Options:
A Ghost Ark may become a Repair Barge. If it does so, it may only transport HQ models and Warriors.

Night Scythe
130 points
........................BS..FA..SA...RA
Night Scythe.....4...11..11...11
Composition: 1 Night Scythe
Unit Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Transport Capacity: 15
Aeonic Artifacts: Twin-linked Tesla Cannon
Special Rules: Living Metal, Supersonic
Options:
A Night Scythe may replace the twin-linked Tesla Cannon with one of the following:
-Twin-linked Gauss Cannon – free
-Twin-linked Heavy Gauss Cannon – 10 points
-Twin-linked Tesla Destructor -15 points

With those options, I think I'd drop the cost of Nightscythe to 110. With TL Tesla Cannon, I feel that making it cost as much as a Vendetta is a bit OTT

 King Pariah wrote:
With those options, I think I'd drop the cost of Nightscythe to 110. With TL Tesla Cannon, I feel that making it cost as much as a Vendetta is a bit OTT

Agreed, its a good balance well.... HQ just about done, Elites and Transports the same. Troops.... We've covered FO and I think Warriors and Immortals are fine. So that's FA and HS, plus fixing up little things in HQ like who has what trait and if the named guys have boosts etcetcetc. We're doing well! keep it up guys and we'll have a brilliant dex

Yep, like I said in the Google doc, turning the Ghost Ark into a transport option that any infantry can take will reduce dependency on Nightscythes (it being an open topped transport would make it an assault vehicle that the Lychguard would love to their hands on).

However, making it AV 12 would be pushing it. That would give us (effectively) two AV 14 vehicles. That's not going to fly, as far as inter-codex balance goes.

With the Ghost Ark available to other infantry units, making the Nightscythe more of an "elite" transport option, rather than a mass transit delivery system like it is now, would work out pretty well. Like was mentioned, even with a price increase, people are still going to try to spam the best transport in the game. Limiting their ability to do so would the fairest way to balance it, without nerfing its movement/delivery rules.
Heavy Gauss cannons probably don't need to go on it, though. With the other units in the codex that are going to be able to carry them (Destroyers, Stalker, Annihilation Barge), we should be fine (we don't want to saturate the army with long range weaponry. that's not the role of our army. we're midfield kings, after all).

 King Pariah wrote:
With those options, I think I'd drop the cost of Nightscythe to 110. With TL Tesla Cannon, I feel that making it cost as much as a Vendetta is a bit OTT

The Nightscythe needs to be stock standard with Tesla Destructors, as that's the only way the kit can be built.

So, adjusting the price is the most prudent thing to do.

I still think 125 would be a fair start. You don't want to overnerf something. More Armies are getting AA, and it has been shown to have a pretty big effect. Tesla Destructors are a great weapon, but they aren't the best, second, or even third best weapons that are flyers. I'd say 135 at most, but that is quite a hefty increase.

 Sasori wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
With those options, I think I'd drop the cost of Nightscythe to 110. With TL Tesla Cannon, I feel that making it cost as much as a Vendetta is a bit OTT

The Nightscythe needs to be stock standard with Tesla Destructors, as that's the only way the kit can be built.

So, adjusting the price is the most prudent thing to do.

I still think 125 would be a fair start. You don't want to overnerf something. More Armies are getting AA, and it has been shown to have a pretty big effect. Tesla Destructors are a great weapon, but they aren't the best, second, or even third best weapons that are flyers. I'd say 135 at most, but that is quite a hefty increase.

I'm actually for keeping the Destructors, just seems like everyone else is rooting for Tesla Cannons (which I don't entirely blame them for with all the rage there is over Scythe Spam).

Anyway, with 110 base. They still end up 125 with the Destructors upgrade. Compromise.

 King Pariah wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
With those options, I think I'd drop the cost of Nightscythe to 110. With TL Tesla Cannon, I feel that making it cost as much as a Vendetta is a bit OTT

The Nightscythe needs to be stock standard with Tesla Destructors, as that's the only way the kit can be built.

So, adjusting the price is the most prudent thing to do.

I still think 125 would be a fair start. You don't want to overnerf something. More Armies are getting AA, and it has been shown to have a pretty big effect. Tesla Destructors are a great weapon, but they aren't the best, second, or even third best weapons that are flyers. I'd say 135 at most, but that is quite a hefty increase.

I'm actually for keeping the Destructors, just seems like everyone else is rooting for Tesla Cannons (which I don't entirely blame them for with all the rage there is over Scythe Spam).

Anyway, with 110 base. They still end up 125 with the Destructors upgrade. Compromise.

I like it.
For the time being, the Tesla Destructors are just going to have to "count as" the other weapons (after all, we're giving Destroyers and Lychguard weapons they don't come with in the box, so it's gonna have to do until the next official model update happens, where they can insert extra weapons sprues.

On the Ghost Ark, Keep it AV11 is my vote. 11(13)/11(13)/11 is plenty tough for a transport. Aside from that, isn't just about every other vehicle with AV14 Heavy/Lumbering Behemoth (aside from DA's special landspeeder?)

Every other vehicle except marine vehicles iirc.

Yay marines...

I still think NS should have the destructed standard, but oh well.


Also, FO should have fear. not as an upgrade though. In the old rules they had the 'Terrifying Visage' rule, which is pretty much what fear is now.

Also, disruption fields should come back, but maybe as a 5-10 pts/ model upgrade that grants shred and/or rending? For Scarabs and FO only (maybe Lords?).


Also, seeming we are thinking (decided?) about a FO overlord special character, shouldn't there be a FO Overlord? (Maybe with disruption fields?)

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
FO should have fear. not as an upgrade though. In the old rules they had the 'Terrifying Visage' rule, which is pretty much what fear is now.

Also, disruption fields should come back, but maybe as a 5-10 pts/ model upgrade that grants shred and/or rending? For Scarabs and FO only (maybe Lords?).


Also, seeming we are thinking (decided?) about a FO overlord special character, shouldn't there be a FO Overlord? (Maybe with disruption fields?)

Check out the Google doc/the update McNinja did a page or so back.

Ah, missed that. Thanks

Well then, looks like British sleeping time isn't the best time to be away seen as so much gets done without you. Anyway, the GA and NS looks great I must say. So what now? We sorted Destroyers out, we still need to tidy up the rest of FA then have a proper look at HS. For FA imo...
Wraiths need a small (5-10ppm) price increase to reduce spam and keep things in balance
Tomb Blades maybe have the vanes bog standard and some other wargear?
Scarabs I think are alright, maybe something to give them an AI option

Actually, I was thinking the opposite for Wraiths. DEcrease the price by 5... and then charge 15 points per model to give the squad Phase Shifters. Without that 3++, they'll still be pretty decent as choppy infantry, just not as "OP" as they are now (and obviously the ability is still present, at the price you suggested, making them a little more fair).

For Tomb Blades, nah, keep the Shield Vanes as upgrades. Makes them a customize-as-you-see-fit strike squad if you want, while still retaining the ability to run the squad cheap and bare bones if you also want. I'll agree that perhaps some new/different equipment would be good (eg. the Heat Blaster x1 per squad, to really harass vehicles, or Transdimensional Beamers to act as our version of a JotWW-esque HQ harasser (unpredictable potential inv save negating attack). As the only unit that comes with Relentless naturally, these guys would benefit from this weapon the most (x3 per squad).)

And yeah, Scarabs just need to be updated to the IA12 versions to be adequate.