Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That doesn't seem so bad, now.

Yeah, maybe just 1 W (they're only man sized, after all).
A 2+ save on a 2W T5 model would be a bit much, where as on a 1W model seems totally fine.

Fair enough, with the TDB, too.
That shooting weapon profile seems much more fair.

Gloom Projectors are looking a lot better, too.

I'd be about ready to sign off on these now, what's everyone else think?

My Take, using Matt's profile as a foundation.

Necron Pariahs 200pts

WS 4
BS 4
S 4
T 4
W 1
I 3
A 1
Ld 10
Sv 3+
Composition: 4 Necron Pariahs
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear: Pariah Warstave, Hyperdermis
Special Rules: Fearless, Abominable Presence

Options:
Up to 6 more Necron Pariahs...40pts/ model

Pariah Warstave:
2 profiles
Range: -, Str +2, AP 4, Melee, Rending, Two-handed
Range: 24, Str 4, AP 4, Assault 2, Strike down

Hyperdermis:
Pariahs wear a unique type of armor loosely based upon necrontyr armor of old. Capable of immediately reacting and adjusting to changes within and without it, the hyperdermis acts not only as armor, but a mobile life support system, something these fleshy hosts desperately need as the body continuously attempts to reject the necrontyr essence. Grants FNP, however on a roll of 1 when rolling for FNP, the hyperdermis can no longer keep up with the flesh's lethal reactions and the Pariah model is immediately removed from play.

Abominable Presence:
Enemy units with a model within 12” count as having leadership 7, unless it would normally be less than that.
In adition, any psyker (friend or foe!) within 6” of a Canoptek Pariah at the start of their turn must pass a morale check or fall back along with their squad. If the psyker is in combat at the time, he instead is counted as having WS 1.


Whatcha guys think?

I'm with skoffs I think we've just about cleared this. King Pariah I3 crons doesn't fit and as the last line of defence for a tomb T4 is a little small. So Kingsley/Skoffs what was your final plan with options?

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I'm with skoffs I think we've just about cleared this. King Pariah I3 crons doesn't fit and as the last line of defence for a tomb T4 is a little small. So Kingsley/Skoffs what was your final plan with options?

Well my variation was based on cryptek's attempts to reverse the biotransference not canoptek defence systems. Just posting what my idea was from page 2 in a bit more detail.

Oh yeah true duh. Well when you put it that way it is an idea, just the consensus seems to be going to the Canoptek version. Ah well, I liked your idea just not everyone did

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
Oh yeah true duh. Well when you put it that way it is an idea, just the consensus seems to be going to the Canoptek version. Ah well, I liked your idea just not everyone did

Meh, Okee doke. Though if I may, Pariah doesn't exactly sound like a fitting name for these canoptek constructs.

I take your point. Perhaps Canoptek Sentinels? Canoptek Guardians? Open to ideas

 Mitranekh the Omniscient wrote:
I take your point. Perhaps Canoptek Sentinels? Canoptek Guardians? Open to ideas

Sentinel is what I wanted to go for initially, but FW has the Tomb Sentinel (which is a canoptek construct) so a little iffy on that name.

The Pariah is an elite, correct?

Also, the name Canoptek Sentry comes to mind, if that's what their fluff is now, although Sentinel sounds better.

Canoptek Sentinels would be perfect... if it wasn't for the fact that the name is probably too close to Forge World's new Stalker variant from IA12 (Canoptek TOMB Sentinel).
Pity, as that name would have fit the fluff perfectly.

Hmm, "Guardians" seem like they're stepping on the toes of Lychguard, too.

Hmmmm, more thinking required...

 skoffs wrote:
Canoptek Sentinels would be perfect... if it wasn't for the fact that the name is probably too close to Forge World's new Stalker variant from IA12 (Canoptek TOMB Sentinel).
Pity, as that name would have fit the fluff perfectly.

Hmm, "Guardians" seem like they're stepping on the toes of Lychguard, too.

Hmmmm, more thinking required...

I think the problem is that the fluff. There are already 3 canoptek units that "guard tombs," Tomb Stalkers, Tomb Sentinels, and Canoptek Wraiths.

Holy poop, guys, I just had an idea.
(Now bear with me, as this deviates from the initial idea a tad much, but I think it could work):
Okay, so.
We've got these Canoptek guard statues, yes?
They sit there unmoving until something comes in, then pounce.
...
like a guard dog.
...
or guard CAT.
(reasoning: Necrons are basically Space Tomb Kings... well where are their Sphinxes?)

Canoptek Sphinx - 80pts

WS 4
BS 4
S 5
T 5
W 1
I 2
A 2
Ld 10
Sv 2+
Composition: 2 Canoptek Sphinxes
Unit Type: Beast
Wargear: Phase Talons, Sempiternal Weave
Special Rules: Fearless, Infiltrate, Acute Senses, Rage

Options:
Up to 4 more Canoptek Sphinxes ... 40pts/ model
Any Canoptek Sphinx may take a Particle Incinerator ... 5pts/ model
Any Canoptek Sphinx may take a Gloom Projector ... 15pts/ model

Phase Talons:
Range: -, Str as user, AP 2, Melee, Fleshbane,

Particle Incinerator:
Range: 12" Str 5, AP 4 Assault 1

Gloom Projector:
-1 LD to all enemies withing 12". Psykers (friend or foe!) within 6" at the start of their assault phase must pass a morale check or fall back along with their unit. If locked in combat they are instead WS 1.

(... basically, just think Ravage, from Transformers).

This way, we have our anti-psyker role that Pariahs used to fill, but faster movement, so we can get them where we need them sooner, and without having yet another Lychguard/Praetorian lookalike (yes, I know everybody really liked the old Pariahs, but admit it, if we fix Lychguard, we don't really need more Warscythe wielders). Plus, this way, the whole "Canoptek constructs look like animals" thing still remains intact.

That, that is GENIUS! Brilliant shout, not too OP and do exactly as we discussed. Great call, I agree with the Sphinxes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think we've covered everything now guys except fluff and fine details eg Traits for characters

I propose we put all of the Forge World Necron units into the Fandex as well (most of them will probably not need any adjusting).

a massive Metal cat should be 2 Wounds though, for +5 ppm IMO

Not gonna lie, I sort of got a huge laugh out of the use of Sphinx. But I guess it's fitting if you want to stick with egyptian themed crons.

I'm a bit iffy with the Sphinx as it makes crons seem just that little bit too much 'Tomb Kings... In Sphess!'

Also Sphinx makes me feel like they would go on win endless riddles...

Again, possibly just me being stubborn... Lol

I have to say, judging by what I've read in this thread, this 'fandex' thing is ridiculous. You're taking one of the consistently strongest codexes and buffing it, for only very minor points increases here and there. Wanting to have 6 really great Warlord Traits? Wanting to give all units in a 36" radius a +1 to RP? Wanting to give all units within a 24" radius ATSKNF? That's just silly. I won't even get into the suggestion of the 36" bubble of twin-linked everything.

There are NO new codexes that have 6 perfect warlord traits. I didn't see a single suggested warlord trait that wouldn't be awesome to have, and that aren't better than any other warlord traits in any other book.

This isn't at all realistic, and isn't fitting with 6th edition's trend of having non-overpowering codexes like CSM, Daemons, DA, etc.

And paying 5 or 10 points more for a model, then massively buffing them isn't "balancing" anything. You think every model in a codex should be perfect? That'd make the codex even more overpowered.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'm a bit iffy with the Sphinx as it makes crons seem just that little bit too much 'Tomb Kings... In Sphess!'

Also Sphinx makes me feel like they would go on win endless riddles...

Again, possibly just me being stubborn... Lol

Well, you aren't wrong... heck, I would use the TK Necrosphinx model model for this Canoptek Sphinx. Tomb Kings in SPAAAAAACE indeed.

 Iron Dragon wrote:
I have to say, judging by what I've read in this thread, this 'fandex' thing is ridiculous. You're taking one of the consistently strongest codexes and buffing it, for only very minor points increases here and there. Wanting to have 6 really great Warlord Traits? Wanting to give all units in a 36" radius a +1 to RP? Wanting to give all units within a 24" radius ATSKNF? That's just silly. I won't even get into the suggestion of the 36" bubble of twin-linked everything.

There are NO new codexes that have 6 perfect warlord traits. I didn't see a single suggested warlord trait that wouldn't be awesome to have, and that aren't better than any other warlord traits in any other book.

This isn't at all realistic, and isn't fitting with 6th edition's trend of having non-overpowering codexes like CSM, Daemons, DA, etc.

And paying 5 or 10 points more for a model, then massively buffing them isn't "balancing" anything. You think every model in a codex should be perfect? That'd make the codex even more overpowered.

ATSKNF was a 12" radius...


Also, I was thinking, maybe combine Sphinxes (?) and Pariahs into one unit, like maybe:

Canoptek Wardens

Canoptek Pariah
WS 4
BS 4
S 5
T 5
W 2
I 2
A 1
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Canoptek Sphinx
WS 5
BS 4
S 5
T 4
W 2
I 2
A 2
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Composition: 0 (see below)
Unit Type:
Canoptek Pariah are Infantry
Canoptek Sphinxes are Beasts
Wargear:
Canoptek Pariah - Pariah Warstave, Sempiternal Weave, Gloom Projector
Canoptek Sphinx - 2 Hyperphase Talons, Sempiternal Weave
Special Rules:
Canoptek Pariah - Fearless, Adamantine Will, Relentless
Canoptek Sphinx - Fearless, Relentless, Infiltrate, Acute Senses, Rage

Options:
Up to 10 of the following:
Canoptek Pariah...45pts/ model
Canoptek Sphinx...45pts/ model

Any Canoptek Sphinx may take:
A Gloom Prism...10pts
A Particle Incinerator...5pts



Pariah Warstave:
2 profiles
Range: -, Str +2, AP -, Melee, Armourbane, Two-handed, Ignores Armour Saves
Range: 12", Str 5, AP 5, Assault 1, Gauss

Gloom Projector:
Enemy units with a model within 12” count as having leadership 7, unless it would normally be less than that.
In adition, any psyker (friend or foe!) within 6” of a Canoptek Pariah at the start of their turn must pass a morale check or fall back along with their squad. If the psyker is in combat at the time, he instead is counted as having WS 1

Phase Talons:
Range: -, Str As User, AP -, Melee, Ignores Armour Saves, Fleshbane


Fluff:
The Necrons have made many constructs to guard the halls of their tombs. In their inert state, they seem to be little more than statues, but to think of them as such is not a light mistake.

When activated, Canoptek Sphinx stalk the many halls of the tomb complex, searching for they prey. Once located, the Canoptek Sphinx will give chase, only stopping when their prey is destroyed, has fled the tomb or an even great threat appears.
To face one Canoptek Sphinx is frightening, but to face a whole pack is to face certain death in the eye. Their Phase Talons rip effortless through all but the strongest armour, and flesh seems to dissolve upon contact.
Canoptek Pariah are slower than their Canoptek Sphinx brethren, but their weapon is even more deadly. Although flesh does not instantly dissolve upon contact with its blade, the Pariah Warstaves can carve the barrel off a leman russ, or carve a hole in the side of a bunker. Psyker magiks have a hard time working upon Pariahs, their form built to resist such forms of attack.
If that wasn't enough, the Gloom Projectors built into their frames, the third 'eye' on their forehead, radiats a sense of menace and horror, that reminds their foes of their mortality... etc. (ran out of time to write, will finish later )

Actually seen as we're still on the Pariahs I had a suggestion TM 4oursword
Necron Pariahs
Creations of a mad Cryptek, Pariahs are grotesque fusions of human and Necron. Armed with Bale Staves, they stride into battle with reflexes no Necron could ever hope to achieve. However, this human dexterity comes with a price; human vulnerability. Pariahs are not the fearless automatons that other Necrons are, and are susceptible to many of the doubts and fears found within humanity. As a result, they are not the implacable warriors that the rest of their dynasty are. Regardless of this, the soullessness of these mute warriors emits a terrifying aura that terrifies even the boldest warrior and even scares the Phaerons and nemesors to a degree. It also creates a void in the Warp that renders the magicks of the living useless

Pariah (Pts tbc; I think 40-50)
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
4 4 4 5 1 4 2 8 3+

Wargear; Balestave, Gloom Prism

Rules; Soulless, Stubborn

Balestaves Balestaves are long bladed staves that incorporate a gauss flayer. In the shooting phase the Pariah mayfire the balestave as a gauss flayer. In cc it has the following profile;

Range Str AP Rules
Melee User 3 Soul Blaze (open to change on that)

Soulless To be in the presence of a Pariah is to know true fear. These beings have bargained away or otherwise lost their humanity, and all species regard them as abominations to life. Even fellow Necrons cannot tolerate being in close proximity to them for very long. All non-Pariahs (friend or foe!) within 6" have a -1 penalty to Ld WS and BS (that may be a bit much) and all Psykers within 6" may not cast psychic powers.

What do you think? Tbh I'm thinking the sphinx this is a tad now and not very... Cron imho.

Thanks for posting those, I'm interested to see how people react to them. Agree that Soulless is a little OP at present though.

 Iron Dragon wrote:
I have to say, judging by what I've read in this thread, this 'fandex' thing is ridiculous. You're taking one of the consistently strongest codexes and buffing it, for only very minor points increases here and there. Wanting to have 6 really great Warlord Traits? Wanting to give all units in a 36" radius a +1 to RP? Wanting to give all units within a 24" radius ATSKNF? That's just silly. I won't even get into the suggestion of the 36" bubble of twin-linked everything.

There are NO new codexes that have 6 perfect warlord traits. I didn't see a single suggested warlord trait that wouldn't be awesome to have, and that aren't better than any other warlord traits in any other book.

This isn't at all realistic, and isn't fitting with 6th edition's trend of having non-overpowering codexes like CSM, Daemons, DA, etc.

And paying 5 or 10 points more for a model, then massively buffing them isn't "balancing" anything. You think every model in a codex should be perfect? That'd make the codex even more overpowered.

This.
This is exactly what we needed to hear: an outsiders opinion.
Creating in a vacuum leads to problems, and here we finally have someone pointing it out.

I keep trying to stress,
we can't just bump up prices and expect that fixes everything.
we HAVE to reduce the overall effectiveness of these overpowered units!
then we can focus on buffing the crappy units.
but above all, NO PERFECT UNITS.
having everything in a category be "decent" should be our aim, with no one specific unit standing out as the "must take" (and definitely nothing that dominates over its peers in other codecies *coughOLD-MONOLITH/PARIAHScough*)

To Iron Dragon (and to any any other non-Necron players out there), help us out here, man.
What needs to happen to bring the codex to a more balanced level like that of CSM?


First obvious one would be Warlord Traits.
You're completely right. Having all six be good really isn't fair. There has to be some "meh, I guess it's okay..." ones as well as "all right! I got the REALLY good one!"

And we have to be careful about effective range.
We are MAINLY 24 inch shooting. We have to limit our 36"+ shooting AND effects. (no ATSKNF. It doesn't fit).

Tau have warlord traits that are all good. Please, yes, let's make sure your army has a chance of getting some gakky trait that doesn't go with the army. The point of randomness is that it balances getting great traits with getting bad ones, which is fething stupid. If you have a table that has only good traits, you're never stuck with something you don't want or need. I'm not saying make them all awesome, just make them all decent. Like instead of a 12" fearless bubble, make it stubborn, etc.

Also, new question: why are overlords and destroyer lords WS and bs 4? Surely their skills were better than that, even though they are slower robots. Obyron proves that they can be better.

 McNinja wrote:
Tau have warlord traits that are all good. Please, yes, let's make sure your army has a chance of getting some gakky trait that doesn't go with the army. The point of randomness is that it balances getting great traits with getting bad ones, which is fething stupid. If you have a table that has only good traits, you're never stuck with something you don't want or need. I'm not saying make them all awesome, just make them all decent. Like instead of a 12" fearless bubble, make it stubborn, etc.

Also, new question: why are overlords and destroyer lords WS and bs 4? Surely their skills were better than that, even though they are slower robots. Obyron proves that they can be better.

Obyron isn't a Lord, he's a bodyguard.

Working more on this, because I can

Canoptek Wardens

Canoptek Pariah
WS 4
BS 4
S 5
T 5
W 2
I 2
A 1
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Canoptek Sphinx
WS 5
BS 4
S 5
T 4
W 2
I 2
A 2
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Composition: 0 (see below)
Unit Type:
Canoptek Pariah are Infantry
Canoptek Sphinxes are Beasts
Wargear:
Canoptek Pariah - Pariah Warstave, Sempiternal Weave, Gloom Projector
Canoptek Sphinx - 2 Hyperphase Talons, Sempiternal Weave
Special Rules:
Canoptek Pariah - Fearless, Adamantine Will, Relentless
Canoptek Sphinx - Fearless, Relentless, Infiltrate, Acute Senses, Rage

Options:
Must include up to 10 of the following:
Canoptek Pariah...45pts/ model
Canoptek Sphinx...40pts/ model

Any Canoptek Sphinx may take:
A Gloom Prism...10pts
A Particle Incinerator...5pts



Pariah Warstave:
2 profiles
Range: -, Str User, AP -, Melee, Armourbane, Two-handed, Ignores Armour Saves (Basically the old Warscythe - ignoring ++ saves)
Range: 12", Str 5, AP 5, Assault 1, Gauss

Gloom Projector:
Enemy units with a model within 12” have -1 Ld
In addition, any psykers treat a model armed with a Gloom Projector as having the Fear special rule.

Phase Talons:
Range: -, Str User, AP 3, Melee, Shred

More balanced?

Come on, man.
Are you telling me anyone from another army wouldn't look at this and say this isn't broken?

The rule of thumb should be,
More "huh, that's not too bad"
Less "Holy hell, that's f'ing AWESOME!"

the reason I tried to suggest the Sphinx was to provide an alternative anti-psyker role to the OPed-ness that was the Pariahs (smaller squads, but faster with slightly different abilities. like an anti-psyker version of Fenris Wolves). Combing them both into the same unit just drives the OP levels into the stratosphere.

I get what you mean, hmm...
So either both as separate units OR just 1, not both.


Minus the whole combined=OP, are the Pariahs more balanced, or are they still too good?

I know I am late but.... why was there a warlord trait giving And They Shall know no fear? My apologies but no. I play Chaos Space Marines. I have to pay extra to get ld10 on a single unit that has to sacrifice himself every time I get in CC, pay 25 points for fearless, or put a chaos lord in the squad to give them fearless. ATSKNF is far too good (plus it has been a loyalist Space Marine thing). Heck, it even laughs at fearless. Fearless has some benefits but any weapon with terrify (Eldar now have some!) invalidates fearless but noooo not and they shall know no fear. On top of that, it makes it even more difficult to break necrons in close combat where many have claimed they are terrible in. My apologies for being a bit exasperated.... just Chaos Space Marines xD (curse those loyalists! +1 point for that and the other good special rule they get!)

Anyways good luck balancing it all. Oh, and, hopefully I haven't missed it, if so please direct me, but how do you plan to fix MSS (too good)? And what about the Monolith (heard it isn't a good pick)?

Yeah, updated Pariahs are looking better, but they need to be 1W (T5 2+ saves with 2W is too much).
Psykers treating Gloom Projector carriers as having Fear is a good idea.
Warstave looks fairer, too. Might even be able to make it AP 4 for shooting.
With the changes to Ghost Arks (allow any infantry on board), or even dropping them off via Nightscythe (they're Elites, I'm assuming, so would be eligible to take it as a transport under the new restrictions), these guys could be decent.
Not sure about Adamantine Will, though. Relentless doesn't seem necessary, but if we're just giving it to all Canoptek units, then whatever.


Also,

 StarTrotter wrote:
And They Shall know no fear.
it has been a loyalist Space Marine thing.
EXACTLY.
No ATSKNF for Necrons.

how do you plan to fix MSS (too good)?
Reduce the test to 2D6, with reroll on successful pass (math says this will still be good, but not OP)

And what about the Monolith (heard it isn't a good pick)?
Mitigate deep strike mishaps, make the gun slightly more useful... possibly make more resilient to melta, but not sure on that one yet