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sorry for the bad picture, but can someone tell me what i'm doing wrong, i'm attempting to make this crome (its still a WIP) but i would like any suggestions. also, heres a better picture

Almost impossible to tell since the focus is on your shirt and the marine is out of focus. Try and get a picture in focus and maybe somebody will be able to lend you some help.

potatosack wrote:
but can someone tell me what i'm doing wrong

Trying to take pictures.

In all seriousness, this happens often on these forums so let this be a lesson to anyone who reads it: It is impossible to to reply to "what am I doing wrong/what do you guys think/can I get some C&C please?" when the provided picture is comically out of focus. You are wasting your own time by uploading pictures of this quality and expecting people to give you real, honest feedback short of "that picture is terrible."

youre attempting the sky/earth thing? unless youre a master blender with days/weeks/months to make it look convincing i wouldnt suggest it.

kb305 wrote:
youre attempting the sky/earth thing? unless youre a master blender with days/weeks/months to make it look convincing i wouldnt suggest it.

Then how does one go about being able to make that effect? By not starting off first and actually attempting to practice to improve their skills at that effect?

@potatosack, check out http://wappellious.blogspot.com/ James Wappel has a few blog posts showing off some chrome work, it might help you out to see the effect and have a reference to look at (how the reflection looks on various surfaces, angles, etc). Also, do work on taking better pictures, it makes it easier for people to provide feedback if they can easily see the subject. Don't take with flash, have good lighting and take as close a picture without losing any focus.

ah, thanks for all the advice guys, i guess i'll stick to doing other stuff, work on blending and stuff

For future reference when taking pictures, Place a less (preferably non-) reflective material under/behind the model. It should be a neutral color that is not close to any of the major colors in the model. That should help with the focus and the light will not blur out parts of the model.

Before you try doing something like the sky/earth reflection, be sure your blending is spot on.

As far as the model itself goes, it's a little far away for me to tell anything. If you can get a closer picture, it would help give better advice.

i really dont want to be an a****** but #1: you need to get much much better when it come to painting.

i was looking throu your gallery and you are miles away from painting effects like this.

as long as you are not a very talented painter this takes a lot of practice and you need to master a lot of techniques.

work on your blending(and or feathering),look at pictures for references(real and miniatures) and practice a lot. also its hard to see on your pics, but the coverage looks pretty poor.

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:
i really dont want to be an a****** but #1: you need to get much much better when it come to painting.

You may not want to be one, but you've succeeded quite nicely in any case.

OP - the only way to improve is to try things that are outside of your current skill level and get out of your comfort zone. True, it does look like you are a new painter, but if you don't take risks and try new things, you will never get better. I applaud you for trying something as difficult as this. You would be amazed how fast risk-taking painters can improve. I know a guy who was an absolutely awful painter when he first started who went on to winning painting competitions inside of a year because he dared to try the impossible and stuck with it.

Pretty much what Xeno said.

The trick is to always keep pushing yourself. There are loads of decent blogs and videos teaching new techniques, get some cheap models from eBay and just practice. Saves you wasting your army models when you aren't going to be happy with the result first time.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:
i really dont want to be an a****** but #1: you need to get much much better when it come to painting.

You may not want to be one, but you've succeeded quite nicely in any case.

Being honest, especially bluntly, does not make someone an a-hole. That is the problem with American society these days: people are heaped with praise from and early age and anything else is "being mean." I see it happen on these forums all the time; newish painter posts pictures, they aren't universally praised, feelings get hurt. Not everyone gets a gold star for participation in the real world.

OP, That being said, can you paint sky-earth metallic? No, but most people can't. I would definitely put it in the upper-echelon of high level skills; very, very difficult to do. I'm not saying to not push yourself and try new things, but I would master the basics of blending. Keep trying, don't give up, and you can always improve.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:
i really dont want to be an a****** but #1: you need to get much much better when it come to painting.

You may not want to be one, but you've succeeded quite nicely in any case.

Being honest, especially bluntly, does not make someone an a-hole. That is the problem with American society these days: people are heaped with praise from and early age and anything else is "being mean." I see it happen on these forums all the time; newish painter posts pictures, they aren't universally praised, feelings get hurt. Not everyone gets a gold star for participation in the real world.
.

Dude, whatever. I'm the last person to sugar coat anything. But I will not be an donkey-cave simply for the sake of being an donkey-cave. The guy basically said "you suck, give up". How is that constructive in any way?

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:
i really dont want to be an a****** but #1: you need to get much much better when it come to painting.

You may not want to be one, but you've succeeded quite nicely in any case.

Being honest, especially bluntly, does not make someone an a-hole. That is the problem with American society these days: people are heaped with praise from and early age and anything else is "being mean." I see it happen on these forums all the time; newish painter posts pictures, they aren't universally praised, feelings get hurt. Not everyone gets a gold star for participation in the real world.
.

Dude, whatever. I'm the last person to sugar coat anything. But I will not be an donkey-cave simply for the sake of being an donkey-cave. The guy basically said "you suck, give up". How is that constructive in any way?

He didn't say that he sucks or that he should give up. Was he blunt? Yes, but he went on to say that his is a high level skill (it is) and takes a ton of practice to get right (it does). He also gave a few tips on what to do to improve (practice and use reference photos, both sound advice) and to keep trying.

As far as painting goes, SENMM (Sky, Earth Non-Metallic Metal) is a very advanced painting technique. It really requires the entire figure to be painted first b/c it gives the impression of the atmosphere that it is composed in (reflection and lighting wise). That said, I think the execution is "not" bad but I find the difference between not bad and Amazing to be a lot of practice and study. Specifically on how light plays off of reflective objects. you have all your horizon lines at the same spot across the figure. With a complex object in chrome such as the Space marine, the reflectiosn would change based on the positioning of the limb to the horizon. This would serve to stretch or compress the Sky or Earth sections respectively.

I hope this make sense. For an entire army of marines in SENMM I thing you are crazy...but good luck pulling it off. Look at the light play on these surfaces and they are essentially flat but with the position of the light changing. You have to pull that off across the figure. Each limb you've painted looks like it has a different, forward light source.






Notice how the horizon is different in different sections on this SENMM miniature.

I have absolutely no idea, however I found this tutorial...

http://chestofcolors.com/how-to-paint-nmm-chrome-tutorial-wolf-priest/

And also this dude...
http://www.coolminiornot.com/254907

i don't think you are doing anything wrong. practice makes perfect. 10,000 hours of practice. if you average 3.5 hours of practice a day then it will take you about 8 years to be at a golden demon level. So keep studying, keep asking questions and talk to pros. I think you could work in a visit to europe and meet some golden demon / slayer sword winners as ask them for a tutorial maybe try for an apprenticeship like uma thurman in kill bill or ralph macchio in karate kid part 1.

How do those chrome jobs look from different angles? That cyber dog is pretty darned sweet, but perhaps the effect is specific to a certain angle?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Being honest, especially bluntly, does not make someone an a-hole. That is the problem with American society these days: people are heaped with praise from and early age and anything else is "being mean." I see it happen on these forums all the time; newish painter posts pictures, they aren't universally praised, feelings get hurt. Not everyone gets a gold star for participation in the real world.

The real problem with society, at least the internet kind, is with how many people seem to think that being 'honest' somehow makes a comment less rude. It's entirely possible to give constructive criticism without being rude about it. How you choose to say something is quite often just as important as what you are saying.


Particularly where creative endeavours are concerned, it's a good idea to try to err on the side of caution, as it's very, very easy to cause unintended offense. And the last thing we want to do on this forum is to discourage hobbyists from sharing their work due to receiving uneccessarily harsh criticism.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:


The guy basically said "you suck, give up". How is that constructive in any way?

"The guy" didnt say that at all.

im just not going to tell him that its an awesome paintjob. he asked for advice and suggestions and being honest is the best advice.

i see this all the time in gaming clubs and on tornaments. people get praised for really poor paintjobs and never get better because they think their miniatures look awesome and thus dont have to learn new techniques.

its good that hes trying,but if you dont master techniques that are essential for a paintjob like this its just not going to happen

Personally, I don't have time to mess about with these high-level painting techniques like NMM or OSL. I want to get my stuff painted to a decent tabletop standard. If you have the time and inclination to try this sort of thing, more power to you. It is very high-level painting techniques, though and there's no short cut to doing it other than practice, practice, practice. I don't believe in giving praise where none is due. I don't praise my daughter unless she's done something that is praise worthy. I want her to work for and earn that praise rather than give her a sense of entitlement. Life in the real world is more often doing a thankless job and getting no recognition when you bust your hump on a daily basis and give the job your all. Could the responder have been more positive about it in his response? Possibly. If anyone other than the OP took offense, I say grow a tougher skin and don't take personal offense for the benefit of someone else.

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:
"The guy" didnt say that at all.

No, actually, you did.

I'm just not going to tell him that its an awesome paintjob. he asked for advice and suggestions and being honest is the best advice.

No, the best advice is actual, you know, advice. Rudeness couched as 'honesty'...? Not so much.

i see this all the time in gaming clubs and on tornaments. people get praised for really poor paintjobs and never get better because they think their miniatures look awesome and thus dont have to learn new techniques.

People should be praised for effort. It's a big part of encouraging them to do better. And, again, it is possible to offer constructive criticism without being rude about it. Suggesting techniques to try, colours to use, tutorials to check out... all of that is constructive criticism. 'You're not very good... get better at painting before trying this'...? Not so much.


Dakka's rule #1 (Be Polite!) applies just as much, if not more so, to the P&M section as it does to the rest of the forum. If you can not offer criticism in a way that follows that rule, I would suggest that you refrain from posting in this section.




So, about that NMM, eh?

Looking at the picture you provided, we can't tell if your blending is good or not. So we can't comment on whether or not it's blended nicely (which is the most important part of NMM.)

However, there is one glaring technical problem, and that is the thighs. The "horizon" is ALWAYS horizontal in NMM, and you have it vertical on the thighs. Take the effect on the thighs, and reverse it. As of right now, the horizon is wrong on the thighs. It looks right on for the rest of the armor.

Whether or not your skills are sound isn't possible for us to comment on without better pics, but as far as technique, fix the thighs. And then practice the same thing on ALOT of miniatures. If you do this to a whole squad, you'll learn alot by the 10th man. You'll find out what works and what doesn't. Keep at it, post pics for criticism, and learn from it.

PaintHammer wrote:
However, there is one glaring technical problem, and that is the thighs. The "horizon" is ALWAYS horizontal in NMM,....

This is not actually correct. Have a look at the hound that jgemrich posted, which is a brilliant example of SENMM at work.

On cylindical shapes, unless they are exactly vertical, the reflection runs along the cylinder due to the curve.

honestly you just need to practice practice practice practice and yet more practice!

googel how to paint nmm,or go to minaturementore.com,they have some really helpful purchase downloads.

dont get frustrated practice simple blending first and build your way to nmm,now a days its so over done though i almost always perfer those that use actual matalics to achive a metalic effet instead of nmm.

also last advice i can give dont GIVE UP!!also dont try so hard that your already discouraged yourself,your learning a new techniqe so pratice !

Edited by insaniak. This is not a negotiation. Please stick to the topic.

Crypto wrote:How do those chrome jobs look from different angles? That cyber dog is pretty darned sweet, but perhaps the effect is specific to a certain angle?

This is one thing I personally don't like about NMM in general, it's static. It looks great in pictures and on display models intended to be looked at from only one angle, but in reality it simply doesn't "dance" like a real metal object would as the light source or viewing angle changes.

Of course that's just my opinion, some people love NMM, and some of the SENMM even I think looks pretty cool on display models, not something I personally would bother with on a whole army (assuming I had the skill to do it which I openly admit I don't ).

insaniak wrote:

PaintHammer wrote:
However, there is one glaring technical problem, and that is the thighs. The "horizon" is ALWAYS horizontal in NMM,....

This is not actually correct. Have a look at the hound that jgemrich posted, which is a brilliant example of SENMM at work.

On cylindical shapes, unless they are exactly vertical, the reflection runs along the cylinder due to the curve.

Yeah. It's really tricky to figure out exactly how a horizon will look on curved objects, it usually won't run perfectly horizontal but it also won't run perfectly along the line of the cylinder. Check out some real chrome to get an idea just how complicated it is to emulate well...

http://www.schultzengineering.us/gallery/leonard.jpg

http://databikes.com/imgs/a/b/a/j/j/harley_davidson__softail_heritage_classic_flstci_black__chrome_2004_5_lgw.jpg

http://chivethethrottle.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/chrome-cars-920-26.jpg?w=920&h=614

http://s1.goodfon.com/image/290821-1920x1188.jpg

http://www.supercars.net/gallery/140722/2045/862782.jpg

Or even just look at a car which has a reasonably fresh coat of paint...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Classic_Black_Car_%282621421484%29.jpg

 HamHamLunchbox wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:


The guy basically said "you suck, give up". How is that constructive in any way?

"The guy" didnt say that at all.

im just not going to tell him that its an awesome paintjob. he asked for advice and suggestions and being honest is the best advice.

i see this all the time in gaming clubs and on tornaments. people get praised for really poor paintjobs and never get better because they think their miniatures look awesome and thus dont have to learn new techniques.

its good that hes trying,but if you dont master techniques that are essential for a paintjob like this its just not going to happen

I actually appreciate people being honest with me, although i will tell you that what you see in my gallery is pretty old, at least 6 months, so its not really a true representation of my current painting skills, i've gotten much better, here are some of my more recent models.