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quantity has a quality all its own

the imperial guard are puny humans no matter how you twist or turn it.
they are just regular humans, nothing special about them most of the time they are men and women just drafted into the guard.
their weapons might be inferior one on one to any other race their equivalent but they are used en masse.

high casualty numbers are to be expected in the imperial guard it doesnt mean they are incompetent nor that they are weak, it just means they are facing vastly superior technology in suffecient enough numbers to kill so many of guards.

atlervetok wrote:
quantity has a quality all its own

the imperial guard are puny humans no matter how you twist or turn it.
they are just regular humans, nothing special about them most of the time they are men and women just drafted into the guard.
their weapons might be inferior one on one to any other race their equivalent but they are used en masse.

high casualty numbers are to be expected in the imperial guard it doesnt mean they are incompetent nor that they are weak, it just means they are facing vastly superior technology in suffecient enough numbers to kill so many of guards.

The thing is that all of those super powerful and scary aliens, daemons and everything are rarely ever faced, you gotta remember that 99% of the time, the Imperial faces planetary rebellions with rebels armed with vastly inferior weapons

And they usually beat those rebellions.
The Imperial Guard are for the most part a professional and well equipped force.
Unfortunately for them they are in the 40k universe so they end up fighting all kinds of crap eventually...

"The enemy thinks they have the gods on their side. Let them think that. We have the tanks on ours."

Humans are rather insignificant individually in the 41st Millenium. As has been said, it's a simple fact. At the same time, they overcome incredible odds through determination, intelligence or plain single-minded bigoted zealotry. If anything, the Imperial Guard are an example of "Ain't humanity grand?" with mere every-day humans fighting alien murderbeasts and achieving victory no matter the cost.

Some regiments are poorly led and equipped, some exist on the cutting edge, and everything in between. There's no archetype for the Imperial Guard save for their own fragile humanity.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Drakka77 wrote:
I was still thinking of IG armor cause the artillery has range to spare and a bane blade or a leman Russ squadron on the battle field are nasty.

And then a Carnifex drops from DEEP SPEHSS and eats your tanks and picks it's adamantium tusks with your bones.

And it dies before it hits the ground thanks to Hydras

Hydras don't have interceptor so all they can do is stare at the Carnifex like derps before getting eaten.

Sure they are puny and individually insignificant. Seeing as I only play against IG - don't own any - I will speak about facing them.

If all I had to worry about was IG and even veterans, I would wipe the table each and every time. They are only S3 T3 and I3. A tactical marine is going to kill them as is a fleshgaunt which are pretty low on the totem pole of what I can field.

The problem is all the vendettas, manticores , and LR that they have. Because they can afford to field a lot of infantry AND all the specials, I am going to have a rough time dealing with the puny humans and ignore the other stuff.

The other problem is the numbers mean edge-to-edge IG, no maneuver it is going to be a head-on charge.

Invariably when I play the guard, I slaughter them in number of casualties but it is going to be 50-50 whether I can actually win the scenario. That is the strength of the guard.

I have read the fluff, so I am aware of how switched on the guard are, gak..their training and conditioning will be better than modern puny infantry school by a long shot considering that modern recruits have rights and all that pansy nonsense!

But they ARE puny in the strictest sense. Not stupid and not a pushover in a war because they are well trained and well armed, but certainly puny considering what they go up against.

Unaugmented humans are weak as piss when compared to every other race no matter how many push ups they do!

Well..except Eldar..but they are faster and more graceful. .so they would kick our asses as well.

Many have said it, but it bears repeating: Saying that guardsmen are just puny humans doesn't have to mean they are looked down upon. It's part of their appeal. It means you can sympathise with them, it means their bravery is far more significant when they stand and fight, even though they run away more than any other faction. It means they have to win by other means.

I hate the aesthetics of most IG models. I'm not a fan of horde or mechanised armies. I feel no need to plonk down more than three tanks. And even though I like artillery, I don't exactly need it. And yet the IG is my favorite faction. Because a bunch of guys with Lasguns being send into some god forsaken warzone unimaginably far from home. With no idea where they are and almost no idea why, fighting horrors we can't even imagine facing. That gets. Because it's awesome and horrible.


On the matter of human wave and "we have reserves" tactics. They are just a facet of the IG doctrine, but one of the more over the top and ridiculous ones at that. And like all armies, the background likes to highlight and exaggerate this element. Like Space Marines trolling other factions with over the top displays of heroic badass, like eldar skrewing everyone over with their deceit and trickery, dark eldar being ultimate SM freaks (mostly the S part at that), orks making things work because they believe it should, Tau being naive etc. etc. It's a part of WH40k grimdark and dark humor (a lot of background blunders aren't as bad when you remember that, in it's own way, WH40k has always been quite funny)

Looking deeper though, it's not as clear cut. Yes, the IoM tend to show a blatant disregard for human lives and human rights. And a high lord of Terra, an imperial gouvernor, a beaurocrat of the Adeptus Munitorum or a dogmatic Kommisar will be of the oppinion "If they loose, we'll just sent in another wave. We have reserves ".

This aditude will extend to a fair amount of IG officers and Space Marine leaders, whith some extreme cases like Chenkov and the Death Korps of Krieg. But many high ranks will not think that way. I doubt Creed considers his Cadians fodder. Straken and other Catachen officers (remember, they come from the rank and file) certainly don't. Dante of the Blood Angels and Grimnar of the Space Wolves seem to have a good oppinion of guardsman and value their lives.

There are countless worlds whose military send out regiments to the IG, all with their own tradition, mentality and doctrine. Some just send their criminals, poor and gutter skum offworld to die. Some are made of cavemen taught how to use lasguns lead byoffworlder who consider them little more than animals. Some are religious fanatics eager to sacrifice themself. Others are savvy skirmishers and guerilias, like the Tallarn and Catachans. Some come from proud warrior castes and knightly orders, valueing honor and skill at arms, not senseless sacrifice. Some are taught actual tactics and strategy. Some are sneaky gits, who weasel out of every attempt to use them as fodder. Some just want to go back to their families or make it to retirement, hopefully being granted a small strip of land on a newly freed agriworld. And believe it or not, they might have officers who share those dreams and want to keep as many of their men alive to see it fulfilledas possible.

 Kain wrote:
Hydras don't have interceptor so all they can do is stare at the Carnifex like derps before getting eaten.

Hydra batteries destroy spore pods before they get to the ground. The rules may not represent this, but that's a failure of the rules, not of the lore.

The Imperial Guard are just puny humans, since humans, in the grander scheme of things, are puny compared to most of the enemies they face.


It's just that most of you, as players, are even punier.

I don't think many people really do think this. The Guard have got some good fluff, especially from BL.

It feels to me like the whole "raaargh grimdark bury them under mountains of dead Guardsmen" thing doesn't have much to back it up. Even the Codex pays lip service to this, when even a casual scan of it or the IGs fluff shows they're one of the most versatile and heavily armed forces in the 40K galaxy, if not the most. They'd probably lose more than win if every commander was as bad as Chenkov.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Hydras don't have interceptor so all they can do is stare at the Carnifex like derps before getting eaten.

Hydra batteries destroy spore pods before they get to the ground. The rules may not represent this, but that's a failure of the rules, not of the lore.

Then you drop more Spores than they have shells!

 Kain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Hydras don't have interceptor so all they can do is stare at the Carnifex like derps before getting eaten.

Hydra batteries destroy spore pods before they get to the ground. The rules may not represent this, but that's a failure of the rules, not of the lore.

Then you drop more Spores than they have shells!

That's the only way that TYranids can win, not thorugh quality of troop[s, but quantity.

And frequently, they simply don't have enough.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Hydras don't have interceptor so all they can do is stare at the Carnifex like derps before getting eaten.

Hydra batteries destroy spore pods before they get to the ground. The rules may not represent this, but that's a failure of the rules, not of the lore.

Then you drop more Spores than they have shells!

That's the only way that TYranids can win, not thorugh quality of troop[s, but quantity.

And frequently, they simply don't have enough.

A single Trygon broke the back of Chaos at Forgefane. The Iron Warriors warsmith wasn't expecting for the Tremorbeast to open up a hole in his defenses and eat him, destroying the entire grand company in a few hours.

And the Doom of Malan'tai and Swarmlord would like to have a word with you.

 Kain wrote:
A single Trygon broke the back of Chaos at Forgefane.

You realize of course that I will take this as proof of the inferiority of the servants of Chaos, rather than proof of the Tyranids being strong ,right?

It should be noted that the Iron Warriors held off the Tyranids for quite some time, felling Bio-Titans, Harridans, Gargoyles and gods know how many lesser Tyranid creatures before the Tervigons (yes, plural) tunneled their way under the defense line, and appeared in multiple places to sever supply lines and isolate teams of defenders. The Tervigons themselves did not win the battle, not without the help of the hordes of Gaunts coming in behind them, and the presence of multiple Tervigons that allowed the Hive to attack isolated pockets of the IW en masse.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kain wrote:
A single Trygon broke the back of Chaos at Forgefane.

You realize of course that I will take this as proof of the inferiority of the servants of Chaos, rather than proof of the Tyranids being strong ,right?

^lol

In the Tyranids codex it has plenty of stories saying they invade planets with vast numbers of spore pods. That is just how most nids get to the surface.

Then the northern laser fell silent. Thousands of gargoyles had mindlessly thrown themselves into its throat, clogging the massive beam projector...

When Nids invade they do so in numbers.

da 'umies are whinin about tuff people fink dey are??

da boyz'll give'em sumfin to whine about. some Krumpin!

I think I can answer this. They are the weakest human variant in the universe of 40k.

Guardsmen may be humans but they're hardly puny. Just look at the models. They're about the size of space marines.

Remember that IG are the *only* human faction in the game (except for possibly Sisters, I'm not that familiar with them) - Space Marines are no longer truly Human.

Being weaker than a Space marine is like crying because your 20-year-old brother could beat you up when you were 5. It may be true, but it doesn't make you a wimp.

IG are well trained. Remember that, even Eldar Guardians - one of the closest to them statwise - have the advantage of each one probably having trained or fought (yes, even the Guardians) longer than any given IG member has been alive.

They are.


Humans aren't that puny when they fight other humans. Break out Biomutants, overly violent Space Fungus that never truly dies, Sadistic Space Elves, Giant, all-consuming Insects, and the creepy creatures of the warp, Humans kinda start looking pretty bad in comparison.

I'm not sure any amount of training is enough for that, but the Guard somehow do it.

whoever said that the failure is trying to compare reality to 40k is right. that being said the coolness of guard is that they are puny humans. the guard is just guys with wimpy lasguns fighting space monsters and sometimes they win. there is something epic and poetic about a normal-ass human facing down a tide of crazy angry Orks or evil fearless space robots. one on one a guardsmen is going to get crushed by almost every other basic troop in the game but if your butt-hurt that your five point guardsmen didnt punch out that eight foot tall 800 pound super space warrior then youre doing it wrong. I send waves (blobs) of guards men at other units knowing my troopers have one good fight in them until they are combat ineffective, thats just how it is and I like it that way.

One guardsman is puny. One hundred thousand of them is not. The vast majority of those puny guardsman do receive at least some military training anyways (and some of them have been militarily training since birth, like Catachans or Cadians). The Imperium has survived for ten-thousand years despite all the crap the galaxy throws at it, which is like, a thousand times longer than most empires and governments today have lived. So its main army must be doing something right.

Many IG regiments are trained while in warp transit to the warzone they will be deployed in. This is in addition to whatever training they receive on their home world.

When you factor that it, most IG have a longer training period than our modern military does. Excluding special forces.

TiamatRoar wrote:
One guardsman is puny. One hundred thousand of them is not. The vast majority of those puny guardsman do receive at least some military training anyways (and some of them have been militarily training since birth, like Catachans or Cadians). The Imperium has survived for ten-thousand years despite all the crap the galaxy throws at it, which is like, a thousand times longer than most empires and governments today have lived. So its main army must be doing something right.

The thing is that they're not always deployed 100,000 at a time; the typical regiment has about 2000-3000 men, and not all of them are combatants(support crews, crew chiefs, etc)

Though it is true that many guardsmen do go up against the worst horrors in the galaxy like the Chaos Space Marines, it should also be noted that such is a very rare occurrence
imagine this: meeting space marines is a very rare occurrence, now lets look at chaos space marines which have even lesser numbers

Really, majority of conflicts the IG gets into is no more worse then being stationed in Afghanistan or Somalia

"“The Legionnaire that scoffs at a lasgun has not charged across an open field against a hundred of them.”
- Maor the Scarred, Siege-Champion of the Scargivers

Well the IG really are the best in the galaxy because they are the only group in the game that has a chance at a reasonable sex life.

Space Marines: It is not even known if their man parts even work after they mutate from human to space marine. Maybe they dont even have weenies anymore, GW wont say.

Sisters of Battle: Seriously repress their urges and sublimate sexual desire into worshipping the emperor

Chaos Space Marines: Same as marines except for slaaneshi types which must be hermaphrodites

Eldar: Too much sex led to their whole civilization blowing up.

Dark Eldar: Bunch of demented perverts.

Orks: Asexual fungus, complete fail there.

Tyranids: They are animals so who cares.

Necrons: Gave up sex 60 million years ago.

So then, puny they may be, they are the only faction that can score on a Saturday night!

Tau can get some.

As can Space Wolves... Apparently.

JWhex wrote:

Well the IG really are the best in the galaxy because they are the only group in the game that has a chance at a reasonable sex life.
...
Dark Eldar: Bunch of demented perverts.
...
So then, puny they may be, they [humans] are the only faction that can score on a Saturday night!

I see a flaw here.