Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

But the devs are okay with players being repeatedly killed nad respawned as Orks so obviously that's not an issue to them.

Is this a comment about F2P Ork players vs paying Marine customers?

Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.

It's not a F2P model I can agree with.

 Melissia wrote:
Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.

It's not a F2P model I can agree with.

They would probably adapt it if didn't work in practice.

If it really went down badly, maybe they'd buff Ork Boyz so that three or two of them are worth one Space Marine?

Actually, I can see this fitting in extremely well with the current trend in F2P games and online shooters.

Massive zerg of F2P people vs a smaller 'elite' of paying players.

I think having the Orks as the F2P faction could result in a very fitting and fun rabble of semi-organised types.

However, cutting them off from advancement into the upper ranks of their faction without paying won't impress many of them. That should as least be an option as a F2Player there should be at least one faction that you can rise all the way up in...that only limits you in terms of cosmetic unlocks...not skills, vehicles, ranks or whatever else.

I don't think I'd be that impressed as a F2Player by somebody ordering me around simply because they pay a subscription. (People's sense of entitlement to free things aside.)

The idea that an elitiest clique of players will decide amongst themselves who gets the best toys isn't one that fills me with joy as a casual player.

It doesn't fill me with joy as a paying player either. Just because someone pays to be a leader doesn't mean that they're actually worthy of it. The entire scheme stinks of elitist trashiness.

 Troike wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yes. They're okay with new players who are just trying the game out being slaughtered endlessly by overpowered paying players and thus saying "this game sucks and it's pay to win" and leaving.

It's not a F2P model I can agree with.

They would probably adapt it if didn't work in practice.

Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.

Age of Reckoning taught us that much. Promising game, but they didn't clear up their feth-ups fast enough.

Minx wrote:Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.

There's no reason to adjust anything just because someone on the internet says they're wrong. Y'all act like it's a proven fact that Orks will get roflstomped when they didn't even reveal stats for them yet and we have no way of knowing how many players will actually end up playing what. There is only one way to find that out, and it does not include predicting the game's failure with every 2nd post you make, based on nothing but personal opinion.

They also mislead people as to what would be in the game.

The main problem was trying to mix PVP and PVE and then balance them. Adding huge empty wastelands inhabited by gangs of players actively avoiding each other...ach...the scenarios were fun at any rate.

I don't like the F2P or freemium model because I feel that if I am enjoying a game the folks responsible should be getting rewarded. I see it as more a free trial and if I like the game I tend to subscribe or drop a few quid on it.

While players have the option to drop a few quid here and there many seem to think it 'smart' that they don't. (Clearly missing that they are being freely given something.

On the other hand, free to play works for some companies and they turn a tidy profit. So if everybody is winning then "yay!"

But the proposed model is very skewed its like pitting WOW trial account users against full ones. If the F2P guys and gals outnumber the paying customers it could actually be a lot of fun...but the 'Boyz' only cap...will that make people pay a tenner to unlock being a Nob or make them look elsewhere?

I would pay the tenner but the sense of entitlement amongst many gamers right now leads me to believe that that game is going to have to be fantastic to make them consider it.

 Lynata wrote:

Minx wrote:Better to adjust it now as there won't be a game or player base left after they notice it didn't work out.

There's no reason to adjust anything just because someone on the internet says they're wrong. Y'all act like it's a proven fact that Orks will get roflstomped when they didn't even reveal stats for them yet and we have no way of knowing how many players will actually end up playing what. There is only one way to find that out, and it does not include predicting the game's failure with every 2nd post you make, based on nothing but personal opinion.

They said that a Space Marine is 5x as strong as an Ork.

I don't know why they set the ratio at 5:1. That seems way too high, especially for hand to hand combat.

I would say 3:1 is closer to the TT.

 Souleater wrote:
I don't know why they set the ratio at 5:1. That seems way too high, especially for hand to hand combat.

I would say 3:1 is closer to the TT.

I can see where they are coming from with the 5:1 ork to Marine ratio. A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war. They spend decades honing their arts of warfare ( war, war only WAR...war) Their stat line on the TT speaks to how they are elite warriors when compared to an Ork boy who mostly is undisciplined and erratic in skills. Before someone mentions their genetic abilities to just "know" how to do things, most boyz do not have more specialized roles other than "I likes ta chop/I likes ta shoot".

So I hear that Naughty Bear (a previous title of BE) didn't do so well. I'd expect to see many of the same executions in EC as here:



Well at least the work didn't go unnoticed by other studios. These kills use many of the same environmental mechanics and are suitably Grim Dark. I'd hope that we could do some of these things to each other, especially in instances!



Not to get too cliche, but this next one will probably serve as major inspiration because let's face it, it's the granddaddy of video game executions. I only hope that our executions will not take so long (and make us very vulnerable to combat). I did like Relic's mechanic of regaining hp by performing executions and I really wonder why they didn't do it in multiplayer (apart from vampiric weapons).



Sindel: Excellent inspiration to a Noise Marine, Ermac: Excellent inspiration to a Sorcerer, Reptile: Plague Marine. Anything that visibly and audibly twists, mutilates, and breaks bone in copious showers of gore would be an awesome candidate for a devotee of Khorne.

Also for more holy combat finishers, see Nightwolf's second execution and Smoke's overloading kill. These two I'd imagine would be great for holy warriors (especially SoB). If you need any more inspiration for dynamic kills, look here:



and here



Whatever you do, do not promise us this:



and deliver this:



Apart from all that, I really see a contradiction in what I've heard so far and what everyone is saying here. Migeul and BE have already explicitly expressed that this title is not Pay 2 Win, and yet everyone is already jumping ship screaming ratio's and absurdities they fear because we don't know anything other than short tidbits of less than two weeks of information. Really people, go jump in a lake and wait for some clarification instead of reaching a conclusion of convenience that SM's are just going to roflstomp everyone out of playing the game.

AWesker1976 wrote:
A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war.

An Ork is even moreso.

Space Marines are just abhumans-- modified humans, who are barely even their own species and cannot reproduce on their own. In contrast, Orks are an entire species literally designed for war from the ground up, allowed to evolve for hundreds of thousands of years of constant warfare-- they are designed so specifically for war that their method of reproduction involves warfare. War makes them stronger, quite literally, and their entire culture is around glorifying war and battle and killing and slaughter and getting to battle as quickly and constantly as possible. Hell, the idea of an epic stalemate against a massive enemy force is the Ork idea of heaven, where a Space Marine would consider it a loss. Peace is utterly alien to them in every way possible, they cannot even comprehend the idea of peace, never mind entertain the notion of it being desirable.

Orks also dominate the galaxy, holding more planets than any other species. Orks are so ubiquitous, their territory is measured in density rather than in battle lines. They are the biggest, most populous threat that any race in the galaxy faces-- even the Tyranids are not capable of putting up such a consistently high threat level over the entire galaxy.

God almighty, Naughty bear.

Don't bet too focused on "executions" and things like that. I prefer substance over style, shooting someone with my big shoota and having them fall over will be enough for me. No need for the over the top executions like in Space Marine. (such was the only way to heal damage in that game, there will be dedicated healers here)

If the devs are reading anything I say : DON"T TRY TO BE WORLD OF WARCRAFT!
* Use the dynamic form of combat such as in Planetside/TERA/Space Marine multiplayer/etc where you can't just sit in a corner and cast "player seeking" magic missiles that can turn corners and go through walls.
* Where unless your melee swing actually comes into contact with an enemy player it does nothing.

Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.

 Melissia wrote:

AWesker1976 wrote:
A space marine is a genetically engineered warmachine. Specifically born and bred for war and nothing but war.

An Ork is even moreso.

Space Marines are just abhumans-- modified humans, who are barely even their own species and cannot reproduce on their own. In contrast, Orks are an entire species literally designed for war from the ground up, allowed to evolve for hundreds of thousands of years of constant warfare-- they are designed so specifically for war that their method of reproduction involves warfare. Peace is utterly alien to them in every way possible, they cannot even comprehend the idea of peace, never mind entertain the notion of it being desirable.

Orks also dominate the galaxy, holding more planets than any other species. Orks are so ubiquitous, their territory is measured in density rather than in battle lines.

Even the most battle hardened, god of war given flesh can be killed if you dump a million orks on him. Orks win by weight of numbers alone. Their tactics are "run towards it and chop it". The average boy sacrifices tactics and skill for brutality and loud noises, .

An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio

 Melissia wrote:
Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.

And its popularity is going down, now that Blizzard has milked almost all of the potential money they could from the cash cow.

I say a big fat massive NO to dedicated healers. Absolutely not.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
I say a big fat massive NO to dedicated healers. Absolutely not.

I should be more specific. In Defiance there is a type of gun that has 2 fire modes ( normal for killin, alternate for healin )

Even 40K and it's GRIMDARK/Only War atmosphere uses dedicated healers (combat medics) such as apothecaries. You're prolly gonna have to just accept it.

AWesker1976 wrote:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
I say a big fat massive NO to dedicated healers. Absolutely not.

I should be more specific. In Defiance there is a type of gun that has 2 fire modes ( normal for killin, alternate for healin )

Even 40K and it's GRIMDARK/Only War atmosphere uses dedicated healers (combat medics) such as apothecaries. You're prolly gonna have to just accept it.

Apothecaries, Painboyz, IG medics, Sisters Hospitaller, you name it, there's a ton of dedicated healers out there.

AWesker1976 wrote:
An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio

An Ork by himself is fully capable of killing a Space Marine in close combat. And that's a regular Ork boy. A nob is more than capable of slaughtering Space Marines. A Kommando is capable of ambushing them and killing them off in stealth . And so on and so forth.

Space Marines are not gods upon the battlefield. Their only real advantage against Orks is their power armor and the fact that they bother to aim, making them more deadly at range in a one on one fight and a little bit tougher to kill. Orks are actually a bit tougher, biologically, than Marines are (Orks can survive things that would kill an Astartes), but wear worse armor.

And even the "dedicated healers" are themselves combatants. Sisters Hospitaller are fully trained in the same ways that all Schola Progenium graduates are, and Apothecaries are still Astartes. Painboyz are utterly frightening to behold, even to other Orks. That's how they got their name after all.

Really, the apothecaries, painboyz, etc of the game wouldn't be much different than the medics of, say... the Battlefield series. They have weapons and are capable of using them just as much as other soldiers, but they have special equipment to revive allied soldiers. Other kinds of soldiers have other advantages, and in this game that might be translated to Assault soldiers having jetpacks/teleporters, for example, and Scout soldiers being able to mark targets, and so on and so forth.

Who heals the Eldar and Chaos? Are only two races going to have healers?

Those examples are more like the assault class in Battlefield, they'll help save you, or bring you back from the edge of death, but are far from having a singular role on the battlefield of pumping you with a never ending supply of stims. We should not see Team Fortress Medics, or WoW priests/druids/shaman's/pallies

If anything, healing should be as slow as combat stims in SM where it may save you from a single bullet while under fire, but is only meant to get you back into the action faster after being seriously injured, and the only people allowed to carry them are these "healers".

My Chapter has done a Q&A with the dev team, come check it out:

http://battle-brothers.net/home/m/1897695/article/1584062

 DemetriDominov wrote:
Who heals the Eldar and Chaos?

Eldar are all psykers, I'm sure they can come up with something.

For Chaos, they have their equivalents, though they don't care much for such craft like other races do.

 Melissia wrote:
Indeed. Don't be WoW. Do not be WoW. Don't try to beat WoW. Just try to be the best goddamned game you can. WoW is an anomaly. Its success is irreproducible, and was purely based on luck and luck alone.

Not going to say that you are even close to the truth with saying that its success is based on luck, but they already said it's not going to be a MMORPG.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not going to say that you are even close to the truth with saying that its success is based on luck

Hey, live in denial all you want, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

AWesker1976 wrote:
Even the most battle hardened, god of war given flesh can be killed if you dump a million orks on him. Orks win by weight of numbers alone. Their tactics are "run towards it and chop it". The average boy sacrifices tactics and skill for brutality and loud noises, .

An ork by himself would be easy pickings, and is such represented in the 5:1 ratio

Though the problem with this is that you're assuming that the FTP population is going to be and remain at those numbers. If there's a slack in the number of FTP players, then you'll have an increase in FTP frustration as the game gets even harder for them. But like I said, were this to happen the devs would hopefully intervene.

[quote=Melissia 532969 5787414 27da9160de6cd8131c1fd8cf748cc033.pngAnd even the "dedicated healers" are themselves combatants. Sisters Hospitaller are fully trained in the same ways that all Schola Progenium graduates are

 Melissia wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not going to say that you are even close to the truth with saying that its success is based on luck

Hey, live in denial all you want, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

I'm pretty sure your opinion weighs more than that of people with a grasp of video games