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 DeffDred wrote:
I've never even seen an actual GW store.

After years of hearing about how terrible they are, I hope I never do.

Visit one just for the experience of being stalked and harassed during your entire visit.

Charax wrote:
Disruptive or not, I'm not really seeing how asking if it was a "hobby related discussion" was an appropriate question to ask, if he was moving the OP along for being disruptive, then he was being disruptive regardless of the subject matter of the conversation. Either they are being disruptive and should be asked to leave, or they are not.

Still, not like there's anything you can do about it. just another anecdote about how bad someone's experience in a GW was. At least this particular thread didn't make the common mistake of assuming it was some blanket dictat from Nottingham to all stores.

(oh and incidentally it was a hobby-related discussion, video games are a hobby)

And this, he said that, and I responded with "yes" because they are a hobby to me also, just like cycling and snowboarding(one of the rarer ones I wish I could go more often).

775B53 wrote:
things that did not happen: this story. Honestly, who believes this? I know you all think GW is the devil incarnate, but I really have a hard time believing any shop keeper would be this pedantic and juvenile. OP invented this story to smear GW, probably an associate of Chapterhouse or some such nonsense.

Okay...

Let me tell you tale from Manchester NH.

Empire Games (Closed)

I go there with my friend (the one I refer to all the time here on Dakka) to play with my brandnew SoB army. He plays Necrons. We both also sign up (and pay) to join a RT later that month.

After my first game, which I was crushed (fitting for a Necron vs Sob game) I didn't feel like using the army and was sad I didn't bring my Marines or Deathguard.

Luckily, a fellow named Jamie (perhaps one of the coolest gamers I've met) was there and was more than willing to show my friend the finer points of the game.

Another friend of mine had called me during the first game and asked if I could pick him up from a party that evening. I desided to just head out early and join the party.

Leaving my friend to continue gaming I made a few stops to get some errends done and drop my army off at home. I get to the party when it's winding down and pick my friend up.

So now friend #1 is at the store and friend #2 (and his GF) are drunk in my van. I get a call from #1, he's done gaming and needs a ride home.

So I go back to Empire Games and tell my friends "Just wait here, I'll be out in a sec". So I walk in and see #1 and Jamie picking up their armies.

We talk for a few minutes and then I hear the bell ring as someone walks in. It's friend #2... With a beer in his hand... (drunk people ).

The owner of the store sees the drink and begins SCREAMING "GTFO of here!" Then he grabs a baseball bat and runs at my frined, he then pushes him out the door.

Now this is where things get strange. He pushes my friend off his property and then strikes him in the head with the bat.

For those of you who don't know US/NH law he just assaulted my friend with a deadly weapon (because he aimed at the head, not the collar bone).

All this happened in front of me, Jamie and a child. The owner then runs backinside, locks all the door and starts ranting about how drunks are ruining the town and he's dropping F-bombs left and right.

He calms down slightly and then looks at me... "Is that a**hole with you?" "I'm his ride" I answer. "Then you can GTFO! Too!" Then pointing to friend #1, "You can GTFO too!!!!"

So calmly I look at friend #1 and say "Let's go man... Before (#2) kills this guy." So we leave. In the span of a few moments #2 has destroyed every potted plant in the parking lot.

We jump in the van and leave. I tell #2 he's an idiot. And my #1 and I spend the rest of the night gaming at my place.

So me and #1 come up with a reasonable plan. His friend is visiting from mass on the weekend and plans on blowing $500 at this "new gaming place".

#1 and I think if we walk in and each spend about $200 each and explain that the other friend (#2) isn't a model gamer (he had Tyranids but was not really into the hobby).

So we walk in the next day (the store extremely packed with kids playing magic and adults rockin' out to 40k) money in hand and apologies on our tounges.

We take about 3 steps and the bat comes out. The owner gets in my face (literally, violating my person space which resulted on him spitting on me, also assault) SCREAMING "GTFO".

He says I'm not the type of gamer needed and that I'm a disgrace to the game (every single adult in the store new me personally from Dakka Dakka FLGS, and most would disagree).

I say "Alright, let's go (#1) and spend our money elsewhere, to which he shouts "FU you never spent any money here anyway!" To which we laugh and say "Could we have our fees for the RT back then?"

Making him have to walk back around the counter, put his bat down and spend a moment giving us ourr money back. During this time I was looking at al the other people in the store (many are friends) shrugging.

I don't think the owner even recognised me as the guy who had been buying Confrontation models over the past few weeks.

Supposedly his store was closed a short while later...

Though I don't know the reason why I could imagine it had something to do with him swearing at kids for not tucking in their chairs and just basically being foulmouthed and angry all the time.

Interestingly enough I spoke to several police officers and state troopers about the bat issue. They all agreed that I should have gone to my friends rescue and beaten the owner to a pulp.

Once he pushed my friend off the property he had doen his job and should have walked back inside. (I should point out he had pinned him to a steel gate w/ nowhere to run).

When he struck my friend with a bat to the face he threw all reason out the window and my friend had the right to stab him to death in self defence (#2 often carries more than one blade on him).


TLDR: Dumb stuff happens in the nerd community. I don't doubt any of the stories I hear.

One time at band camp.....

 Ravenous D wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
I've never even seen an actual GW store.

After years of hearing about how terrible they are, I hope I never do.

Visit one just for the experience of being stalked and harassed during your entire visit.

For someone who reputedly worked for GW, you should know that the reason isn't simply the playbook but rather the fact that they use secret shoppers to report back on the employees and whether they're following that playbook.

775B53 wrote:
things that did not happen: this story. Honestly, who believes this? I know you all think GW is the devil incarnate, but I really have a hard time believing any shop keeper would be this pedantic and juvenile. OP invented this story to smear GW, probably an associate of Chapterhouse or some such nonsense.

Lay off the green. It is making you a tad bit paranoid.

 cerbrus2 wrote:

775B53 wrote:
things that did not happen: this story. Honestly, who believes this? I know you all think GW is the devil incarnate, but I really have a hard time believing any shop keeper would be this pedantic and juvenile. OP invented this story to smear GW, probably an associate of Chapterhouse or some such nonsense.

Lay off the green. It is making you a tad bit paranoid.

Disreguard him. His few posts are just attacks on Chapter House.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
I've never even seen an actual GW store.

After years of hearing about how terrible they are, I hope I never do.

Visit one just for the experience of being stalked and harassed during your entire visit.

For someone who reputedly worked for GW, you should know that the reason isn't simply the playbook but rather the fact that they use secret shoppers to report back on the employees and whether they're following that playbook.

Yeah and if you scored 100% you get a free trip to warhammer world. Which is nearly impossible, and after you sell them the box, the paint set, and white dwarf subscription it was pretty obvious.

How it used to be was "hey guys how are you doing?" "Is this your first time here?" then the follow up questions, most of the time they say "nah man just looking" which then you leave them be and just say "well if you need anything let me know".

Compare that to now:

"Hi welcome to games workshop my name is" "Do you know what we do here?" "what are you working on right now?" "what do you need to finish that?" "what paints do you need to finish that?" "what hobby tools do you need to finish that" "Do you need glue?" and this happens regardless of the customer saying "just looking". They either chase you out of the store or get your buy something, all well and good as they are sales men, but it makes anyone that gets chased out tell other people "Jesus Christ I just got hounded to death".

I'm just glad that I have the most atypical GW in the world that somehow manages to violate every rule in this playbook and make it pleasurable to visit.

If you go in there and always make a point of only buying a pot of paint or a brush then you can't really complain if you're just standing around chatting about random stuff with your friend. GWs are tiny, and if you are simply taking up space and time by chatting about games consoles then you're taking up wall space and cluttering up the store.

Most ridiculous part is, when the regular guy is there, I could (and HAVE) spent hours in there. We've talked about everything
From pokemon to horror movies. To more adult and down to earth conversations.

He asked me to bring my friends along to do some painting. We did. And between us spent over £200 in the process.

He made me want to go back because he created an atmosphere where i felt comfortable.

That business plan worked.

This one guys has backfired.

Please the few customers at the back of the store by expressing your authoritah!? Come on. Its an expensive hobby as it is. You dont have to tell me twice to leave your store.

To be fair, he didnt kick us out. But i wasn't for one minute going to stay in that particular store with that member of staff acting like he did.

No need.

4 Pages and still no word on a official complaint to the manager?

 BryllCream wrote:
If you go in there and always make a point of only buying a pot of paint or a brush then you can't really complain if you're just standing around chatting about random stuff with your friend. GWs are tiny, and if you are simply taking up space and time by chatting about games consoles then you're taking up wall space and cluttering up the store.

See above.
Ive spent there many a time.
Actually last time i bought a zoanthrope and the paints for him.
But you're right. FLGs from now on I guess.
Vallejo paints too?
And buy all my armies n codices off eBay?

Lets get one thing straight.
If they don't want my custom, I can still fulfil my hobby needs
At a better price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pities2004 wrote:
4 Pages and still no word on a official complaint to the manager?

I've said I will, next time he is in store.

 ascended_mike wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If you go in there and always make a point of only buying a pot of paint or a brush then you can't really complain if you're just standing around chatting about random stuff with your friend. GWs are tiny, and if you are simply taking up space and time by chatting about games consoles then you're taking up wall space and cluttering up the store.

See above.
Ive spent there many a time.
Actually last time i bought a zoanthrope and the paints for him.
But you're right. FLGs from now on I guess.
Vallejo paints too?
And buy all my armies n codices off eBay?

Lets get one thing straight.
If they don't want my custom, I can still fulfil my hobby needs
At a better price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pities2004 wrote:
4 Pages and still no word on a official complaint to the manager?

I've said I will, next time he is in store.

Yet I'll spend more in a GW if the place isn't cluttered up with people acting like it's a social club. If anything I think the GWs I frequent are too reluctant to kick out loiterers.

 BryllCream wrote:

 ascended_mike wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
If you go in there and always make a point of only buying a pot of paint or a brush then you can't really complain if you're just standing around chatting about random stuff with your friend. GWs are tiny, and if you are simply taking up space and time by chatting about games consoles then you're taking up wall space and cluttering up the store.

See above.
Ive spent there many a time.
Actually last time i bought a zoanthrope and the paints for him.
But you're right. FLGs from now on I guess.
Vallejo paints too?
And buy all my armies n codices off eBay?

Lets get one thing straight.
If they don't want my custom, I can still fulfil my hobby needs
At a better price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pities2004 wrote:
4 Pages and still no word on a official complaint to the manager?

I've said I will, next time he is in store.

Yet I'll spend more in a GW if the place isn't cluttered up with people acting like it's a social club. If anything I think the GWs I frequent are too reluctant to kick out loiterers.

I imagine if I worked in a store on my own all day I would get lonely.
The regular store manager usually gets deep into random conversations about all sorts. Probably because he's bored. But it keeps us coming back. And keeps us spending our cash in that store.

This time, we were stood around discussing 40k. Explaining our army lists.. conversions etc... someone brought up a non GW topic and the guy shut it down. What difference does it make, honestly?
Because they want monopoly on everything? Including conversations. I just don't even...

i find it quite amusing that instead of doing the grown up thing and speaking to the manager (or above) about this alleged outrageous behaviour you decided to instead go to the internet and bitch about them instead. Hmmmmm

Im also wondering what the massive fixation is that you had about some "customer" being female. So if the guy is talking to another guy thats a customer then thats ok, but if said customer is female its an issue?

Dude - give it a rest.

At this point I am a heck of a lot more likely to believe someone had a bad experience in a GW store than pretty much anything that you have to say.

Up to and including if you claimed that rain is wet.

If anything, you are confirming my nascent opinion that the store deserves to fail.

The Auld Grump

Wow, we have the internet tough guy story about how he could have legally murdered someone and been in the right. All is right with the internet, this thread is going places.

"Hi welcome to games workshop my name is" "Do you know what we do here?" "what are you working on right now?" "what do you need to finish that?" "what paints do you need to finish that?" "what hobby tools do you need to finish that" "Do you need glue?" and this happens regardless of the customer saying "just looking". They either chase you out of the store or get your buy something, all well and good as they are sales men, but it makes anyone that gets chased out tell other people "Jesus Christ I just got hounded to death".

Well for non-anti-social people, these are relevant questions which adults who interact with others might have.

Introducing yourself is good manners, Asking if I know what the store is about is totally reasonable. If I know what the store is about and say I play, it is reasonable to ask what I am working on, which I usually say "40k Orks" and what I am working on. (or they know what I am working on and ask me how it is coming alone")

I am constantly needing help with paints because I have old colors, I just ran out of bestial brown and wanted to get a exact match as well as another brown for a project and wanted to see what covered well. So he demoed some of the house browns for me to see as well as pulling out his conversion list. Super helpful to me.

Last time I was in, I got a helpful quick rust effect technique which actually worked well for me.

So that whole conversation takes maybe like 10 minutes, is actually useful to me as a consumer, is polite manners and I actually enjoy talking to people.

"just lookin'" is a very antisocial, rude response. What you call an unreasonable hard sell, I call good customer service. Even if it is 'their job' to be over the top in your opinion, the dude is doing his job, why heap scorn on the guy and get all bitter and bent out of shape over it? If talking about 40k or your modeling projects for 10 minutes makes you mad, you must practically flip tables if mcDonalds asks "do you want fries with that". I hear they have meds which can help out with that.

What you call 'good customer service' I call 'taking my business elsewhere'.

I despise the hard sell. A fair number of people do.

When I tell someone 'just looking' I am saying it because 'bugger off, I know what I'm looking for, you skunner' would be rude.

Whether I am browsing or getting something specific I know what I am doing, and do not want some prat nattering at me.

When I am looking for Tinny Tin then I am looking for Tinny Tin, not a box of foundation colors.

The Auld Grump

And if you are the secret shopper they get fired for not doing their job if they leave you alone. They get paid to bug you, just ignore them. Works for every place that I walk into that has sales people that can get overbearing.

But apperantly every GW except mine sucks...

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Dude - give it a rest.

At this point I am a heck of a lot more likely to believe someone had a bad experience in a GW store than pretty much anything that you have to say.

Up to and including if you claimed that rain is wet.

If anything, you are confirming my nascent opinion that the store deserves to fail.

The Auld Grump

you want a store to fail because someone on the tinterwebs said a stand-in staff memeber hurted his ickle feelings?

If anything you just confirmed your a hater for the sake of hating, thus anything you have to say on the matter is dedundant.

 d-usa wrote:
And if you are the secret shopper they get fired for not doing their job if they leave you alone. They get paid to bug you, just ignore them. Works for every place that I walk into that has sales people that can get overbearing.

But apperantly every GW except mine sucks...

No. If they continue then I will tell them off, and leave a complaint.

It may be corporate policy, but that is a reason not to do business with them, not a reason to put up with sales-yammer.

Honestly... I do not know how widespread that nonsense is in GW stores - I read plenty of reports of decent, friendly, and helpful GW stores, and some reports of the sales folks pulling out the sale speak....

And then I read some post by a white knight that convinces me that only the reports by the second group can possibly be correct....

More likely... there are a large percentage of friendly helpful clerks - but that when they face a new potential customer they have a script that they must follow, even if it costs them the sale.

This won't affect familiar faces (as much), but for a first time buyer?

Ah, well... as far as GW sales are concerned I am already a lost cause.

The Auld Grump, may the gods above and below forfend GW opening a store within mine locale.

*EDIT* To be clear - you are not the 'white knight' that I am referring to. I just wanted to mention that before accidentally insulting you.

I have no problem with insulting folks, but doing so accidentally lacks polish....

Yeah, I just have the one GW in our state and it is 5 minutes from my house. So I peek in there every now and then. So that is my own experience with GW.

The first manager was great, and the second one is great as well. But maybe that is just because he was trained by the previous good guy.

I don't claim that every GW is great. Just putting my own experience out there that not every GW sucks.

 d-usa wrote:
And if you are the secret shopper they get fired for not doing their job if they leave you alone. They get paid to bug you, just ignore them. Works for every place that I walk into that has sales people that can get overbearing.

But apparently every GW except mine sucks...

I can add three more to the list, so there are four GW stores total that don't suck, but I'm not going to say where they are to keep the TFG's from converging on them.

Anyway, I have nothing to say about the veracity or lack thereof of the OP's complaint, but the one time that I ever knew someone to get booted from a GW store, it was a guy who got into a heated rule dispute during a tournament and took a swing at his opponent, and got banned from the store. There were several other stores around, GW and otherwise, so I'd run into him from time to time at 40k themed things, and his favorite topic of conversation was bitching about what an donkey-cave the GW manager was, all the complaints he'd filed with GW corporate, and how the manager had singled him out for no reason at all.

He seemed completely oblivious to the fact that while he was doing this he was talking to people who'd actually been there and knew he was full of gak. It was a little weird.

Again, I want to make it very clear:

GW Rotherham is usually a very excellent. The guy running it is excellent.
This was one occasion. I wanted to see if anyone had experienced anything similar, and bring up the fact that I was outraged.

And I have *am* calling the manager of that store today to discuss it. I will be explaining the situation to him in it's entirety and it will be swept under the carpet.

I haven't come here to bitch and moan, I've come here to express my concern and seek advice from a community of people that may have shared similar experiences.

Please don't assume anything negative about GW: Rotherham, because it is the best GW I have had the pleasure of going to.

This was one occasion, with one GW staff member, who was very rude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lutharr101 wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Dude - give it a rest.

At this point I am a heck of a lot more likely to believe someone had a bad experience in a GW store than pretty much anything that you have to say.

Up to and including if you claimed that rain is wet.

If anything, you are confirming my nascent opinion that the store deserves to fail.

The Auld Grump

you want a store to fail because someone on the tinterwebs said a stand-in staff memeber hurted his ickle feelings?

If anything you just confirmed your a hater for the sake of hating, thus anything you have to say on the matter is dedundant.

As much as your posts are constantly driving digs at me on a personal level.
I most certainly do not want the GW rotherham store to fail in any way, shape or form.

Still, drop the attitude and discuss this as the grown up you keep claiming to be.

I was more shocked that he told me I wasn't allowed to discuss a non GW hobby related topic. That was the key thing for me.
Him telling me to leave if we were being too loud, that I could understand.
If I had been in 3 times like you (or someone else) had claimed, and still not bought anything, and was being too loud and annoying people.. I could understand.

But the underlining fact was that I was told I wasn't allowed to discuss a topic that was not "hobby related". And by "hobby related" he meant Games Workshop hobby related.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
Yeah, I just have the one GW in our state and it is 5 minutes from my house. So I peek in there every now and then. So that is my own experience with GW.

The first manager was great, and the second one is great as well. But maybe that is just because he was trained by the previous good guy.

I don't claim that every GW is great. Just putting my own experience out there that not every GW sucks.

The GW rotherham store certainly does not suck people. I'd suggest going there over any other (provided you live within range of it).

The sheffield one is actually closer to me, but I still go to the Rotherham one because the guy usually in that store is ace.

it would seem that the only grown up response would have been to jump on the bandwagon at the threads conception and join in on the witch hunt.

 ascended_mike wrote:
Most ridiculous part is, when the regular guy is there, I could (and HAVE) spent hours in there. We've talked about everything
From pokemon to horror movies. To more adult and down to earth conversations.

He asked me to bring my friends along to do some painting. We did. And between us spent over £200 in the process.

He made me want to go back because he created an atmosphere where i felt comfortable.

That business plan worked.

This one guys has backfired.

Please the few customers at the back of the store by expressing your authoritah!? Come on. Its an expensive hobby as it is. You dont have to tell me twice to leave your store.

To be fair, he didnt kick us out. But i wasn't for one minute going to stay in that particular store with that member of staff acting like he did.

No need.

Reminds me of the Great Southern Heresy scandal from my days. I was one of the Heretics btw. We lost a lot of good Managers/Full and Key Timers in those dark days I tell you.

 ascended_mike wrote:

I imagine if I worked in a store on my own all day I would get lonely.
The regular store manager usually gets deep into random conversations about all sorts. Probably because he's bored. But it keeps us coming back. And keeps us spending our cash in that store.

This time, we were stood around discussing 40k. Explaining our army lists.. conversions etc... someone brought up a non GW topic and the guy shut it down. What difference does it make, honestly?
Because they want monopoly on everything? Including conversations. I just don't even...

No but since you practically brag about buying bugger all in the store, then insist on standing there having a conversation about something that has nothing to do with the hobby, you can't whinge when he asks you to take it outside.

Lutharr101 wrote:
it would seem that the only grown up response would have been to jump on the bandwagon at the threads conception and join in on the witch hunt.

It's not like that at all. There is no witch hunt.
I am all for you defending the guy and explaining the situation. But if you re-read your posts, you've made more than one personal dig in my direction. Your attitude casts a shadow over the statements you make. I am all up for having a healthy debate but there is no need to get personal.

If me and the other 3 guys were far too loud, then I can understand. I would have apologised and quite simply shut up and moved on.
If he wasn't happy with me being in the store having not purchased anything. If he didn't like my attitude, my dress sense, my hair. If I smelled funny. If I looked aggressive and violent. If I was stepping mud through his store. If I had picked up too many models and he thought I might be out to steal something. If he thought I was a daemon from the eye of terror sent to drag him off and eat his face.

All of the above would be more viable than what he actually said.

But it wasn't about that, it was about being told we couldn't discuss this particular "non hobby related topic". That is the underlining fact of this entire experience for me. My friend says he neglected to help him find paints that he wanted too. All in all, it was a disappointing end to an otherwise "okay" visit.

If the regular store manager was there, (I try not to use his name but it has been mentioned) then it would have been an entirely different 45 minutes. Honestly, probably ending in me buying some Tau Fire Warriors...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BryllCream wrote:

 ascended_mike wrote:

I imagine if I worked in a store on my own all day I would get lonely.
The regular store manager usually gets deep into random conversations about all sorts. Probably because he's bored. But it keeps us coming back. And keeps us spending our cash in that store.

This time, we were stood around discussing 40k. Explaining our army lists.. conversions etc... someone brought up a non GW topic and the guy shut it down. What difference does it make, honestly?
Because they want monopoly on everything? Including conversations. I just don't even...

No but since you practically brag about buying bugger all in the store, then insist on standing there having a conversation about something that has nothing to do with the hobby, you can't whinge when he asks you to take it outside.

I think you need to re-read my posts.

 ascended_mike wrote:

I think you need to re-read my posts.

Okay.

ascended_mike wrote:Yes, I personally had told the GW staff member I wasn't buying anything today because I was skint. I say that EVERY SINGLE TIME I go into GW. Because firstly, I don't want them pushing sales on me. It irritates me. But every single time, I come out having bought something. Even if it is just one pot of paint..

GW don't survive on paint sales. If you're rude to the guys who work there (persistantly lying to someone), loitering around the store having personal conversations, then spending £2.30 on a pot of paint...GW probably don't need your custom. But they do need the custom of people who're put off by people like you.