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I'm flirting with the idea of a large squad of BP&CCW marines in with IoV who march up the board. Since you can't assault from Rhinos, why not just footslog it.
Probably give them flamer for overwatch or melta for tanks. Champ will have some kind of power weapon, I'm not sure.

Sounds good, but with overwatch and general enhancement of shooting its gonna be a rough go to try and get the majority of the blob there. CSM are expensive as well and aren't as easy a loss as say a couple Ork boyz, maybe if you mark them up Nurgle like, or even Slaneesh with the Icon of Excess for a Feel No Pain fast striking blob...

As a lover of Close Combat and CSM I gotta admit its still not a viable tactic, but then again I run Warp Talons so what do I know

They're not bad, as long as you don't face either Tau or Heldrakes. You'll do well in combat, but the getting there will be tough of course.
Nurgle or Khorne marking your CSM isn't a bad choice, either for protection to get to combat, or additional attacks in combat. MoS isn't bad either, especially when you can take the FnP banner.

I 100% love the idea, and think they might be the only proper way to run the old power blobs.

I'd do it myself, but I can't be bothered to make 100 CSM models in the near future. I already HAVE a horde army...

I guess you could give them both MoK and IoV, though, and that would ease things a little.

I have been debating on running a similar unit as a troop choice. I find myself wanting to play a assault army with CSM, but it is slowing disappearing from 40k.

Chaos Space Marines painted red for Khorne with some bolters is what I have been using lately to still be fluffy and have effective troops.

I'm planning on running a couple of these blobs with Huron to take advantage of his warlord trait.
I've even considered a big blob of plague marines, though obviously that gets very pricey.

Naked, 20 CSM with BP/CCW are running you 270 points. Fearless is definitely a must, and IoV is the most cost effective way of getting it so that's 295. You are looking at 40 or 60 points for a Mark for the unit though, which hurts.

I have done a similar tactic in the past with my Space Wolves in 5E. I haven't tried it in 6E since I'm on a Drop Pod binge. I'd run 15 naked Blood Claws (225 points) with a Wolf Guard Pack Leader (43 points), Wolf Priest (110 points), and Rune Priest (100 points) up the board. Expensive at 478 points which is why I don't take it anymore. The point was that the Wolf Priest gave the unit Fearless and Stealth (Saga of the Hunter) and the Rune Priest cast Storm Caller when it was in the open. The WG had a Power Fist and a Combi-Flamer. I may have taken 2 Flamers with the Blood Claws, but I don't think I did. My Grey Hunters and TWC (which moved 6" only in 5E) would just run up the board right behind the huge blob of Blood Claws.

You couldn't ignore the Blood Claws. They hit hard enough to wipe most infantry, but it would take an unfortunate amount of shooting to reduce that many 3+/4++ (or better) models to nothing. Normally the ICs and 2-3 Blood Claws (including WG) would still be alive at the end.


You could do a similar thing here for the most part, for 180 points cheaper. Heck, you can probably use that 180 points to get a Sorcerer in with the unit to try for Invisibility and do the same exact thing for 80 points cheaper or so.

I don't see the value in marks really.
MoK is too reliant on getting the charge in.
MoN is powerful but expensive and doesn't help against plasma or battle cannons.
MoS is only worth it as a method to get IoE but we already have IoV.
MoTz is an expensive and worse cover save.

To help with overwatch, you could run a dirge caster Rhino.

You can make the assault blolb work. It just has to be part of a 1-2 combo. Speaking as a guy who runs an assault army you need a quick ''in your face'' unit, the jab. I use drop pods. Idk what chaos would use, but it mostly needs to just distract. Then there's the ''2'' of the combo, the hay maker. That's the blob. As long as it gets save from most of the shooting it will charge with enough power destroy whatever it hits. Like orks running big boyz mobz, but have bikers & nobs to screen & distract.

A 295 points for a 20 man blob sounds like a solid unit to me, not sure if bolters would be the better option honestly just to move up the table and shoot?

How about the addition of two flamers in the units with the unit having CCWs just to soak up fire.

I've run these in practically every list since the new codex dropped. I really like them, they're great for midfield objective capping.

I'll warn you, against a proper shooty army you're going to take at least 50% casualties before you make it into assault. Your offensive power will still be potent, just not as potent as you originally think. I honestly think it's worth the points to have them keep their bolters. Running them purely as assault leave you at a disadvantage, and put a lot of points into a unit that won't be returning it's investment til turn 3 or 4. I'm still trying to perfect the art of when to run and when to let loose with their bolters.

My list always starts with Huron Blackheart and 2 x 20 CSM with Flamer/Plasma. One blob is running every round with Huron to get into assault. The other is the one that kept the bolters as well, they advance 6" every turn and add some considerable anti-infantry firepower.

They are a really solid choice. Lots of bodies, 3+, good amount of dice being thrown around.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm flirting with the idea of a large squad of BP&CCW marines in with IoV who march up the board. Since you can't assault from Rhinos, why not just footslog it.
Probably give them flamer for overwatch or melta for tanks. Champ will have some kind of power weapon, I'm not sure.

why is Fabulous Bill not in the conversation? He makes 1 blob fearless and gives them the option to take MoS and IoE. Str5 init 5, 60 attacks on the charge
he can then sit in a different blob and give them fearless.

I'm on the fence with Bolters. You get some extra ranged shooting but you're slower to get into combat and less potent.

Would still be fine against Tau but I'd like those other attacks against MEQs or other heavy infantry.

I agree that flamers would be the best overall special. Melta is tempting just because I already have a lot of anti infantry.

Why not 20 Fabius marines with Mark of Nurgle? Good luck killing that.

A good "jab" unit would be nurgle spawn or flesh hounds with karnak or herald on jug

Add Huron (for infiltrate) and a lvl3 unmarked sorc who rolls on telepathy. That sorc has a better than average change of getting invisibility which will turn that blob from scary to OMFG! I can't hurt it.

Don't mark the unit though as it is just a waste overall.

 muagenreaper wrote:
A good "jab" unit would be nurgle spawn or flesh hounds with karnak or herald on jug

I agree, but its hard to find points to add in hounds because you have to devote other units from the daemon codex to have them as allies.

I want to add a BT, Hounds, and some BL to my list but that is a fair amount of points to add to the CSM, limiting there options. Stilling needing at least 2 CSM troops too,


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 gpfunk wrote:
I've run these in practically every list since the new codex dropped. I really like them, they're great for midfield objective capping.

I'll warn you, against a proper shooty army you're going to take at least 50% casualties before you make it into assault. Your offensive power will still be potent, just not as potent as you originally think. I honestly think it's worth the points to have them keep their bolters. Running them purely as assault leave you at a disadvantage, and put a lot of points into a unit that won't be returning it's investment til turn 3 or 4. I'm still trying to perfect the art of when to run and when to let loose with their bolters.

My list always starts with Huron Blackheart and 2 x 20 CSM with Flamer/Plasma. One blob is running every round with Huron to get into assault. The other is the one that kept the bolters as well, they advance 6" every turn and add some considerable anti-infantry firepower.

They are a really solid choice. Lots of bodies, 3+, good amount of dice being thrown around.

I agree, I think the bolters will be better overall, and even more killy when summing the total models killed by the unit.

Is it worth spending the points on a power weapon for the champion?

I dont think so i usually use my champ as a sacrificial.
as anything you might have gain or paid for might dissapear due to either spawndom or dark apotihisis

Another way you could do this, actually, is with noise marines.

20 CSM with BP+CCW and fearless is 295 points. You could get 20 noise marines with BP+CCW and fearless for 380. A hefty price hike, to be sure (about 1/4 more expensive), but you also get +1I, which makes them a bit killier, but mostly more survivable, and FNP, which makes them quite a bit moreso.

25% more expensive for being a bit over 33% more survivable against most weapons doesn't seem like that bad of a deal, necessarily. Plus, you're also more likely to sweep units and win challenges if you give the champ a power sword.

And if that wasn't enough, they can also take a doom siren.

Actually, I'm starting to think that maybe noise marines out khorne berzerker khorne berzerkers.

I hate to say it, but KB are just an average unit now. Not to say they were the gak in fifth edition. It just the rhino charge nerf killed it for my Khorne Rhino rush army.

Its hard to come up with competitve build using KB as troops. I am working on a list with KB (2 troops), then daemon troops handle the rest. The options are 2 blob units or LR rush, its hard for me to enjoy playing rhino with KB now.

I think a cheap blob of CSM are effective, everything else gets too expensive. Maybe even 2 blob units, I like horde armies... Haha.

I had considered a NM blob but I think the extra cost might be too much. It's a valid option however.

Noise Marines are priced just above the "Spam" option. They're good. But you can only take one or two before you're left strapped for killing power elsewhere. As far as I have run them. And if I'm taking Noise Marines I usually like to make the best use of their shooty options. I know I5 is good and all against other MEQ, but it's not as good as their special weapons in my opinion.

 gpfunk wrote:
Noise Marines are priced just above the "Spam" option. They're good. But you can only take one or two before you're left strapped for killing power elsewhere. As far as I have run them. And if I'm taking Noise Marines I usually like to make the best use of their shooty options. I know I5 is good and all against other MEQ, but it's not as good as their special weapons in my opinion.

I agree, you can field a 20 man CSM w/ mark of slaanesh and a slaanesh lord on a mount, all outflanking with acute senses is in hth from turn 3 onward, with most the guys never dying

Across the field hiding in a rhino with noise boys or holding the jockstraps of my oblits is fabius bile

I have only lost 2/10 games running this ridiculousness...but I usually only bring a 16 man CSM squad and the front 4 guys have regular bolters for round 2 suppression fire when they walk on

It is still 40ish I5 S5 hits the whole combo of marines, lord and fabius is about 620 points...plenty of room for two squads of cultists, and three squads of noise boys in rhinos, teamed with 3 oblits, a dread and a drake in a 2k list...objective wins come easy

I've been fielding two blocks of 20 CSM with Fabius bile for a while now. I find them to be a very competitive choice. The first block has Fabius, making them fearless and the second block of fearless because of Fabius.

I've found that its best to keep em cheap. Don't bother marking them. At 13 points a pop they are very cheap for a T4, 3+ save model. Helldrakes would rather be killing 18 point marines than 13 point CSM.

I take a melta gun and an autocannon in each squad. You never know what your going to be facing, and they are cheap upgrades for what they give. In the squad I mix and match based on the models I own. About 70% of them have BP/CCW, and 30% with bolters/special weapons. The idea here is flexability.

People are correct, the squads will get shot up. Who cares. They are 13 point models that are pretty tough. I would rather have people shooting up these squads than shooting up my important models.

I often use them as an ally for my daemons army to provide durable mid-field troops. I'll bring a GUO and stick him behind some of the CSM. Remember, shooting through a friendly unit at a GUO gives it a 3+ cover save! This means that people can't just throw Abbadon or some other beatstick at the CSM blocks without serious problems. If you run the numbers, you will see that a GUO takes nearly everything's lunch money.

If your fielding them as your primary army, you might want to look at daemons as an ally for the same reason. As an added bonus you can get 1-2 squads of very cheap objective campers. Personally I like plague bearers over cultists, as they are cheaper $$$ wise and don't run off the board when taking 25% causalities.

 labmouse42 wrote:

If your fielding them as your primary army, you might want to look at daemons as an ally for the same reason. As an added bonus you can get 1-2 squads of very cheap objective campers. Personally I like plague bearers over cultists, as they are cheaper $$$ wise and don't run off the board when taking 25% causalities.

I'm working with a similar idea. Using CSMs for midfield or in the case of the blob, aggressive objective holders while PlagueBearers hold the rear.

With daemons though, I'm back and forth on whether investing in the CSM blob or Daemonette blobs would be better. I gain durability with CSMs but Daemonettes have that very nice +run speed and Fleet to make sure they get into combat sooner.

I just beat the other top player in our club with a 30 man cultist blob (MoS) + Abaddon with a 10 man cultist unit in a row screening them. Just ran everyone across the field, lost 25 cultists total, but with 4 flamers between the two squads and simo attacks in CC, I butchered some sternguard, a tactical squad, and a platoon of IG allies.

It was a 2.5k battle with blind lists/game type/opponent, but it was the ultimate scoring distraction and I think (because of Abby) it was totally worth it's points. It did capture the game winning objective too.

 buddha wrote:
Add Huron (for infiltrate) and a lvl3 unmarked sorc who rolls on telepathy. That sorc has a better than average change of getting invisibility which will turn that blob from scary to OMFG! I can't hurt it.

Don't mark the unit though as it is just a waste overall.

I would do this and add a second outflanking blob of 15+ with bolters.

That with 2 drakes and a unit of spawn to pressure early while your CC blob advances and you wait for the outflanking blob/drakes to arrive.

Adding an unmarked level 3 telepath is awesome for any large footslogging squad.

 Lobukia wrote:
Adding an unmarked level 3 telepath is awesome for any large footslogging squad.

Other option could be adding a DA. Hatred would be nice, since I won't be paying for VotLW.
I can dump the IoV now.