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Spiritseer, Wraith Gem (3+ IWND) 100

5 Wraithguard. Dscythe 210
WS, Cannon, Scatter 130

5 Wraithguard. Dscythe 210
WS, Cannon, Scatter 130

5 Wraithguard. Dscythe 210
WS, Cannon, Scatter 130

3 Dark Reapers. Starshot 139
Exarch, Fast Shot, Night Vision

Wraithknight, D-Cannon 240 (Warlord, depending on matchup)

I like this list just curious how something like this would evolve to 1850/2k points

Can Wks take D-Cannons?

By the pricing I'm assuming the Wraithknight is a 2 Heavy Wraithcannon? They have no access to D-Cannons and pointswise thats the only one that matches

I feel like those dark reapers would be an easy First Blood target, with everything else being in a serpent or a wraithknight. I understand you want them for anti-air, but they don't have interceptor and I don't think they would be too difficult to take out before they even got a shot off at a flier. For their points cost, you could add two more spiritseers to give each wraithguard unit battle focus for some fast shoot and run or run and shoot dscythes when they disembark.

Well, instead of the Dark Reapers, I'd take a blob of Guardian Defenders including a Warlock. This unit is scoring and it can practically deal with any infantry unit that comes close.

How is the wraithknight your warlord? It is a heavy support, no?

The new Iyanden supplement allows you to make a wraith lord or knight your warlord. They are still a heavy support choice but are also the WL.

 Oaka wrote:
I feel like those dark reapers would be an easy First Blood target, with everything else being in a serpent or a wraithknight. I understand you want them for anti-air, but they don't have interceptor and I don't think they would be too difficult to take out before they even got a shot off at a flier. For their points cost, you could add two more spiritseers to give each wraithguard unit battle focus for some fast shoot and run or run and shoot dscythes when they disembark.

DR are slow and purposeful now, you can just hide them behind some LOS blocking cover and pop out when it's time to shot web. (Web of Skulls.. what happen?)

I can also put the Spiritseer with them to give them conceal for a 2+ save in ruins if I don't want him to be up front.

Wraithknight is stock, anything else is a points sink. T8 regaining one wound per turn makes him worth it, and gives the list some much needed anti av-14.

Scytheguard have to be hands down the most scary unit in the game right now. They can kill literally anything in a single salvo.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:


I can also put the Spiritseer with them to give them conceal for a 2+ save in ruins if I don't want him to be up front.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to switch between Codex:Eldar and Codex:Iyanden at the same tournament on-the-fly depending on the opponent. I do see your point about slow and purposeful reapers, however.

Wait do you mean switching between Voice of Twilight and Conceal as the Primaris?

Scytheguard have to be hands down the most scary unit in the game right now. They can kill literally anything in a single salvo

Really 30 Ork Boyz? 30 Boyz with Cybork and FnP? Not convinced. Nor will they kill a Landraider in a salvo (or indeed many vehicles). Hands down a prescienced Moritat is far more scary... They are a power house unit no doubt not sure you need 3 of them.

Can't comment on the Iyanden changes yet haven't seen the supplement.

Wraith Knight for me doesn't fit too well. That config is the best for this army as it gives you the ranged AT you need. But is that the best spend of 240 points for this list?

I feel both him and the Reapers don't fit. I'd drop them and 1 unit of D-Scythes down to regular wraithcannons and get Warp Spiders to give the massed firepower this list is lacking to help deal with armour spam and flyers and the multi wound units that the D-scythes are less efficient against.

 FlingitNow wrote:

Scytheguard have to be hands down the most scary unit in the game right now. They can kill literally anything in a single salvo

Really 30 Ork Boyz? 30 Boyz with Cybork and FnP? Not convinced. Nor will they kill a Landraider in a salvo (or indeed many vehicles). Hands down a prescienced Moritat is far more scary... They are a power house unit no doubt not sure you need 3 of them.

Can't comment on the Iyanden changes yet haven't seen the supplement.

Wraith Knight for me doesn't fit too well. That config is the best for this army as it gives you the ranged AT you need. But is that the best spend of 240 points for this list?

I feel both him and the Reapers don't fit. I'd drop them and 1 unit of D-Scythes down to regular wraithcannons and get Warp Spiders to give the massed firepower this list is lacking to help deal with armour spam and flyers and the multi wound units that the D-scythes are less efficient against.

As always I value your adversarial tone and scathing commentary Fling,

5 Flamers on a Boyz unit (nobody runs Cybork/Painboy on... regular boyz?) is going to hurt, especially with the ID rule against Nobz/Mega armour and the like. Also, the Boyz are going to have to charge them and take as many Flamer hits in overwatch. It's going to cripple them, at very least. Prescienced Moritat? We're talking about basic troop units here, not wannabe death-stars. Also, they pen vehicles on a 6 with D-scythes at AP2... so yes, they can kill Land Raiders.

Iyanden changes are most importantly to Spiritseers giving Battle Focus in a 12" range to all Wraith units, and the Gem restoring a wound to Wraith units on a 3+ with 6", alongside some Warlord trait buffs.

What would you spend it on? WK is there to give it Iyanden feels. I don't like WL (too slow).

How are Warp Spiders helping with Armour Spam? The WK and WS already provide a lot of Str 10/ Str 7 firepower to kill heavy and light vehicles. Warp Spiders are really fragile for what they do, and far less effective than Reapers IMO.

Well the BF sounds awesome.

The point on LRs was a half joke you're very unlikely to kill a vehicle with D-Scythes. 5 hits needing a 6 to pen then a 5 to kill leaves you with a less than 1 in 5 chance to kill a vehicle. But that is not their job.

Reapers are poor for dealing with armour. They are double the points for a S8 shot. It is even worse for them than a Missileside vs Railside comparison as not only is it 4 S7 vs 1 S8 but you're not getting the AP1 and you're getting half the wounds. The Wraith Knight is only 2 shots a turn for instance shooting it at an AV12 vehicle results in just a 27.4% chance of killing it. He's probably gonna kill a Land raider eventually but against armour spam he's not going to do enough, same for the Reapers. As for the survivability of the Warp Spiders that depends on multiple things. Firstly the prevalence of Helldrakes ( and how you spread) secondly the prevalence of poison and sniper weapons (which make that Knight no tougher than 6 spiders) and finally how you use them. They can potentially move 18" AFTER shooting this means you can block LoS and make it difficult for your opponent to attack them in any way.

I'd also consider swapping the cannons on the Serpents for holofields. Realistically you'll mostly be moving flat out or fitting the shield so you'll not get much use of the cannons.

Over all a good list though. Reapers just need to go and the Knight leaves too much to be desired for me. Only the sun cannon does enough damage to justify the points tag but as you say he becomes a massive points sink then. Anyone with massed poison/sniper fire will take him out in a turn pretty easily. That 3+ is pretty weak Tyranids get away with it by fielding 4-5 big beasts often with a couple of them flying, having 1 seems too much of a liability to me but fielding multiples isn't viable points wise...

 Manchu wrote:
Wait do you mean switching between Voice of Twilight and Conceal as the Primaris?

It is my understanding that Voice of Twilight replaces Conceal as the primaris power in the Iyanden codex, and is not in addition to it. You wouldn't then be able to choose before each game in a tournament setting whether the Spiritseer joins a wraith unit with Voice of Twilight or a reaper unit with Conceal.

Also, our tournaments around here require you to identify your warlord when you hand in your army list at the beginning of the tournament, so I also don't know if you will be able to choose between the Spiritseer and Wraithknight from game-to-game.

I just don't think it'd be hard for most lists to avoid being d-scythed for most of the game.


The serpent can only go 6" if the wraithguard are going to get out, even with battle focus, the threat range isn't that great.

In order to maximize the range, you have to turn the wave serpent's hatch toward the enemy, which exposes rear armor 10.

If the serpents flat out to "redeploy", most of the army spends turn 1 not shooting.

I don't know how these units are going to work.

jcress410 wrote:
I just don't think it'd be hard for most lists to avoid being d-scythed for most of the game.


The serpent can only go 6" if the wraithguard are going to get out, even with battle focus, the threat range isn't that great.

In order to maximize the range, you have to turn the wave serpent's hatch toward the enemy, which exposes rear armor 10.

If the serpents flat out to "redeploy", most of the army spends turn 1 not shooting.

I don't know how these units are going to work.

Should work quite well with a 16" or so threat range on the D-scythes coming out of the Serpents. It is about target saturation with Iyanden. Make them focus to kill some Wraith units so others can get in close enough to eradicate stuff. I can tell you from experience, those D-scythes will certainly be used.

 Cpt Stubbs wrote:
The new Iyanden supplement allows you to make a wraith lord or knight your warlord. They are still a heavy support choice but are also the WL.

The big problem I see with this is that the Wraithknight doesn't have eternal warrior. And while you might not care because after all he's Toughness 8, another Eldar list could cause problems because distortion weapons can cause instant death. Wouldn't it really suck to lose 6 wounds, a 240 point model and your warlord in a single shot?

What about this...(just an idea)...drop the Wraithknight and the Dark Reapers. Lose the D-scythes on one unit of wraith guard to get 2 Wraithlords and another Spiritseer? The Wraithlords aren't as durable as the Wraithknight maybe and they can't be your warlord, true. But you'll dramatically increase your firepower and still keep that Iyanden feel.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

jcress410 wrote:
I just don't think it'd be hard for most lists to avoid being d-scythed for most of the game.


The serpent can only go 6" if the wraithguard are going to get out, even with battle focus, the threat range isn't that great.

In order to maximize the range, you have to turn the wave serpent's hatch toward the enemy, which exposes rear armor 10.

If the serpents flat out to "redeploy", most of the army spends turn 1 not shooting.

I don't know how these units are going to work.

Should work quite well with a 16" or so threat range on the D-scythes coming out of the Serpents. It is about target saturation with Iyanden. Make them focus to kill some Wraith units so others can get in close enough to eradicate stuff. I can tell you from experience, those D-scythes will certainly be used.

Are you assuming they get the battle focus buff?

Move the serpent 6", turn its hatch directly to face the enemy, get out another 6", add the length of the template and you've got approx 20"

But:
- You can only kill what's in range, so you'll only ever kill what's under the template. If can't get within 6" of the enemy, the shots aren't going to be super effective
- This assumes you want to point the rear armor of your serpent at the enemy. Most of the time you won't want to do this.
If you don't pivot to put the rear of the tank at the enemy, you can move it 6", then disembark.. best case scenario here, you get one or two wrathguard almost to the tip of the serpent, which isn't much.

Battle focus may change things, but even with battle focus, you're counting on a decent run roll to put your wraithguard in d-scythe range.

I'm not really arguing the dscythe is bad or that I won't take it, I'm just trying to figure out how in the heck to use them reliably.

A side note about the wraithknight ;
How do you guys transport this model? I mean, at least a land raider is fairly 'box' shaped. But I'm not sure I want to buy a special case just to carry this ONE ginormous model.

It's pretty, and looks bad ass on the table-top. But flying in an airplane to a tournament?

jcress410 wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:

jcress410 wrote:
I just don't think it'd be hard for most lists to avoid being d-scythed for most of the game.


The serpent can only go 6" if the wraithguard are going to get out, even with battle focus, the threat range isn't that great.

In order to maximize the range, you have to turn the wave serpent's hatch toward the enemy, which exposes rear armor 10.

If the serpents flat out to "redeploy", most of the army spends turn 1 not shooting.

I don't know how these units are going to work.

Should work quite well with a 16" or so threat range on the D-scythes coming out of the Serpents. It is about target saturation with Iyanden. Make them focus to kill some Wraith units so others can get in close enough to eradicate stuff. I can tell you from experience, those D-scythes will certainly be used.

Are you assuming they get the battle focus buff?

Move the serpent 6", turn its hatch directly to face the enemy, get out another 6", add the length of the template and you've got approx 20"

But:
- You can only kill what's in range, so you'll only ever kill what's under the template. If can't get within 6" of the enemy, the shots aren't going to be super effective
- This assumes you want to point the rear armor of your serpent at the enemy. Most of the time you won't want to do this.
If you don't pivot to put the rear of the tank at the enemy, you can move it 6", then disembark.. best case scenario here, you get one or two wrathguard almost to the tip of the serpent, which isn't much.

Battle focus may change things, but even with battle focus, you're counting on a decent run roll to put your wraithguard in d-scythe range.

I'm not really arguing the dscythe is bad or that I won't take it, I'm just trying to figure out how in the heck to use them reliably.

wave serpent moves 6"
turns
you get to deploy within 6"
then you get to battlefocus another d6 inches yes?
then 8" template
21-26" if you can battlefocus when you disembark..

Sure, this still means the wave serpent is ass-end toward the enemy, so
- its not firing anything except whats mounted on top.
- its going to get glanced to death by small arms

and, you need to be sure to be close enough to put the fat part of the template on the terminators or whatever.

I understand what you're getting at, I just think mobility continues to be a drawback.

I just think it sucks fast skimming transports dont get any buffs for being fast and skimming, hurts wyches too.