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 Tarrasq wrote:
I can however envision strategies to use every unit (except maybe banshees, nightspinners, and falcons) effectively.

As far as Night Spinners - Don't underestimate the power of a fast skimmer with a Monofilament torrent flamer (not to mention the barrage got better IMHO. esp against vehicles)... I think the Night Spinner has a lot of upside. I'm not saying it is the best HS choice, I'm just saying we have never had a template weapon on a vehicle before, and now we have one that is torrent and monofilament. I have only been able to play 3 games with my Eldar, and I have taken the Night Spinner each time, and have yet to be disappointed.

I love Eldar because they are not forgiving. Aside from making some TFG list that involves a Seerstar from last edition, the army is not easy to play.

You can win and lose a game VERy quickly based on your movement phases and target selection. Much moreso than other armies in the game (due to unit specialization...as they are certainly not predominantly generalists).

Win big or lose big... They learning curve of the Eldar is very different than other armies. The army is kind of a glass cannon (excluding wraith units) but boy what a cannon they are. They are exciting to use and almost nerve braking for your opponent to face if you know how to use them. I can't think of an army that gathers as much love and as much hate in the 40k universe

Belly wrote:

 MrEconomics wrote:
Since you asked:

I don't think he did....

But none-the-less i'm pretty impressed that a nice general thread about a codex turned into the typical neckbeardy mathhammer i'd hope for. Good job dakka.

The comment I referenced stated that "a generalist should be able to do a good job against a large variety of enemies and in a large variety of situations". I used some math to argue that Jetbikes meet this definition.

I'm genuinely impressed that this way of reasoning offended you.

The math is interesting but basing them all off of points reduces the impact of things such as 1 kill can easily remove a 3 man jetbike squad and it is much easier to get that 1 kill off the eldar vs the Ravenwing. The Ravenwing also have hit and run so the cc is not equal at all but the numbers are still interesting. I would agree that the jetbike unit is approaching if not already a generalist unit. They are not even close to Ravenwing however as the Ravenwing unit can have special weapons and become a valid threat to all enemy types.

when your basic trooper has a gun capable of volume of fire for hordes and the ability to rend high armor targets you are not a specialist....


marines cant even do that!


this fire power is offset by abysmal range and made tactical because you have battlefocus to choose to run away or extend further forward to take advantage of that range.



I like to define them as dancers of the razors edge as they skirt the distance between death and victory literally with their basic guns that shoot within charge range.

 ansacs wrote:
The math is interesting but basing them all off of points reduces the impact of things such as 1 kill can easily remove a 3 man jetbike squad and it is much easier to get that 1 kill off the eldar vs the Ravenwing. The Ravenwing also have hit and run so the cc is not equal at all but the numbers are still interesting. I would agree that the jetbike unit is approaching if not already a generalist unit. They are not even close to Ravenwing however as the Ravenwing unit can have special weapons and become a valid threat to all enemy types.

Fair points. Raw numbers like this are never going to tell the complete picture. In regards to your point about how easy it is to kill 3 Jetbikes, let's note that you can take squads as big as 10. With Ravenwing, your max size is 6. If you don't buy any upgrades for either squad, they cost about the same. Which is easier to kill, 6 Ravenwing bikes or 10 Eldar Jetbikes? To me, it's probably the Ravenwing squad, especially since it's easier for the Jetbikes to remain out of LOS and still do stuff.

Also, in practice, the Jetbikes are probably going to be a bit more generalist as the veteran Ravenwing players here seem to think that upgrades for them are a no-no, since it's all about leveraging the Standard of Devastation. I've checked the math, and against any infantry type that isn't a Terminator with a 5++ or at least as tough as a Plague Marine, you're better off shooting the Salvo 4 TL Bolter than a Meltagun. Even with a Plague Marine, the Bolter is better if they have 5+ cover. (Of course, neither weapon is terribly great at killing Plague Marines in cover, not that many things are besides AP3 or better Flamers) So while Ravenwing bikers can be very flexible in theory, it looks like they'll usually be specialized at killing infantry in practice.

Playing Eldar is, more than anything, about using the various units you have together. Inspiring lists fail from lack of coordination on the battlefield and unexpecting lists can dominate if synergy is realized on the table. It's a big part of why Eldar players can disagree strongly so often about what units are good and what units are bad.