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For my Dark Angels, I always play a greenwing base, with either Ravenwing or Deathwing added in as support. I want to buff up my Deathwing a little bit for higher point games (currently I just have 10 shooty termies and Belial) and I wanted to see what people thought about "assault" Deathwing Termies.

Would running troop terminators with TH/SS work? I was thinking about sticking them in a land raider, since they'll lose the vengeful strike buff by throwing away their guns. I've always had great luck with the TH/SS termies in any army, and they would be a hard as nails block of troops. I was just curious if I would be better suited by Deathwing Knights. I'd lose the troop status but pick up some extra special rules. Please let me know what you think!

Deathwing Knights are awesome in a Land Raider. Really you can't go wrong with them.

As far as TH/SS termies go they are a great addition to your shooty squads as they will increase the survivability. Thats one of the great things about DA terminators, you can mix/match assault and shooty. Take advantage of that.

Knights out of a LRC or LRR is just nasty str 10 ap 2 at init 4

First, put me with the voters for Deathwing Knights.

Second, if you put them in a land raider, you have to build your whole list around the idea. For example, at this point you may want to consider a librarian on a bike with PFG. You may want to mount your tactical squads in rhinos to keep up and increase your armor saturation. Etc, etc.

Conversely, while giving up vengeful strike hurts, consider this: In order to shoot at your enemy, twin-linked or not, you have to be in sight of your enemy. They in turn will be in sight of you, and if you face as much Tau as I do, that's not often a winning scenario.

If you take the Deathwing Knights with Belial and no-scatter behind a building, you'll be shielded from at least some of their fire. You're going to krump anything in the game in assault so who cares if you kill a few less shooting? Scoot them out on the next turn and charge something.

Regardless of delivery system, Deathwing Knights consistently surprise, pleasantly, and I often find them earning MVP for me even when I don't intend it.

Thanks for the responses. I agree that the ability to take multiple termie builds in the same squad is a big strength. It's what makes space wolf termies so well rounded. To capitalize off this I am thinking about taking 4 TH/SS and one Plasma cannon. My 10 man squad has two assault cannons, and I usually pop them in wherever I want to nail rear armor on tanks. The plasma cannon's range would let me deep strike a little farther away, and if the termies need to sit and hold an objective, the one gun in the unit would make it so they aren't doing nothing besides holding points down.

On Deathwing knights - I've a DA player in my local scene, who i've played twice now. He's a good player, but the knights I always find to be the least scary thing on the table. Admitedly, i play Eldar, so popping the raider then running away from the knights is'nt a big deal for me. Personally, a big wall of shooty terminators appearing on turn 1 is scary.

I do LOVE the deathwing knight models however.

+1 DWK, cool models, can deep strike and can slay anything in assault.

What is the optimal wargear layout for a unit of 5 DW Terms?

I was thinking
5x termies
- 1x Power Sword
- 1x TH/SS
- 1x Assault Cannon (for intended deep strikers. I like CMLs for units that start on the board)

 Deuce11 wrote:
What is the optimal wargear layout for a unit of 5 DW Terms?

I was thinking
5x termies
- 1x Power Sword
- 1x TH/SS
- 1x Assault Cannon (for intended deep strikers. I like CMLs for units that start on the board)

1X Powermaul/power weapon/sergeant guy
3X TH/SS
1X CML

Oh and i forgot chain fist.

@ Exergy

Can you explain why yours is a superior setup? I see that is has greater durability and is better in CC but I am not sure that it trumps a unit that is cheaper and has more storm bolters.

 Deuce11 wrote:
Oh and i forgot chain fist.

@ Exergy

Can you explain why yours is a superior setup? I see that is has greater durability and is better in CC but I am not sure that it trumps a unit that is cheaper and has more storm bolters.

well first, I dont like chainfists. There are 3-4 models in the game with high rear AV, and often CC isnt the best way to deal with them. Enough str8 and you can get through most walkers.

The cylcone is almost always better than the assault cannon. 2 missile launcher shots can ID T4, deal with light armor, and deny Meq armor saves. The assault cannon synergizes well with storm bolters, if you really want to kill Geq, but DA termites have split fire.

next, storm bolters arent all that. 2 extra storm bolters gets you 2 full rhinos of firepower. Not much. Terminators are all about durability, but in the plasma crazy 6th edition, a 2+ save isnt all that durable. You need at least 2 3++ saves.

So for 5 guys. 1 is going to be the sergeant, 1 is going to be the heavy weapon/CML guys and 2 are going to be TH/SS. The last guy can be a storm bolter chump, dual lightning claw, or another TH/SS if points allow.

 Exergy wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:
Oh and i forgot chain fist.

@ Exergy

Can you explain why yours is a superior setup? I see that is has greater durability and is better in CC but I am not sure that it trumps a unit that is cheaper and has more storm bolters.

well first, I dont like chainfists. There are 3-4 models in the game with high rear AV, and often CC isnt the best way to deal with them. Enough str8 and you can get through most walkers.

The cylcone is almost always better than the assault cannon. 2 missile launcher shots can ID T4, deal with light armor, and deny Meq armor saves. The assault cannon synergizes well with storm bolters, if you really want to kill Geq, but DA termites have split fire.

next, storm bolters arent all that. 2 extra storm bolters gets you 2 full rhinos of firepower. Not much. Terminators are all about durability, but in the plasma crazy 6th edition, a 2+ save isnt all that durable. You need at least 2 3++ saves.

So for 5 guys. 1 is going to be the sergeant, 1 is going to be the heavy weapon/CML guys and 2 are going to be TH/SS. The last guy can be a storm bolter chump, dual lightning claw, or another TH/SS if points allow.

I really agree with this. The only termies I ever buy for storm bolters are the Grey Knight variety. I think a 5 point upgrade to make a squad way more durable is more than reasonable, especially If you leave a heavy weapon in the squad to give it some shooting utility.

1 power sword
1 chainfist
1 autocannon
rest storm bolters/power fists...


Why...because you can pick up a squad of 5 for $12 on ebay.

Has anybody tried running a mix of one hammer/shield/cyclone squad for every one or two storm bolter/assault cannon squads?

I love them in termie squads as there is a lot of ap2

Do you need more than one storm shield in a five man squad? Should it go on the sergeant for challenge purposes?

Can't go on the sarge due to the FAQ mate.
2 if you have the points, 1 at the bare minimum per 5.

I think you should skimp on upgrades as much as possible. Your terminators are more likely to die rolling a 1 on their armor save than being killed off by plasma.

 Blaggard wrote:
Can't go on the sarge due to the FAQ mate.
2 if you have the points, 1 at the bare minimum per 5.

I don't see this anywhere in the faq.
Edit: I see what you are talking about. It says any model may replace his bolter and power fist...
So since the sgt. doesn't have the proper wargear they can't exchange. First, that's a poorly worded faq. Second, I don't believe that is the correct way to read it.

 jetstumpy wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
Can't go on the sarge due to the FAQ mate.
2 if you have the points, 1 at the bare minimum per 5.

I don't see this anywhere in the faq.
Edit: I see what you are talking about. It says any model may replace his bolter and power fist...
So since the sgt. doesn't have the proper wargear they can't exchange. First, that's a poorly worded faq. Second, I don't believe that is the correct way to read it.

I agree with you. That seems kind of silly to have the squad leader stuck with the least effective weapon combo.

I always run a couple thss in a squad to soak up ap2. I love the knights but I've had trouble keeping them behind cover the turn they derp strike in. Just a matter of terrain though. They will gak if smiting and all are there

Relapse wrote:

 jetstumpy wrote:

 Blaggard wrote:
Can't go on the sarge due to the FAQ mate.
2 if you have the points, 1 at the bare minimum per 5.

I don't see this anywhere in the faq.
Edit: I see what you are talking about. It says any model may replace his bolter and power fist...
So since the sgt. doesn't have the proper wargear they can't exchange. First, that's a poorly worded faq. Second, I don't believe that is the correct way to read it.

I agree with you. That seems kind of silly to have the squad leader stuck with the least effective weapon combo.

I agree. With the original wording you could buy a CML and a TH/SS for the same dude, but lose the CML to the "all weapons". I think they tried to fix that and then gakked up regarding the sarge.

I called GW today and asked about the faq. The guy on the phone said that the sergeant could not have any other wargear besides the storm bolter and power sword.

Aw man.

 jetstumpy wrote:
I called GW today and asked about the faq. The guy on the phone said that the sergeant could not have any other wargear besides the storm bolter and power sword.

Wow... good thing I built all my sergeants with TH/SS before the FAQ came out and now my list is illegal so I have to buy more guys who suck... thanks GW...

As far as TH/SS go, I always like to have a 2:1 ratio of shooty to TH/SS. Usually I stick the 4 (now has to be 3 bc of stupid FAQ) TH/SS guys + assault cannon in a Land Raider and have them be either A) a huge bullet magnet that is rolling forward to deliver some pain. or B) a counter charge unit that can ride over to anythign threatening my more squishy units and munch them. I recently had two horrid games against a CSM player who's Daemon prince with the black mace wiped them all in two turns of combat, but that is a severe rarity I think.

Using CMLs as deep strike isn't bad, because if you can deep strike without scattering due to Belial they get twin linked. Plus they cab be placed on turn1 so if you go second it keeps them safe for a turn. Even if you just drop them on your side of the board, they still get twin linked etc. So sometimes it's not a bad idea. Also, having them drop turn two can sometimes be useful as they can drop behind advancing rhinos etc and get some rear armor shots, possibly popping two vehicles due to split fire CML and glancing storm bolters.

Unfortunately my general impression on Deathwing is that they are good, but they must have support. Every time I play (at 1500 points) i bring 15 terminators and almost all of them are dead by the end of the game. It takes a while, but they roll those 1s and fall just like anything else tbh. The models looks great though, so at least you have that going for you no matter what.