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This weekend I had a tourny for the England ETC team, warm up event with a few apperences from ETC players. Very competitive event but quite small, in total around 16 players mainly because it was at a new venue and 2 other tournys going on in different areas I think.

Anyway, took my Daemons list, changed it at the last minute to include Fateweaver instead of my usual Lord of Change list was as follows

Fateweaver (Warlord)
Herald of Tzeentch, mastery level 3, Exalted reward, Locus of conjuration
Herald of Tzeentch, mastery level 3, Exalted reward

20 Horrors with instrument of chaos
10 Plague bearers with PlagueRidden

Daemon prince, mark of Tzeentch, wings, armour, mastery level 2, 2 greater rewards, 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, mark of Tzeentch, wings, armour, mastery level 2, 2 greater rewards, 1 lesser reward
Daemon prince, mark of Tzeentch, wings, armour, mastery level 2, 2 greater rewards, 1 lesser reward


Ok, very weak scoring but 3 hard hitting units, these are my anti armour and anti elite, I cannot handle gun lines too well Horde at all or heavy armour at range. I have to rely on my psyhic powers to de buff my enemy buff myself and I need the greater rewards to be good. Fateweaver hasnt made a apperance in my list for the past 3 months after running him for a month. Very bad move to change last minute considering I have played this list with the Lord of Change to death for a good number of games.


How do you guys think I will get on?, Sadly no pictures, I have some token pictures of one game as it was too good of a picture opportunity to miss!. Missions are below


Round 1 – place objectives before table quarters roll

Big Guns Never Tire – 4 Objectives worth 3 mission points each

Spearhead Deployment – divide table into four quarters, roll for quarters, winner picks a table quarter
and deploys in this but not within 12” of centre point. Loser then deploys in opposite quarter with
same restriction. Winner of deployment then takes first turn unless Initiative is stolen.

Round 2 – place objectives before table area roll

Crusade – 2 Objectives worth 3 mission points each

Purge the Alien – one mission point for each enemy unit destroyed to a maximum of 6 mission points
difference

Vanguard Strike deployment

Round 3 – place objectives after table side roll

The Emperor’s Will – 2 Objectives worth 4 mission points each

Crusade – 1 Objective worth 4 mission points in the centre of the table

Dawn of War deployment

Round 4 – place objectives before table side roll

The Relic – 1 objective worth 6 mission points

Crusade – 2 objectives worth 3 mission points each – placed at least 12” from The Relic

Dawn of War deployment

Round 5 – place objectives after table quarter roll

Crusade – 2 objectives worth 3 mission points each – placed in the middle of the unoccupied
quarters

Purge the Alien – as Round 2

Spearhead deployment as Round 1

First of all, like this sort of lists, but i would change some stuff,

to get 2 times 16 horrors with each a horror and get in a exalted reward with portaglyph/Grimoire (choice on match up).

I think you will have troubles if they start grounding/wounding the DP, if you can get them up and combo charge they will eat the army piecemeal.

Hooray for fateweaver though, reroll to stop those crappy warpstorm results is boss.

I think you will go 50/50 on the matches

Game 1 was Against a nid player, who had lots of gribblies on the table and lots of scoring. Being 4 objectives knew I could not win so damage limitation was in play!. I deployed everything including the plagues who usually stay in reserve, he had some fast moving units so I knew turn 2 I was going to be in combat and the big boys were sat way back with lots of protection. Horrors were charged turn 2 but my turn 2 prince decided to get in the action there, and other two princes charged another two units, luckly synpase was not a issue, basically these combats carried on the whole game more gribblies being thrown in there within snypase range, the horror combat I managed to win for first blood and freed up my prince, doom come down turn 3 and killed 1 horror and two plagues, plauges then going into him out of terrain (lovely cover save and life leech thing!) they soon died so my prince went to finish the doom off who was currently on 10 wounds so str 10 as well, stripped off two wounds from shooting then charged and insta killed him thanks to str 8 from staff of change.


Game ended on turn 4, luckly we are both quick players, I managed to keep the one objective in my deployment, fateweaver contested a objective in another quarter and opponent had the other two objectives so ended as a 6 - 4 loss for me :(.

Points wise he killed 10 plague bearers I killed pod doom and another unit. Very close there but no way could I have won.




Game 2 was against death from the skies.

Lysander

10 tacs
10 tacs
5 tacs

10 scouts with telion
5 scouts
5 scouts

Storm Talon, AC skyhammer
Storm Talon, AC skyhammer
Storm Talon, AC skyhammer

Storm Raven, AC MM Hurricane bolters
Storm Raven, AC MM Hurricane bolters


Turn 1
Vanguard deployment. I have first turn and deploy fatey and the three princes right on my deployment line with the horror squad near my deployment edge along the long edge of the table, plague bearers are stood in the ruin with my objective. He deploys Lysander and a tac squad in a ruin, with the 5 man squad above it. Deploys 10 scouts with Telion in area terrain and bolsters it, he then infiltrates the two 5 man scout squads, one either side of the board.

My blue prince who is closet to the scouts has warp speed so cast that and cast forewarning and grimoire onto the horrors,the blue prince glides around 7 inches away from the scouts the other two prices and fatey fly 24inches to his deployment, my plan here is to get into CC as soon as possible before his flyers come on, the prince makes the charge thanks to fleet from Warp Speed and shooting from the horrors kills 4 of the gone to ground scouts so no first blood yet!. His turn no movement at all, few pot shots but nothing hits or I save it, in CC the scouts are killed by the blue prince (sarg took one for the team in my turn).

First blood to me!.

Turn 2
My turn two I enfeeble lysanders squad, cast warp speed on the orange prince and then go into combat with the 10 man tac squad with Lysander, challenge with one of my princes who kills the sarg, I then kill 7 of the tac marines and lose a prince to Lysander insta gibbing him, school boy error thinking he was enfeebled so the hammer would not be str 1t0,then I get told he is still str 10!, doh!. In his turn 2 of the ravens come on with two talons as escorts, they zip across the board to take shots at my horror squad, iirc I failed the grimoire test even with a re roll so they were on a 5 up, lost most of the horrors to that shooting phase but both heralds alive and kicking,next turn the blue prince charges and kills the 10 man scout squad who at that point had lost a few to shooting, I misfortune lysander and grimoire the orange prince in CC with lysander and move through terrain for my horrors hoping to get inside the 4plus ruin, I manage to get a herald in there with 3 horrors. I kill lysander thanks to misfortune and warp speed.

Slay the warlord!


Turn 3

The portalglpyh spawned me one horror in the last turn. In his turn the next the horrors are pretty much wiped out, he claimed the hurricane bolters on the ravens can shoot backwards and didnt want to play the hurricane bolters MM or AC as having a 45 degree angle of fire, I said fine play it that way. At this point that rest of his army was dead, he had 5 tacs in each raven left. In my next turn I fly my princes back to my deployement taking out a talon with Flickering fire from Fateweaver, his next turn he concentrated his fire from his two ravens and one talon left onto the plague bearers, all those shots and 3 survive thanks to 2plus covers from ruins and shrouding.


Turn 4 and turn 5

My next turn I use hellfire and destroyed the last talon and get into postion with the princes and fatey to kill what comes out of the ravens, at this point I am winning on kill points, secondary and just had my objective, my lone portalglpyh spawned horror now runs for his objective, in his turn 5 both one raven goes into hover mode and the other one flies off, the guys inside use the deepstrike (blood from the skies) to disembark, at this point I have another disagreement, he deploys them first then scatters them towards the direction the raven has to fly in, then he says he is moving his raven 18inches which he measures to find out the guys are in the way so moves anther few inches, I say if the raven had moved first the the guys would have scattered into the flying base and mishapped, again he doesnt want to do that so I let it fly, too nice sometimes but didnt want to come across as TFG.

The raven in the air shoots at my flying prince, fails to do much and doesnt ground him, other raven snap shots at him but against doesnt do much, the guys flame the plague bearers and kill the last three.

Turn 6

Luckly the game continues, one prince goes for the flying raven with hellfire and blows it up, second goes for the hoovering raven and smash attacks and blows it up, Fatey then charges the small combat squad killing off the sarg. In his turn fatey is charged by the other 5 tacs and kills 1 but doesnt take any wounds, two tac marines then leg it, I think at this point we called it but if I had read the rules pack I would have carried on!.

I ended up with 1 objective from my lone horror, the max plus 6 for kill points and first blood and warlord kill, pts wise he had about 90 points left on the table I had lost around 850pts so a big margin there as well.

Without knowing what type of opponents you went up against (other than the first 2), I'd say flying circus daemons will do well and if this was a smaller 3-game RTT, they could even win it all. However, in a longer series of games, there's a much greater chance for the random elements of the army to mess them up. Fatey can control it to a degree, but even he isn't immune to the whims of the the gods of Chaos.

Without reading the reports yet, I think your 1st 2 matches are problematic for daemons. Tyranids is just a rough matchup for daemons (though still a winnable one) and the game against the flyer marine army will depend on his reserves. If the majority of them come in on Turn 2, it may be a rough game for you as well.

Looking forwards to the rest of the tournament.


BTW, I was actually invited to the ETC (though not for the US team). Unfortunately, I had to decline because I already had my vacations all planned out for this year. I am, however, going to the American version of the ETC - the ATC. Really looking forwards to it.

 jy2 wrote:
Without knowing what type of opponents you went up against (other than the first 2), I'd say flying circus daemons will do well and if this was a smaller 3-game RTT, they could even win it all. However, in a longer series of games, there's a much greater chance for the random elements of the army to mess them up. Fatey can control it to a degree, but even he isn't immune to the whims of the the gods of Chaos.

Without reading the reports yet, I think your 1st 2 matches are problematic for daemons. Tyranids is just a rough matchup for daemons (though still a winnable one) and the game against the flyer marine army will depend on his reserves. If the majority of them come in on Turn 2, it may be a rough game for you as well.

Looking forwards to the rest of the tournament.


BTW, I was actually invited to the ETC (though not for the US team). Unfortunately, I had to decline because I already had my vacations all planned out for this year. I am, however, going to the American version of the ETC - the ATC. Really looking forwards to it.

Good point Jim.

Game 1 was against horde nid list, havent got the list to post

Game 2 was against Marines. Lysander, 2 tactical squads and 5 man tac squad (1 tac squad combat squadded) 2 x 10 man scout sniper squads, one combat squadded and other with telion. 2 Storm ravens with hurricane bolters, AC MM and 3 storm talons, AC and skyhammes/

Game 3 was against Daemons. Fateweaver 2 heralds, one on disc exalted reward each, 2x 11 horrors, 3 flamers with pyro caster, 20 hounds, 9 screamers, 9 screamers soul grinder and aegis with lascannon (bs5 flamers here!).

Game 4 was against MORE daemons. Interesting list this, outnumbered me for MC's!. Keeper of secrets, 2 greater ml3, Lord of change, ml3 exalted reward, 2x10 horrors, 3x winged armoured daemon prnce slaanesh 2x greater each iirc allies, CSM Daemon prince with mace with wings, 10 cultists

Game 5 was against a competitive Tau list, with all the usaul Tau stuff in there, again no list to show

MarkyMark wrote:

Good point Jim.

Game 1 was against horde nid list, havent got the list to post

Game 2 was against Marines. Lysander, 2 tactical squads and 5 man tac squad (1 tac squad combat squadded) 2 x 10 man scout sniper squads, one combat squadded and other with telion. 2 Storm ravens with hurricane bolters, AC MM and 3 storm talons, AC and skyhammes/

Game 3 was against Daemons. Fateweaver 2 heralds, one on disc exalted reward each, 2x 11 horrors, 3 flamers with pyro caster, 20 hounds, 9 screamers, 9 screamers soul grinder and aegis with lascannon (bs5 flamers here!).

Game 4 was against MORE daemons. Interesting list this, outnumbered me for MC's!. Keeper of secrets, 2 greater ml3, Lord of change, ml3 exalted reward, 2x10 horrors, 3x winged armoured daemon prnce slaanesh 2x greater each iirc allies, CSM Daemon prince with mace with wings, 10 cultists

Game 5 was against a competitive Tau list, with all the usaul Tau stuff in there, again no list to show

Although I already know the results, I'd give you my predictions based only on the lists themselves.

Game 3 - You should take this one easily. He doesn't have much shooting to deal with your FMC's. He's got even less scoring (or rather, more easily killed scoring) than you and you are insta-killing his hounds and screamers.

Game 4 - Interesting list. And a dangerous list as well. He's got very weak scoring however and you've got better shooting. IMO, FF > Lash of Despair. You could potentially win this one by going after his troops. If you can get Forewarning, then you have a decent chance to beat him by giving your horrors 2++ re-rollable saves. Otherwise, I think he will win.

Game 5 - Tau is always potentially a tough fight. This will all come down to Grounding tests. Any FMC that he grounds early in his shooting phase will be dead and he will not target the unit with 2++, at least not if there are other targets around. Here, Fateweaver will help a lot. If you can keep most of your FMC's in the air, then you've got this easily. Otherwise, it'll be a Tau victory if you can't pass your Grounding tests.

Game 3 Against a guy called Tim with a nicely paintd Daemon army. Looking at his list the Soul grinder could be a issue with str 10, he has fatey in there as well for funky re rolls and the hounds will cause a issue if they get into my troops, same with the screamers.

I get turn 1 so deploy my 20 horrors in a ruin over looking the middle objective and my objective I then line up fatey and the three princes in a line in the middle of my deployment, he puts horrors behind the aegis, flamers on the lascannon, hounds and one unit of screamers with both heralds in left corner along with the grinder and the hounds and fatey. He then scouts the hounds forward outside of first turn charges for.

Turn 1 I fly all princes and fatey, princes go towards the scouted hounds and fatey goes up the middle, horrors get into the ruin nothing much happens my turn 1, in his turn he surrounds one prince hoping to ground it which fails to and the non herald screamers turbo boost near my horrors.

My turn 2 prescience my horrors and misfortune the screamers in my objective, iron arm on 2 of the princes that had it and warp speed on one of those as well they then charge the hounds the other prince goes into the screamers and fatey blasts quite a few of the horrors behind the Aegis, he has grimoired his hounds so not much happens there I kill a few then a few more wounds from DI my other prince accepts a challenge from the herald that was carrying the portalglpyh and swipes him down stright away, The horrors take a big toll on the screamers also. His turn 2 most is in combat few pot shots at fatey put a wound on him I think other herald then challenges my prince and gets swiped in one go as well and I kill a few more hounds (being str 8 with staff of change helps a lot!). Now I know the grimoire is gone my next turn I can go to town on these hounds. He charges the screamers into my horrors, at the mo I have a very good save on them and beat them in combat leaving 1 on 1 wound!.

Turn 3 I spawn a few plague bearers from the portalglpyh fatey flies around doing his thing and buffing de buffing enemies, stright to combat really, I kill a few more hounds and the other prince wipes the screamers due to str8 and DI the other screamer on 1 wound against the horrors dies. His turn is damage limation time but the hounds die off in CC to my princes leaving them two free, lascannon takes a shot at my prince that with a perils he is down to 2 wounds left,.

Turn 4 my prince with Iron Arm and armour bane fleshbane takes 2 HP's off the grinders, last few troops are killed of (he kept spawning 2 or 3 models from the portalglphy! Turn 4 his grinder dies in CC another shot from the lascannon at something!.

Turn 5 I kill his troops near the portalglpyh (and his objective) I then try to kill his flamers I get them down to 1 on 1 wound going to ground behind a aegis line for 2 plus cover re rolling 1's. At this point my red prince nearest to the flamer was on one wound didnt bother casting warpspeed for fleet charges but fails by a 1inch need ing a 5 and getting a 4!.

Game ended after that with him hanging on by a 1 wound for a tabling!

Ok so at the end of day 1 I was second overall with 43 points, friend Lee Hall was leading with 45 pts and two of the ETC players that were competiting where close behind!. Lee was running a DE splinter cannon spam army, a list I didnt want to face, lucky I was drawn against another Daemon list, lucky I thought until I saw his list! darn!

Keeper of secrets, ml3
Lord of change ml3 with grimoire

11 horrors
11 horrors

Daemon prince slaanesh, wings armour and greater reward x2
Daemon prince slaanesh, wings armour and greater reward x2
Daemon prince slaanesh, wings armour and greater reward x2

Allied daemon prince CSM, black mace wings and armour

10 cultists

Wow, he had me outnumbered on princes big time, my only advantage was psyhic powers, I rolled iron arm only once :( but I did manage to roll warp speed a few times which helped a lot (meaning I could smash attack with more attacks and swing before his princes do.

Turn 1, he had first turn and peppered one of my princes with flickering fire and lash's taking 2 wounds off, unlucky for me this was a prince without feel no pain reward, but he got himself a 6plus for his troubles, all the princes come forwards the black mace prince making it for my horrors, bad move if he gets into CC with them!. I deploy the three princes in a line and fatey off to the left and the horrors to the right.

Ok now my turn, his black mace prince is in vector strike range of two of my princes, but do i want to vector him leaving myself open for 2 vectors? no I decided, powers went up warp speed on the wounded prince, forewarning, prescience and grimoire on the horrors and misfortune on his CSM mace prince, fatey vectors one of his princes and flies behind him the other two princes fly to deny his vectors and get a little shooting off (life leech on one iirc). the wounded prince stays on the floor ready to assault anything that I ground. Shooting manages to kill his CSM prince so first blood to me and starting to even out the FMC radio a little!.

Turn 2 he vectors my wounded prince on the ground killing him off, my turn I again get my powers up and go after his troops, knowing my horrors can hold their own for now. (forgot to mention he had invisability on his keeper, left him alone basically although he did lose a few wounds to perils!). My turn again a few pot shots across the board.

Turn 3, its a tacitcal game of catch the princes between us! he puts one prince into the horrors with the 2 plus invul re rolling 1's, to cut a long story short, with 20 horrors and 2 heralds and prescience and misfortune and having a 2plus re rolling invul I manage to kill his prince thanks to misfortune and DI! woooho. My other princes wipe out his horror units.

Turn 4, he commits a prince each to mine, one having iron arm the other having warp speed, both his princes are insta gibbed, at this point I have around 18 plague bearers, 8 frm portalglpyh and 10 from reserve, the LOC charges the 8 plagues and kills one or two, again to cut a long story short the two plague bearer squads tie up the LoC for a few turns acutally winning combat sometimes and even getting all the models back that i lost in one combat (about 3) with 1,1 on the DI test!.

Fatey with warpspeed kills off the cultists, KoS goes into a prince with warp speed plus 3, keeper dies but my opponent forgots to smash attack, meaning my prince takes a wound or 2 (iirc it was 2 wounds and i had +1 wound it will not die).

Other prince then goes into his lord of change and easily pulls the last few wounds off. Also last turn i managed to get 6,6 on the warp storm table giving my 11 new horrors onto his objective but shortly after he was tabled.

Tabling victory for me!.

Those horrors sound horrid :p!

Well i like lord of change because you want slassh deamon princes to get lash and mybe pykic shrek.

Final update, hasnt been much response to this thread so havent been updating it much only when I have free time.


So final game, game 5 I ended up on the top table, there were three of us around the same score I think I was slightly ahead of Chris and Andy (in that order). I was paired against Chris Green and his Tau!, man I hate Tau when using my daemons, even their rank and file wound me on 4's (FW str5 and kroot with sniper ammo).

Deployment was table quarters with objectives in the two opposite corner to our deployment, there was a lot of ruins on this table with two or three pieces of area terrain. Basically a big ruin in the middle on area terrain, 2 pieces to ruins to my bottom right, 2 pieces to my top left, and a few small walls and a piece of area terrain in Chris's deployment. Secondary was kill points

I won the roll off to go first which I took as to get my princes into the air and get some powers off, powers for this game were pretty poor really, only 1 FNP and no iron arm!. Wasnt looking good going into this, I did get forewarning on my herald though,

Turn 1 I scoot two princes to the bottom right and run them, they were just behind the ruins it was nightfighting but we all know Tau do not care about that!, the prince with FNP goes to the top left behind a ruin and fate with the grimire goes behind the ruin in the center with the horrors moving up. Shooting phase, warp storm does nothing, princes all run, fatey is in a good position and has 2 kroot within 24inches, nothing else to fire so I fire flickering fire with a few warp charges, iirc I get 1,1 in the process taking a wound!, ouch.

Power is not denied, quite a few wounds on them so the 2 within range drop down dead, then I ask for a toughness test which Chris fails, I roll the d3 and get a 3!. That means 5 losses which is 25%, so ld test time!, they have a 10 from a nearby etheral which they get a 5, and 6. 6 inch run means they are just off the board!. Woohoo first blood from a very unlikey and lucky way!. So first blood scoring unit gone and a kill point very glad so far!.

Turn 1 from chris everything manovers to shoot at the two princes, one goes down quite easy the other loses 2 wounds.

Turn 2, the prince on 2 wounds casts life leech and fails or denied, darn! needed some wounds back, he turn assaults the kroot in front of him and manages to tank quite a lot of overwatch losing a wound in the process. He wipes the unit and consols back into terrain. The other prince flys towards his upper right corner and lands in some terrain hoping for a turn 3 charge. Fatey again with the grimoire flies right into his lines tries to do molten beam and cover save from two devil fish make it pretty useless!. Think I rolled really poor on str for bolt of change as well.

Chris's turn 2, half his army fires at the prince on 1 wound, he tanks a LOT of shots failing one save which gets re rolled thanks to fatey, it comes down to one of the devil fish which move, chris fires off one of its weapons scoring 1 wound and I ask about snap shotting as it moved he said oh yea just do the one save, yep its a 2 and the prince dies. The other half of his army shoots at the top prince and he tanks most of the saves, 3 plus re rolling 1's and 4+ FNP after, think I lose a wound at this point.

My turn 3, Orange prince gets into his suits and wipes them then consols behind his area terrain piece which is just enough to BLOS from half his army, Fatey enfeebles some suits vectors them and flies off the board as I was out of range of the grimoire, plague bearers deepstrike down into one of the objectives, horrors have been moving into the center of the board for the past few turns.

Chris's turn 3 he shoots a lot at my last prince, finally killing him his devil fish move over to the opposite objective (next to my table edge) to the plagues, riptide and commander move towards my horros who have a 2plus at the moment.

Turn 4, fatey comes back on from reserves, plague bearers move towards the objective, horrors move up giving lots of LOS bodies tot he heralds, grimoire is put n fatey. Fatey casts molten beam on a devil fish and blows it up!, The etheral is in there and my horrors look at him and smile, one round of shooting from them is enough to kill the firewarriors and etheral, earning me a good few kills pts.

Chris's turn 4 he continues moving his riptide commander and devil forwards, doesnt get the FW's out to deny another KP and my horrors would of course chose them as the best targets.

MY turn 5 plagues move onto the objective while keeping in terrain, fatey flies about, and horrors move away from his riptide and commander. Think I put a few wounds on the misfortune riptide from horror shooting.

Chris turn 5, he marker lights the plague bearers and shoots a lot of his army at them enough to push them off the objective, he moves broadsides I think through terrain losing a drone in the process to dangreous terrain.

Roll to see if it ends which it does!.

Neither of us have any objectives, kill points I was quite a bit ahead but then Chris beat me on how much of my army he killed points wise, three princes is a lot of pts!.

Overall, I came first with 75 pts, Andy H came second close to my heels on 73pts (he was facing nids with a unkillable doom of malanti!, smash attacks bounced off his 3++ which meant he didnt table his opponent!). Chris Green was 3rd on 69pts.

In total 1 small lose, 1 small win and 2 big wins and a tabling win, I was unlucky not to have get three tabling wins but I will know for next time to do that bit extra to get that.

Out of 5 games, I had a kill point score of 6584, that was the value of pts I killed during the 5 games, average of 1316 points per game I was the second highest with Chris green getting 7612! most possible was 9250 so I didnt do bad there!.

Congrats on your finish.

I like your list much better than a pure FMC-spam list. It is more balanced.

One thing I've been thinking about recently is adding a skyshield landing pad to such a list. You can put it near the middle and move all your FMC's to it on Turn 1 to give them all 4++ invuln's. I may have to experiment with this. It also lets to get the 2++ re-rollable invuln save without having to rely on getting Forewarning.

 jy2 wrote:
Congrats on your finish.

I like your list much better than a pure FMC-spam list. It is more balanced.

One thing I've been thinking about recently is adding a skyshield landing pad to such a list. You can put it near the middle and move all your FMC's to it on Turn 1 to give them all 4++ invuln's. I may have to experiment with this. It also lets to get the 2++ re-rollable invuln save without having to rely on getting Forewarning.

Haha, I have thought the same about the skyshield to be honest, it is just a mess of rules though and I dont think I would use one as I dont like facing them myself due to the rules abuse it could open up.

My opponent Graham with the pure FMC list (KoS LoC and 4 princes!) was suprised at how badly I beat him, I said it was down to the psyhic powers and probably the fact I know my list very well he is now going to try Slaanesh princes with lvl 2's i think!. I think people see the horrors and underestimate how much damage they can do, I personally dont put the grimoire on any prince, unless he is nearly dead I really need him to kill something important (i,e a GD or something), if you put the grimoire on a prince all it does it make your opponent focus on your other princes!. I do like putting the grimoire on the horrors and tanking everything thats being shot at them.