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 ansacs wrote:
Only if they only play necron flyer and eldar skimmer armies.

Given that people seem to include the ADL & a quad gun just in case they run into Flyers, a Hydra doesn't seem like a horrible investment.

And it's nice against FMCs, too.

And against Drakes.

It's actually a good counter to many of the new "meta changers ".

It snap fires against anything not a flyer or skimmer. This makes it much worse than a quadgun at nearly the same price as the gun + adl which gives you lots of 4+ cover. The quadgun also has interceptor which is very helpful when the enemy flyers tend to have weapons good at killing your aa gun.

Finally no S7 gun is good against the hellturkey. It is much better to nuke the rear with guided dragons or wraithguard than to chip away at it and let it regain hull points every turn. If you use hydras you will normally need to reserve them and you will need 3 to kill a drake in 1 turn. IG are better served by FW or massed vendetta las. At least with a vendetta you are mostly safe from retaliation. Alternatively you can count on fire on my target orders and you may have to add some autocannons now. Though there is much to be said for lascannons which will make the eldar player hesitate to use the discharge mode of the shield as the WS becomes much easier to kill without it.

I just had another idea, what if you got puppet master and forced the wave serpent to shoot the shield. Can you then shoot the wave serpent since it is now not shielded?

Well several people have suggested puppet master. Only problem is, you can't rely on even getting it.

Played Eldar v Eldar recently, it is brutal. My own serpents dropped 3 opposing serpents turn one. How can you recover from that?

 sudojoe wrote:
I just had another idea, what if you got puppet master and forced the wave serpent to shoot the shield. Can you then shoot the wave serpent since it is now not shielded?

You mean a model can shoot itself? The shield can be used a tank weapon.

I'm...pretty sure it can't shoot itself. I stand with wuestenfux in doubting this one.

 Lothar wrote:


You obviously do not know what are you talking about...

Yeah, that wasn't one of my better efforts. I got lazy.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
I just had another idea, what if you got puppet master and forced the wave serpent to shoot the shield. Can you then shoot the wave serpent since it is now not shielded?

You mean a model can shoot itself? The shield can be used a tank weapon.

He said then. As in "Fire the shield at the bloke next to the wave serpent, and then light up the serpent with every S8-S9 weapon you have available."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LValx wrote:
I am a Tau player. I use the following unit:

Commander - Puretide chip, Multi spectrum, Iridium armor
3 Broadsides - HYMP, SMS, 6 Drones.

I've played Mechdar 3 times and each time that unit has taken out 5+ vehicles. On average that unit will remove about 3 AV12 vehicles a turn. It is also incredibly durable and difficult for Eldar players to remove.

For non-Tau players.... good luck..

Oh god, this unit. I've faced that unit twice so far on vassal. So much pain

He said then. As in "Fire the shield at the bloke next to the wave serpent, and then light up the serpent with every S8-S9 weapon you have available."

I don't think puppetmaster works with the shield, as the shield is not a weapon, it's a piece of vehicle equipment.

So, for it to work I believe that the User would have had to used the shield already as a shooting attack.

 Sasori wrote:

He said then. As in "Fire the shield at the bloke next to the wave serpent, and then light up the serpent with every S8-S9 weapon you have available."

I don't think puppetmaster works with the shield, as the shield is not a weapon, it's a piece of vehicle equipment.

So, for it to work I believe that the User would have had to used the shield already as a shooting attack.

It says make a shooting attack. The wargear can be used as a shooting attack as "if it were one of your models."

I do agree though that this may need to FAQ'd. It's one of those grey areas again. Is there a precedence?

Any thoughts on The DE's ability to combat wave serpent armadas?

Flicker fields and lances might be your best bet.

If you can get wyches with haywires that might mess it up as well.

 Bwolf999 wrote:
Any thoughts on The DE's ability to combat wave serpent armadas?

You will struggle mightily, as their weapons are far more efficient at destroying your vehicles and troops, than your weapons are at destroying their serpents. If they are smart with their shields they should blow you right off the table. Serpent-spam is a very tough thing to deal with and I think very few armies are equipped to deal with them.

 LValx wrote:

 Bwolf999 wrote:
Any thoughts on The DE's ability to combat wave serpent armadas?

You will struggle mightily, as their weapons are far more efficient at destroying your vehicles and troops, than your weapons are at destroying their serpents. If they are smart with their shields they should blow you right off the table. Serpent-spam is a very tough thing to deal with and I think very few armies are equipped to deal with them.

I guess Kelly broke the game again then

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 LValx wrote:

 Bwolf999 wrote:
Any thoughts on The DE's ability to combat wave serpent armadas?

You will struggle mightily, as their weapons are far more efficient at destroying your vehicles and troops, than your weapons are at destroying their serpents. If they are smart with their shields they should blow you right off the table. Serpent-spam is a very tough thing to deal with and I think very few armies are equipped to deal with them.

I guess Kelly broke the game again then

Not broke, but definitely didn't help the game. Serpents are going to shake up the meta because they are very difficult to destroy. High Strength low AP weapons will struggle because the majority of Pens will just become glances. I'm thinking that DE, Nids, Marines, Orks and IG will all have a difficult time dealing with them.

Alternatively it does work but due to this interpretation the shield regenerates during both players phases. The rule says it may only be fired in the turn that it referenced recharging. So pick this option and suffer.

The ridiculous thing is when the cousins battle is the fact that it would take ALL of my army in one turn of firing, to fully destroy a single wave serpent. While in one turn of shooting, I could conceivably be tabled or damn near close to it.

Dafuq Kelly?

This is what happens when you spend all your time doing drugs and whoring while your cousin trains relentlessly in the art of war. Ya get whooped.

 ansacs wrote:
This is what happens when you spend all your time doing drugs and whoring while your cousin trains relentlessly in the art of war. Ya get whooped.

You just made me laugh, one of the first times i've done so reading Dakka. Congrats!

And DE. Poor DE. One of the higher ceilings in 40k, but by far the lowest floor. Its unfortunate as the models are beautiful and they've got flavor.

They are some of the best models I'll give you that. They still work very well as eldar allies. Grisly trophies let you reroll psychic tests! Turns out CWE are really just closet perverts.

 LValx wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 LValx wrote:

 Bwolf999 wrote:
Any thoughts on The DE's ability to combat wave serpent armadas?

You will struggle mightily, as their weapons are far more efficient at destroying your vehicles and troops, than your weapons are at destroying their serpents. If they are smart with their shields they should blow you right off the table. Serpent-spam is a very tough thing to deal with and I think very few armies are equipped to deal with them.

I guess Kelly broke the game again then

Not broke, but definitely didn't help the game. Serpents are going to shake up the meta because they are very difficult to destroy. High Strength low AP weapons will struggle because the majority of Pens will just become glances. I'm thinking that DE, Nids, Marines, Orks and IG will all have a difficult time dealing with them.

The durability isn't any better than 12 t7 wounds behind an aegis for 90 points+Aegis.

The meta will adapt. Fast cc and deep striking/fast units doing a rear shot ignore the shields. Necrons have plenty of solutions wraiths, scarabs, storm teks, dlords with a scythe.

I dont think all the armies can adapt. I believe the introduction of Serpents is just going to further drive 40k towards a RPS-style of game. It's almost impossible to create a list that can handle 10-12 AV12 hulls, Flyers, massive Hordes and speedy, durable assault lists (cav Daemons with Grimoire, FMCs with powers, Nids, Wraiths, BW Orks).

Why do you need to handle 10-12 AV 12 vehicles? What point level are you playing at?

Sorry if it's been said before, but I haven't really read the first 3 pages. You need volume of high-strength firepower to deal with serpent-spam. Several armies can do this well - necrons with teslas, grey knights with psycannon-spam and psyflemans, Tzeentch Herald-spam, Tau with missile-sides/riptides, space wolf missile-spam and another mechdar army and the seer council w/Fortune. Other armies will struggle.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

He said then. As in "Fire the shield at the bloke next to the wave serpent, and then light up the serpent with every S8-S9 weapon you have available."

I don't think puppetmaster works with the shield, as the shield is not a weapon, it's a piece of vehicle equipment.

So, for it to work I believe that the User would have had to used the shield already as a shooting attack.

It says make a shooting attack. The wargear can be used as a shooting attack as "if it were one of your models."

I do agree though that this may need to FAQ'd. It's one of those grey areas again. Is there a precedence?

Perhaps MSS (Mindshackle Scarabs) and force weapons. It's been FAQ'd that MSS lets the bearer force his target to activate Force Weapons. I see this as directly correlating to Puppetmaster letting you use the Energy Shield to fire its weapon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Janthkin wrote:
Why do you need to handle 10-12 AV 12 vehicles? What point level are you playing at?

I believe at 2K, you can fit at most 8-9 skimmers of the AV12 variety.

Actually for 1875 pts you can field 11 AV12 skimmers of course this is with no upgrades and the minimum priced options for units/HQ/HS, so it stinks. However a pretty good list will probably be ~7-9 4++ skimmers at that level.

 LValx wrote:
I am a Tau player. I use the following unit:

Commander - Puretide chip, Multi spectrum, Iridium armor
3 Broadsides - HYMP, SMS, 6 Drones.

I've played Mechdar 3 times and each time that unit has taken out 5+ vehicles. On average that unit will remove about 3 AV12 vehicles a turn. It is also incredibly durable and difficult for Eldar players to remove.

For non-Tau players.... good luck..

^ THIS + THIS \/



= A good solution for NON-tyranids

 Janthkin wrote:
Why do you need to handle 10-12 AV 12 vehicles? What point level are you playing at?

just another case of someone whining on the forums about "op" units that probably hasn't actually even played a game of 6th. the most you can fit into 2000 points is 10 and those are bare bones.

phoenixrisin wrote:

 Janthkin wrote:
Why do you need to handle 10-12 AV 12 vehicles? What point level are you playing at?

just another case of someone whining on the forums about "op" units that probably hasn't actually even played a game of 6th. the most you can fit into 2000 points is 10 and those are bare bones.

How would you quantify this?
6-7 Serpents filled with min sized troops and Elite units,
3 HS tanks (Prisms, Spinners, Falcons).