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Hey mak can you post up exactly what you have currently?

As far as I can tell you have:

trencher
trencher chaingun
ironclad
shieldwallx2
forgeguard
cain/nemo
hammersmith
stormguard
chargers x2

What is a shield wall? And which versions of nemo and caine?

I dont know, we need mak to comment first, thats what I took form the other thread

This thread is a good idea and you should feel good. I'm keen for Mak to weigh in so we can help out properly

And it's pCaine, not sure which Nemo. And I'm pretty sure a shieldwall is the hammerfall gun corps, I think I remember him calling them dwarfs with shields ages ago, but don't quote me on that.

This is what he posted he had, or could get on the Cygnar forums:

caine , ironcladx2 , chargerx2 , highshield corpsx2 , darius, grundback gunnersx2, forgeguardx1. I can get a hammersmith , nemo , trenchers , trenchers chaingun .

1xbox of forgeguard
2xbox of seaforge shieldguard
1xnemo
1xcain
1xdarius , without half jacks , the guy that sold them to me "forgot" to say I cant use Darius without them.
1xhammersmith
2xchargers
2xironclads
1xGrundback Gunner
1xThor Steinhammer
1xRagman

You can order the half jacks directly from PP. http://store.privateerpress.com/cygnarwarcasters.aspx?page=4
You could get all 3 half jacks for $12 plus shipping.

do you mean these guys as shield guard?

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/HighShield

Assuming we're talking about the High Shield Gun Corps as the "shieldguard," that's actually a pretty decent armor base for a resilient portion of the army to take hits. The Hammersmith could reinforce them as a bit of additional heavy armor, the Ironclads could act as somewhat more mobile muscle. I'm just throwing thoughts out and will be taking a bit of time to think on things, but those are just a few initial observations.

To start things off, it is better to play small games until you are comfortable with the rules and your models. I'd stick with 25-35 point games for a while if I were you.
Your collection has a few gaps but we can work with it.

This is the first thing that comes to mind at 25 points.
Points: 25/25
Lieutenant Allister Caine (*6pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Horgenhold Forge Guard (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Ragman (2pts)
Thor Steinhammer (2pts)
* Grundback Gunner (3pts)

You have a strong melee punch with effective ranged support.
Caine can throw snipe on either the charger, the highshields, the gunner, or himself depending on your needs. Deadeye on the highshields to help them clear infantry en masse but otherwise let them combine attacks.

The gunner is the highest threat range in the army. With snipe and pronto it can get up to 26" threat range. You can use that to hit a backline support model or to put a surprise pow 12 into an unguarded caster.

The ironclad is your main heavy-hitter and ragman near his charge target can make it hit like a train on steroids. Don't overlook the utility of a tremor charge for lowering a target's defense for the rest of your army or clearing line of sight.

The forgeguard are melee insurance in case there are too many hard targets for the ironclad to handle alone. Try to have ragman near these guys when they charge.

For Nemo (assuming I guessed the correct version of him) it is a bit tougher to make a list but still workable.
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Hammersmith (8pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Hammerfall High Shield Gun Corps (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Ragman (2pts)

The highshields would be much better as a single ten-man unit with Murdoch attached in this list but at least you get an extra body out of the deal. They are more or less fodder to protect the battlegroup and to thin enemy infantry.

Ragman is in this list to add the threat of devastating power to your jacks and to feed Nemo power tokens.

The jacks are just generic melee beatsticks here but the same comments on tremor in the list above apply here. Try to keep the hammersmith behind the ironclad by an inch or two and use him as a counterattack threat.

Nemo normally likes firing offensive spells but without Sylys or an arc node I would not recommend sticking your neck out just to zap a few dudes. be very cautions with the old man.

Your win condition will probably be either by a strong counterattack to what they kill your front line with or by supercharging a single heavy then locomoting it to make it a long-range high-damage missile. Don't forget commander Nemo can allocate up to five focus to a single jack rather than just the normal three. That is a big advantage sometimes.

 Grundz wrote:
do you mean these guys as shield guard?

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/HighShield

yes.

I'd say dias has a good start, I still think that you and your opponents are new enough to not be playing properly which tends to punish ranged armies pretty severely

I'd say remember to play scenario, and your #1 priority is making sure you lose no ground, running troops in the face of his man-o-wars or whatever instead of charging, leaving a buffer of a few inches then the rest of the squad so they can charge the next turn, running single infantry in the way of jack charges, knocking things down, ect.
always keep an eye out for getting a snipe-shot on his caster with something long range, a boosted pow12 or two can easily kill an un-camped caster or do serious damage,
you want to force him to commit with a jack or two into your infantry where they will kill a few, maybe, before you countercharge or shoot with jack(s) kill his, then move the infantry up to re-block

yeah am having a problem with shoting now. one of my friends plays decided that he will only play his druids against me and I auto miss against those , I already had the same problems with cryx and the khador stuff seems to be unkillable with high armor or tough or cloud effects or high def or mix of those at the same time . It feels like tailoring , but everyone says that is how wm is played.

Makumba wrote:
yeah am having a problem with shoting now. one of my friends plays decided that he will only play his druids against me and I auto miss against those

I don't understand that bit, how do you auto miss?

I just checked, they don't have stealth or prowl

I don't think he means auto-miss in a literal sense, more that def 18 is ball busting.

Druids get camouflage and concealment thanks to their clouds. They are very high defense and very annoying to fight as Cygnar. The normal tactics of leaping autohitting lightning at them won't work if they take the officer and spam elemental protection. Gun mages with their officer can ignore the concealment, but they cannot see through clouds to the second row of druids (usually my opponents only use 3-4 at the front.)
AOEs are generally the best way to handle these pests, but Cygnar has very few of those. Ryan of the black 13th can fire mage storm for pow 12s all around or an avenger can lob a shot at them for pow7 blast but you are going to rely on deviation for both of those. Gun mages marshaling an avenger are probably the most effective package for taking out druids but you're paying 17 points to kill a 9 point unit, so you need to have a plan for what other work those models will do. I have not fought Circle much since I bought my minutemen but I imagine they are very good at clearing druids by leaping in the middle of the bunch and laying down the flak field.

There's a bunch of non intuitive ways around it too, like slamming a model into the offending high DEF model, aoe's, moving up your own model and hitting them with spiney burst or something.

however remember, your mission is not to remove every model on the board, its to get to that caster, you can run your high arm-infantry that he really cant do anything about either into them, and they can have a staring contest while you shift around in the back, take boosted shots at them slowly, and try to get some boosted pot shots off on his caster.
If someone clogs me with infantry, I clog him back, and keep shooting overtop at his bigger things with my bigger things, if he commits a jack to get my infantry out, he'll splat a few infantry and then i'll move a jack in to beat up his jack, after shooting it of course.

 motyak wrote:

Makumba wrote:
yeah am having a problem with shoting now. one of my friends plays decided that he will only play his druids against me and I auto miss against those

I don't understand that bit, how do you auto miss?

I just checked, they don't have stealth or prowl

he has a caster that makes all his monsters stealthed . So to hit them I have to be 5" away which is generaly deadly to cain and my dwarfs are engaged before they can get in to range. I tried to send them in two waves . First one eats the charge , second shots or charges , but they are very hard to hit and those up front regenerate.


But that is ok , I can live with a counter match up . I just hope he won't be using just this army against me , he has enough casters and units to make 3 armies . My problem is Iriss , seen here for the first time in my life today and I can not imagine a worse solo to play against me. stealthed , does ok dmg and stops my caster from doing anything for a turn and top all of it off , she has advance deployment. I tried to shield from here using my dwarf .Made two base to base walls touching each other , but widowmakers kill those two needed to get LoS to my nemo . With darius I couldn't even properly shield myself , because she is so fast . Although it did take her 2 turns to totaly flank me totaly and she did slow my advance . That allowed my opponent just before the contesting zone . I also learned a lesson that jacks without focus are realy bad.
Third game was with cain I went streight for her . I run a charge and then slamed him in to her . Which was awesome because she died. What I did forget though is that doing that I was without focus for gate crasher and sorsha flew in , froze me and killed me next turn.

Makumba wrote:

 motyak wrote:

Makumba wrote:
yeah am having a problem with shoting now. one of my friends plays decided that he will only play his druids against me and I auto miss against those

I don't understand that bit, how do you auto miss?

I just checked, they don't have stealth or prowl

he has a caster that makes all his monsters stealthed . So to hit them I have to be 5" away which is generaly deadly to cain and my dwarfs are engaged before they can get in to range. I tried to send them in two waves . First one eats the charge , second shots or charges , but they are very hard to hit and those up front regenerate.

Ah, thats a rough fight, but it looks like you're starting to get it, cygnar has issues with stealth. someone who knows more about playing as cygnar would have to comment but that sounds like a job for someone with purification or arc node/hex blast

I'm not sure what you mean they were engaged before you got in range, do you mean you moved up, then got charged, so you weren't able to shoot? that can happen, but its also an option to play cat and mouse with him, if he wants you to move into his charge range, and you want him to move into your close-range shooting range, just dont play his game, put snipe on something, or cycle it around, and ping away at him until he commits on YOUR terms. Also remember, just one guy with reach can foil his entire turn, if you aren't shooting or doing orders that turn, go ahead and run, and just run one guy right in his infantrys face, now he has to either
-not move properly, and kill the one guy with the squad, breaking up his formations and generally messing with him
-move something else up to kill the guy who is dancing in their face, which is again wasting resources on one infantry guy, and maybe moving a beast up closer than he likes

to double up, i'm not sure what caster you used, but you could have run /charged one or two infantry, then chain lightninged your own guys in the back, since the arcs don't have to roll to hit you'd bypass stealth /and/ the high defense infantry, boost damage as needed

The warpwolfs have a charge/teleportation range longer then my dwarfs move+5" or charge . Even with checking range it is hard for me to judge the proper distance to not get too close .
I also have no idea how to play against that with cain or darius. Against darius those wolfs will always get the charge off and have a good chance to total my jacks . With cain he is offten away from my infantry and that makes checking range harder..

I was affraid to use more then one chain lightning . Even boosted it doesn't seem to do enough dmg to kill one o those werewolfs.

But the real problem is just that his whole battlegroup is stealhed . I had problems with cryx stealth units too, but at least there were other targets . With this list all I can to is hope that my second line of infantry survives for me to chain lightning , but then am getting very close to his wolfs and against a nemo without focus or little focus , if he slams those chargers I use as LoS blockers I will be close to death even without him hiting me. I will ask my friend to play something else next time , never done something like in my life .

Irris seems to be more of a problems as 3 out of 4 people I play every day seem to be runing her now.

yeah that sounds tough, in general you can operate within other peoples threat range as long as you have dudes in the way, if I have a squad in the way (1/2 models) one or two of which are close to block teleport, and then run a man into the warpwolf, he needs to remove a bunch of models with other stuff before he can get that wolf in.
Remember that he cant move after teleporting, at all, incase you guys were doing that wrong.

I was saying use chain lightning to kill the druids

IMHO you would benefit greatly from a few vassel games, which I would do if I had time :/

He didn't use any.. I probably messed up something , because of the acronim people use here . We call druids the faction , he had caster beasts and shifting stones , no infantry .

Makumba wrote:
He didn't use any.. I probably messed up something , because of the acronim people use here . We call druids the faction , he had caster beasts and shifting stones , no infantry .

okay, so I must have missunderstood earlier when people were talking about def18 druids.

if you could, pop open paint and give us an idea what the critical turns looked like (just colored circles and some arrows work) so I can better understand what he did and what you did in response, and I can show you some ideas.

There is a lot of vague information being thrown around in this thread. Things have been derailed a couple of times at least.

eKaya is the only Circle caster with shadowpack so I presume she's the one giving you trouble. She is a tough caster to beat for anyone. Generally Circle players are highly reliant on their positioning to make big moves so try to interfere with that if you can. Slams and gun mage thunderbolt shots. Circle -and Kaya in particular- are masters of hit and run.

If he doesn't have the unit attachment for the stones you could use a defender to kill them off and disrupt his shenanigans.

By defender you mean a Defender cygnar jack , which I don't own or one of my jacks that I use to defend and block LoS to my caster?


Nobody knows how to deal with Irris? I tried to chain lightning here by runing a charger to her , but it burns a lot of focus and if it doesn't work nemo is dead. I stoped playing darius , which I found the most interesting warcasters , because from the looks of it , she makes him auto lose any game :(

Makumba wrote:
By defender you mean a Defender cygnar jack , which I don't own or one of my jacks that I use to defend and block LoS to my caster?


Nobody knows how to deal with Irris? I tried to chain lightning here by runing a charger to her , but it burns a lot of focus and if it doesn't work nemo is dead. I stoped playing darius , which I found the most interesting warcasters , because from the looks of it , she makes him auto lose any game :(

we mean the warjack called the defender.

as for darius, he's actually more towards your jack centric playstyle, remember his crane action is "within" not "completely within" so you can take a heavy and place it so that the very back of is base is just barely within 1" of where the front of his base started, giving you an extra 3 - 3.5" of extra move, plus charge/reach, and you're launching heavies like cruise missiles,

Minutemen can do bad things to those light skirmish-y solos of any kind, as can Gun Mages, the Black 13th can light her up with their flare, you can shoot jacks/sacrificial pawns/lightning immune guys that you run near her to arc into her, similar to your chain lightning plan (so that charger you run near her, if you hit it with a Storm Gunner or something yeah you'll plink some damage off him, but with proper preparation you won't hurt him too bad, but you'll fry her).


Nemo, Caine and Thor Steinhammer

These are the models that you currently have which have a way of dealing with her without having to get within 5". I wouldn't recommend Thor, but you do seem very light on ways to kill stealthed models. The Arcane Tempest Gun Mages are a brilliant unit with their UA, and well worth picking up.

edit: I just checked, and pCaine doesn't have True Sight? Ouch. Well you can still advance, shoot then teleport back, but that makes it seem like a much less desirable idea...

Played against her all days yestarday , all her versions seem nasty and all seem to kill me . I realy wanted to play darius , but with she seems to make him no viable . I though that maybe his aoe gun would help a bit , but my friends just keep her out of LoS and wait for me to move closer to scoring zones or objectives . Very unfun solo and she is so cheap , I though she would be like 5-6 pts minimum , because she more or less makes the game , if she hits the caster. I'll try to play against different people today ,plus second noob tournament today.

Also, stormcallers can take her because they ignore her super high def and her stealth (if I remember how they work correctly). They are cheap 1 pt solos.

And I know how much it can suck getting rolled by the one model/jack/solo, but stick at it and you'll find a way to make them cry, and enjoy it so very much.

Makumba wrote:


Nobody knows how to deal with Irris? I tried to chain lightning here by runing a charger to her , but it burns a lot of focus and if it doesn't work nemo is dead. I stoped playing darius , which I found the most interesting warcasters , because from the looks of it , she makes him auto lose any game :(

Makumba wrote:Played against her all days yestarday , all her versions seem nasty and all seem to kill me . I realy wanted to play darius , but with she seems to make him no viable . I though that maybe his aoe gun would help a bit , but my friends just keep her out of LoS and wait for me to move closer to scoring zones or objectives . Very unfun solo and she is so cheap , I though she would be like 5-6 pts minimum , because she more or less makes the game , if she hits the caster. I'll try to play against different people today ,plus second noob tournament today.

you can field Eiryss too you know...

As to nasty - she's tricky. She's a high DEF solo, with a few nasty abilities. But she is squishy. get past that def, and she's gone.

Autohitting effects (like chain lightning bounces) are one very nasty way of shredding her, and other high DEF shenanigans. Alternatively, boosting to hit is the other tried and trusted way. nemo needs a 9 on 3 dice - well within average rolls. Other ways of taking her out include running to engage her. she cant shott when shes got a warpwolf in her face now, can she. Other ways include crippling her through feats and spells (various ways of removing actions, nerfing shooting etc).

Regarding Darius - its got little to do with Eiryss if you ask me. he is generally regarded as the weakest of cygnar's casters, even with the boost he got with fielding colossals. he runs jacks well, but thats about it, and this is a game that rewards a combined arms approach, as opposed to jack spam.