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What is the most minor infraction a chapter can do and still be excommunicated and called renegades? Do the Inquistion/ High Lords have as much power as to simply "say" a chapter which has a sterling reputation is actually a heretical institution?

Heresy knows no bounds.
To question the Adeptus Astartes IS Heresy.


Oh wait, you got this idea of an all-seeing Inquisition. Just FYI , they don't. They want everyone to believe, but this is a Galaxy ....

If minor infractions would happen like:

- a bald and shaved space wolf with good manners
- a white scar who hates bikes but loves to live underground
- a Salamander who is afraid of fire
- a Iron Hand who despises tech and wouldn't even use a pointy stick
- a Dark Angel who can't keep a secret and loves to tell stories
- a Blood Angel , with altitude sickness
- a Raven Guard , night-blind and loudmouthed
- a black Templar psyker
- an Ultramarine, that doesn't love his codex sooooo much.

all of them fluff heresies, there would be a chance of substantial accusations.

But usually excommunicate is a pretty major case and not called easily upon the emperors own.
We can't know a minimum premise for heresy allegations because there is no guideline available to us.
The only way to be sure is, they renounced their oaths, go go excommunicate.
Anything else is case by case.

Depends on the chapter. First founding chapters are less likely to be charged simply on the basis of their prestige.

Some other chapters just happen to have a ton of plot armor without any real justification, instead.

Whatever that particular Inquisitor decides, I'd imagine.

But most Inquisitors aren't going to exocommunicate a Marine chapter for very minor gak, they're too useful.

Though there was that one Chapter that got killed by "ork snipers" because it tried to protest one of the Inquisition's purges...

If an Inquisitor can provide enough evidence that there is deviance in a chapter, no matter how minor that deviance is, then he can get them potentially excommunicated and purged. However, this hinges on several factors:

1. The Inquisitor in question has to decide that the loss of an entire Chapter is worth the heresies he discovers.
2. The Inquisitor has to convince the Grey Knights that it's worth their time, or go to the Ecclesiarchy and convince them of his findings in the hope that they'll get the Sisterhood in to purge the Marines. If it's a crusading or fleet-based chapter, he has to do the same with the Munitorum to get them to give him a fleet instead. His only other option is to petition another Astartes chapter, but usually the answer is 'no, we're too busy' because, to some extent, all Chapters are deviant because they tend to follow their chapter cults instead of the Church of the Saviour Emperor's teachings.
3. The Inquisitor has to avoid being himself declared renegade for attempting to accuse a Marine Chapter, who are one of the Imperium's most precious resources.

 Troike wrote:
Whatever that particular Inquisitor decides, I'd imagine.

But most Inquisitors aren't going to exocommunicate a Marine chapter for very minor gak, they're too useful.

Though there was that one Chapter that got killed by "ork snipers" because it tried to protest one of the Inquisition's purges...

Yeah, wasn't there something in the 3rd edition Assassins Codex that implied something like it was a Callidus Assassin that managed to make the Crimson Fist incident look like a lucky shot? Something like it was a very well executed sabotage?

As far as I'm aware, what usually happens is a crusade into the Eye of Terror for X amount of years, if they come back out, good for them, if they don't then they've taken a few demons with them..

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
As far as I'm aware, what usually happens is a crusade into the Eye of Terror for X amount of years, if they come back out, good for them, if they don't then they've taken a few demons with them..

I have to say, it seems like a silly idea to send a chapter you suspect of disloyalty into the biggest source of traitors and corruption in the galaxy.

Though maybe they'd just purge ones that they felt would be disloyal enough to actually defect.

It's not necessarily a crusade in to the eye itself, but a crusade nonetheless.

What about that crusade for the judged.

 Melissia wrote:
It's not necessarily a crusade in to the eye itself, but a crusade nonetheless.

Look in the CSM 'Dex, all those dang chapters that turned to Chaos from the crusade into the Eye of Terror, and it also happens in.. Dawn of War II I think ;D

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
it also happens in.. Dawn of War II I think ;D

You get sent on a crusade there in the ending of Chaos Rising if your corruption is at a certain level.

Also, some fans speculate that Force Commander Hairgel and Thaddeus were sent crusading there in Retribution, since they're absent at that point.

I could totally see some devious Inquisitor deliberately excommunicating an entire chapter for no reason in order to bring one of his other plans to fruition. I'm not sure what those plans might be, but Inquisitors are known for near-Tzeentch levels of trickery at times.

I would think that in order to get a entire chapter declared heretical, it would have to go all the way to the High lords..since they are the ones that ok making new chapters , it would figure they are the ones with the big red Heresy stamp.

Lower level Inquisition types may make reports and inquiries , and request stuff, but something that important has to reside in the hands of the people that make the call to raise chapters.

Not saying that a devious , conniving , plotting Inquisitor could not falsify or concoct some evidence...

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I would think that in order to get a entire chapter declared heretical, it would have to go all the way to the High lords

Not really. Many Inquisitors have the pull and power to do it by themselves.

I think it depends on chapter reputation (read : GW sales)..
In theory "I" has that privilege but in reality not so much...

 Troike wrote:


Though there was that one Chapter that got killed by "ork snipers" because it tried to protest one of the Inquisition's purges...

Poor Celestial Lions, all the Apothecaries getting sniped by that accurate fire the Orks are known for!

Flanker wrote:Poor Celestial Lions, all the Apothecaries getting sniped by that accurate fire the Orks are known for!

A great piece of fluff, even moreso as it a very tragic occurrence rather than "Epic Battle #993". Made me appreciate the Celestial Lions, and ultimately play one in an RPG campaign.
Although this incident may not exactly qualify for the topic at hand, given that this was an "inofficial" purge rather than "proper" excommunication.

Anyways, here is an online backup from the Index Astartes article "Rogue Sons" that got printed in WD #303. It contains some very cool background concerning when a Chapter would be excommunicated, and who is called in to do the deed.
In addition, it also includes the account of how the Sons of Malice got excommunicated, which is probably a premier example of the "minimum premise" mentioned in the topic.

Also, here is one of the last news entries from the official Armageddon 3 campaign website, mentioning the Flesh Tearers as close to being excommunicated.

Ugh, Sons of Malice. Hate that poorly written piece of childish garbage.

as far as the Son's of Malice little text box story goes...I can sum it up thusly.


crazy train from astartes to cannibal marines...heres your cookie.

BTW : Lynata nice link lot of cool info there

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
as far as the Son's of Malice little text box story goes...I can sum it up thusly.


crazy train from astartes to cannibal marines...heres your cookie.

BTW : Lynata nice link lot of cool info there

About what I thought too. Also, Soo, join the RP I posted