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Those images have nothing to do with this thread, maybe it's a fault in the link, insinuating something sinister going on seems a little like trolling.
Tyranid painter has asked for advice and taken it, leaving to a vast improvement in his painting skills, and lets face it , who hasn't ever clicked on a link and ended up somewhere completely different to their intended destination

 Jstncloud wrote:


While the OP may not have done this, someone did. I was only pointing out how I came to this thread, expecting to preview more of this awesome work only to find the links were false. *Shrug* Info is out there, whether the OP is friends with the dude who submitted those or not the linking to the thread is misleading.

but, this is how a lot of the forums work. Conversation is initiated, references are made to other threads images, and discussion continues. Otherwise it's like yelling into a canyon: you'll only hear your own voice calling back at you.

If you want to see glorious gallery images.... there is a function for that on this website, along with another site called "Cool mini or not".

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Okay, I'm thinking there is a disconnect here...

Neither of the two images you linked were painted or uploaded to Dakka by the OP of this thread. The third link, the list of images that were painted by "Ghool" don't show either of the first two images that you linked. The OP of this thread (unless I'm missing something due to workblock) has never claimed to paint those miniatures...


Edit: I think you're talking about the post that neal1975 made and The post Thokt made, quoting the "mini freek"?

Right off the page:
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-pp-minis/skarre_new.jpg
http://handcannononline.com/wp-content/gallery/ghools-non-pp-minis/ice_queen_comp.jpg

Corrected Dakka Links:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513196-Dark%20Elves%2C%20Snow.html
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/513195-.html

While the OP may not have done this, someone did. I was only pointing out how I came to this thread, expecting to preview more of this awesome work only to find the links were false. *Shrug* Info is out there, whether the OP is friends with the dude who submitted those or not the linking to the thread is misleading.

There is nothing misleading about the linking to this thread if you actually read the thread instead of trying to be some sort of whistleblower. The user, Thokt, who uploaded the pictures then added them to a reply stating his opinion that the OP might be in over his head about starting a commission business. That post his here:

Here's a little tid bit to give a better grasp on how tough the commission road can be:

From Mini Freek:

"No Longer Accepting Commissions!
Due to my finances needing a bit of a lift, I'm going to be going back to work full-time, as my commissions pay me about 50% of minimum wage. It's a tough decision to make, but I'd like to attend some more conventions next year, and in order to do-so, I have to increase my income substantially."

Examples of his work:

So yes, the "info is out there"... if you read the thread.

And now the connection between the images and this thread is clear, this would have been prevented if the images had descriptions stating why the links were there (how was I to know he had a thread, I was directed to this one).

Also, for the sake of the original poster sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. Honest mistake on my part and hopefully those who have read these responses (and my apology) understand where I was coming from.

I went back and found the page in the thread were the images I had found while surfing were used and I understand what point the post was trying to get across, however I had no idea those were even in the thread to begin with nor why they were linking here, now I do. As stated a description on the images would have been useful, honest mistake and I apologize again for all of the off topic posts that have been spawned because of it.

For what it is worth if it has not been said already (and it may very well have been, but I obviously haven't read all 9 pages of this thread) here are some great YouTube channels that have users who generate great tutorials:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0vYyCks8CDWZBHz-qtZhbA
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsVtZ8SRClYf4tPzy8HjNtA

If those have not been presented previously I hope that you find them useful

Again, my apologies for the mishap here.

Good luck with your commission painting and I hope to see more of your photos soon, I do spend more time than I should browsing the 'vote on images' thingy.

Sounds like you've got a lot of forums to straighten out bub.

TP, your stuff is looking better. Kudos.

Thokt wrote:
Sounds like you've got a lot of forums to straighten out bub.

TP, your stuff is looking better. Kudos.

Should probably slap a description on your two images that link here bub, that would have really helped clear this mess up because at first glance it is an easy mistake to make (the one I obviously did).

Dude, there is nothing to get to the bottom of, there is nothing "fishy" going on here, no one is getting hoodwinked, nothing nefarious needs to be exposed for the good of the people. You are tilting at windmills here.

The guy doesn't have his own thread that the pictures were posted to: he replied to this one, it is on page 4 toward the bottom!

Please, instead of automatically assuming that someone trying to do something naughty, read the entire thread before posting nonsense and derailing the topic.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Dude, there is nothing to get to the bottom of, there is nothing "fishy" going on here, no one is getting hoodwinked, nothing nefarious needs to be exposed for the good of the people. You are tilting at windmills here.

The guy doesn't have his own thread that the pictures were posted to: he replied to this one, it is on page 4 toward the bottom!

Please, instead of automatically assuming that someone trying to do something naughty, read the entire thread before posting nonsense and derailing the topic.

I made my apologies, however this is an honest mistake. What if I had found those images linking here and he 'didn't' post in this thread? What if he had posted them elsewhere? It is entirely possible to miss information, the connections were made and I have seen them, made my apologies and understand what the situation is.

No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

Dude it's all good, this thread has helped me and probably countless other people, not least the op.
now can we please get back on topic and do what this forum is intended for. Tyranidpainter. Keep it up dude, you're an example to us all.
I thought I was good until I saw what others could do

 Jstncloud wrote:

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

given your affiliation with B4H, I would think long and hard just what it was that I typed out, given how it might impair the pubic perception of the company you work for as being lazy and unengaged, and then indignant when having it pointed out to you that you are being lazy...

The topical content has changed, but the content is still the same which is "want cheap professionally painted warhammer?" and one of those ways is to do it yourself, and a great deal of what's discussed in this thread, along with linked images, is what to do and how to do it, and how to emulate it. To that regard, where this theme is concerned, OP was advised how to improve painting, and along the way, many others picked up a lot of tips. With this thread approaching 9'000 views, you're the only one to raise a complaint about the presence of inferior and superior work side-by-side... which strikes me as very strange given it's difficult to assess one's progress or the reality of one's own talent without comparing it against others' work.

 Jstncloud wrote:

Thokt wrote:
No mess here, you're the only confused party.

Sigh, confused because I found images linking here, images with votes (that should have had voting disabled) and I did not understand why. It is entirely possible for someone other than myself to see those same images think 'these are awesome!' and then see the first post with images in this thread and go 'hmmm something is weird here.'

It is possible for this to happen again, it would be helpful for a quick description to be on those images, but alas I am wrong on all points apparently.

Why can't you seem to understand that you're the only one confused here? I repeat, you're the ONLY person in this entire thread to have this issue. Are you on some kind of medication that impairs logical thought patterns and reading comprehension?

Anyways, back on topic: have you got any more updates for us, 'Nid painter? I'd really like to see how that big 'Nid is turning out!

~Tim?

+1 to tim. Please don't let this thread get locked due to trolling.its a genuine gold mine of information. And even better nidpainter has become one of us, ie someone who wants to improve and grow as anARTIST.. Sit back and learn, or don't post.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Why can't you seem to understand that you're the only one confused here? I repeat, you're the ONLY person in this entire thread to have this issue. Are you on some kind of medication that impairs logical thought patterns and reading comprehension?

Anyways, back on topic: have you got any more updates for us, 'Nid painter? I'd really like to see how that big 'Nid is turning out!

~Tim?

Woah woah woah, calm down there. I don't want any fallouts........well any MORE fallouts on this thread. And fyi he's not the only one that's confused. Being the OP I have realy tried to understand what on earth has just happend but I havn't got a clue. Oh well, if it's been sorted now I'll not worry myself with it. I'd appriciate it if we can just forget about it now and get back to the topic at hand. Thanks for sticking up for me though Tim. As for the Swarmlord, well the Swarmlord is finished however I have magnetized it and am now working on it's other limbs. I'll upload a pic when I can though. No promisses as to when that minght be though :(. I think I've hit a brick wall with my painting though. I think this should get a 7 on CMON but if not I'm going to keep going untill I knock down that brick wall and am classed as a proffesional. Even if that mean I'm still painting warhammer as an old man lol.

TP: One f. Two s's.

As for the fallout on this thread, that gets two f's and an s.

I'd strongly advise against spraying washes. You'll learn more from working by hand and directing them. Later on you might spray them as a filter occasionally, but even that is more likely to be a custom mix.

In more than 4 years pro work (and 25 years painting) I think of sprayed wash maybe twice. And those were (failed) experiments.

The only time I've sprayed a wash I managed to use alot more paint than I'd of ever done by hand and mist it largely over my windowsill without really getting a good shadow effect in the crevices that I needed. Not that this is definately going to happen and for those who know what they're doing its probably a really rookie error but washing by hand is so simple its largely not worth the rish.

winterdyne wrote:
TP: One f. Two s's.

As for the fallout on this thread, that gets two f's and an s.

I'd strongly advise against spraying washes. You'll learn more from working by hand and directing them. Later on you might spray them as a filter occasionally, but even that is more likely to be a custom mix.

In more than 4 years pro work (and 25 years painting) I think of sprayed wash maybe twice. And those were (failed) experiments.

That's really good to know, was thinking about giving it a go (got an airbrush recently...ish).

Kinda lurking on this one, but really enjoying the concise advice here, especially from Winterdyne and Some_Call_Me_Tim

I've got some tints that work well in an airbrush (Minitaire Ghost tints), but they are most definitely NOT washes. hand paint the washes on.

Gotta say. Props to the OP for starting off this enormous collection of painting wealth !

And I'm liking his Swarmlord so far. Looks pretty nice and can't wait to see it finished.

Well I tried using normal GW paints in the spray gun last night and even though I waterd it down abit too much it stilll used an insane ammount of it and the quality was pathetic. I think it's worth the extra effort to get a good quality model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rite. Well you asked for it and here it is. My complete Swarmlord. i so hope it gets a 7 on CMON:



.
I thinking of getting my own camera tomorrow. A better one than my fathers so the quality should turn out better. Anyway tell me what you think. I want to know all the positives and negatives you can point out. Any thoughts on improvements?

My only major criticism would be the swords are a bit bland. The rest is looking pretty good!

Don't be too disheartened if it doesn't get a 7 though. Cmon can be a pretty tough crowd.

Feathering still needs practice, your colour changes are pretty obvious still. I'd guess this is going to pull around 5.6 to 6 given the current photos. You could possibly push it more toward the 6 side with better shots on a gradient backdrop.

Base is a little sloppy, messy on the rim and over heavy with the static grass. Small patches of grass work better than trying to fill the base.

With photography, the real essentials are good lighting, a tripod and a neutral backdrop so your camera can auto-adjust exposure.

CMON is brutal sometimes.

re: tripod. So long as your camera has a timer on it, and you can tilt the camera without the tripod, you should be fine.

I agree that the swords look "bland", but I'm not sure I have a problem with that.

lastly, I see that you did some highlighting on the skin, but the ribcage could probably use a bit of touch ups, along with some bits on the legs, and a tiny bit of the tail. The head looks fantastilicious though.

and it looks like you need a bit of practice with the static grass, I'm sad to say it really doesn't look good. You still need to apply sand to the base, and paint it up to look like dirt/mud/etc, and then apply the grass sparingly. Because you can see through the grass, it's important to have that texture there, as it will make the grass look more convincing. lastly, there's a specific technique to static grass. Dab on some glue where you want it, sprinkle it on, let it sit for a minute or so, and then tap all the excess off, and then the tricky part, flick the model/base. Everyone will tell you different ways of flicking it, some will flick the model by holding it in their hands and snapping their wrist out, others just hold the model upside down while the glue is a little more fluid and just tap away at the underside of the base until the grass is more upright than horizontal.

if I start model assembly, the very first thing I do now is fluff up the base if I don't have any prepared, until I have 20-30 bases ready to go. Once those are set, I will proceed with the rest of the model (I'm lazy, so I don't do the model separately from the base when it comes to painting) It's easier than gluing the model to the base and then trying to figure out how not to ruin the work I did on the legs as I apply basing material.

Oh, and this tip helped me massively. Hold down the camera's "take photo" button halfway and it should focus on the miniature. The tripod is also really necessary. I put it on a 5 second timer so it doesn't have any shake at all, after setting the focus with the half-press.

I like to use a blue to white gradient background, other people love the clouds backgrounds, but white works too.

EDIT: Removed the image as it appears to have broken already. Pfft.

As someone who's also trying to transition my hobby into a small studio, and learning my own lessons, I figure it wouldn't hurt to toss a few ideas out.

Since I'm a builder, not a painter, I'll leave the painting advice to those who have much more experience in that area. What I can say is be careful of labour, speed is of the essence, and hours can slip by quickly. Unless, you can charge a premium for your time, for a premium product. Anyone can try to paint for profit, only those who can get good results quickly (read: affordable) will actually be successful. It's a win-win; Your customer gets a competitive price and you make more per model if you can be efficient. But I digress...

What I want to comment on is general presentation - most notably, setting up a consistent photo solution. It's been mentioned, but it is a make-or-break step in the presentation of a product, in my opinion. You can spend quite a bit to get something 'professional', but if you scavenge a few things and spend a modest amount on a few things it will be worth it. People will only take you as seriously as the photos you present; A good picture can show an average looking item in a good way, but a bad photo can make a stunning item look like total junk. With that said, a picture is worth a thousand words...



This is my humble setup beside my computer. It's actually too narrow for larger subjects, but I can make do for now if I shoot at good angles. Now I'll ramble a bit about how straight forward this setup is...

Find a cheap table (mine was free, scavenged from the trash, of all places) preferably with wheels so you can roll it out of the way. If you have the space, make a small corner or nook your photo booth. It doesn't have to be large.

The simplest way to get items to 'float' in neutral space, perfect for presentation, is to create a hidden horizon line. It's simple really, just have your backdrop lay under your subject and curve up-and-away behind the subject. No crease in the backdrop makes it seamless and it doesn't distract. A gradual blend of a complimentary or neutral colour is a simple way to add a bit of spice if you want, but white or light grey is the standard. You'll need to find a way to support the backdrop. I used an old magazine rack (again, scavenged from some trash) that can also support a light over my subject, but any simple 'back wall' attached to the table will do. A final word on the backdrop material. I would try to find something easily wiped down. Cloth is a tempting cheap solution, but it can collect/hold dust lint and other distractions. I prefer thick sheet of plastic material. What you use is up to what you can find, but this is food for thought.

You need good light; get 'Cool White' or 'Daylight' bulbs to show colours well. The good thing is you should have this kind of light to paint by, so you can usually borrow those lights. But even investing in a few 'arm lamps' (good because you can adjust them to tailor the lighting) is usually cheap. Note my 'high-end solution' of using a drum stool for my second lamp. For good pictures you want at least 2 (3 or 4 is better) lamps shining light from opposite sides; The lights should cancel each other out, reducing shadows that will hide detail. With a light box you can set the camera up and easily adjust the lights to make an ok picture look great.

Finally the tripod; Mine is a $20 cheapo from a discount store. It's cheap but it works. In a pinch you can use the back of a chair or something else that is the right height to prop the camera on, but a tripod lets you work hands-free. Place your subject, compose the shot, adjust the lighting, and then carefully take your shot. You don't need a high end camera, just something that has a macro function and preferably a 'Manual' mode (My preferred brand is Canon - they make great small studio cameras) so you can adjust some settings. Even on an 'Auto' setting with this simple setup will give very good photos. Also, be sure to shoot on a timer (another advantage of a tripod) so you can press the shutter button, let go of the camera, and let it take the photo. You only need a 1 second delay, and it gives you rock steady photos every time.

Take the effort to do a modest setup like this and you'll get much better feedback on your efforts and present your product in the best possible light. Hope this is useful and not redundant information.

Edit: PS - If you can't afford these things, but you're considering investing in an airbrush, change your priorities. Good photos are a must and the modest cost will pay for itself with improved exposure and product presence producing more sales. An airbrush is a large investment with a steep learning curve that can have costs quickly add up. It's not just the brush, but a compressor, equipment, and time to learn it all. Careful of 'slippery slopes' when considering where to invest capitol and labour.

Well I'm heading to Medowhall tomorrow with my friend so I'll look at getting all this. The camera, the stand and anything else I minght need. Thanks Subtle Discord. You've been very helpful on this front x x

easy easy though, think about your budget, and think about how much of what you can afford right now. I've got a feeling you blew a lot of money.

 TyranidPainter wrote:
i so hope it gets a 7 on CMON:

One suggestion: it sounds like you're a little too focused on getting immediate results as fast as possible. Whether or not a single specific model gets a 7 is irrelevant, what matters is that you learn something from painting it and apply those lessons to the next model. Once you do that the 7s will come, and eventually you'll reach a point where you're consistently painting at a level that people will pay for and doing it quickly enough to make commission painting a viable plan. And note the key point there: consistently. Becoming a good painter isn't about making one good model, it's about making good models over and over again.

Focusing on the immediate feedback means you're going to take shortcuts and rush to "trick" your way into a better score. You might get a 7 for a single model, but you won't learn as much in the long run.

when you do a hobby for money then people do say professional,
but "full time painter" is better