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So heres the deal. My buddy and I got into Warmachine a few months ago, have played 3 games now...and we are left wanting. We are both mecha/big robot fans, and Warmachine looked great with all the warjacks. Sadly we have come to find out that they arent the main focus of the game. Your average game will run 3-5. Thats at best about 1/2 of what we were hoping. Neither of us like infantry very much, and the idea of a huge chunk of our points having to be infantry is off-putting. Things that would have been nice to know before spending a lot of money, and building/painting time, on a game...

Another issue I have is the overall complexity. I find myself staring blankly for far too long, as the amount of options for "what to do now?" is staggering. Flipping through a bunch of cards, reading special rules and spells over and over trying to decide what to do...I hate it. I want a much faster pace.

My first thought was Shockforce/Warengine. The simple addition of a critical damage chart would lend the L/M/H classes a great bit of survivability. However, its too simple for my buddy. He doesnt like the accuracy & strength of weapons being a single attack stat, and the defenses & armor being a single stat.

He wants to create our own game, but being a newbie to tabletop gaming hes hard to work with. Hes used to video games, which can be micro detailed but fast as well. He wants to be able to have all kinds of stats, large damage tracks, things like to hit, armor pen, damage all separate. I cant really get him to grasp that in a tabletop game theres no computer doing that for you, it all takes human work, takes time, and slows things down. Several times I have said to him "if you want to do that, we may as well stick with Warmachine".

So heres the challenge...I need something more detailed than Shockforce, less detailed than Warmachine, but able to use a wide variety of units. Something that can be used to play Warmachine minis, but faster paced, without losing a ton of detail. Like I said, I would be happy with Shockforce, but Im trying to satisfy him as well. The game doesnt have to represent the warcaster well, but the warjacks.

Such a thing might not exist, but figured Id ask...

Try battletech: you can use all mechs, skipping tanks and such, and they have a new rule set called Alpha Strike: it's very quick to learn and takes about an hour and a half to play: here's the lowdown of it: each mech has a point cost in the upper corner. They also have stat points including pilot skill, ballistic skill and movement. You make your movements as an IGYG, but all shooting happens at once. You determine if the shooting is done at short, mid, or long range, and the card for each mech will tell you how many points of damage you do. It's easy to pick up, and will segue into regular, more involved, Battletech rules in the future if you like what you see. Sounds like it might be up your alley.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Try battletech: you can use all mechs, skipping tanks and such, and they have a new rule set called Alpha Strike: it's very quick to learn and takes about an hour and a half to play: here's the lowdown of it: each mech has a point cost in the upper corner. They also have stat points including pilot skill, ballistic skill and movement. You make your movements as an IGYG, but all shooting happens at once. You determine if the shooting is done at short, mid, or long range, and the card for each mech will tell you how many points of damage you do. It's easy to pick up, and will segue into regular, more involved, Battletech rules in the future if you like what you see. Sounds like it might be up your alley.

Probably not going to work for what I need right now...something we can use our Warmachine miniatures in. Im not looking for new miniatures to buy, just rules to use.

I might be able to help with this!

As noted in a post a bit down the page I'm working on a universal rules set. It's got good tactical flexibility without being so ability-heavy as Warmachine. It allows you to use pretty much anything you'd like to use, and as I'm doing open development you're free to make suggestions to improve how it can work for you.

Have a look, see if it's something that'll work for you and your friend, and let me know how it goes.

 Magc8Ball wrote:
I might be able to help with this!

As noted in a post a bit down the page I'm working on a universal rules set. It's got good tactical flexibility without being so ability-heavy as Warmachine. It allows you to use pretty much anything you'd like to use, and as I'm doing open development you're free to make suggestions to improve how it can work for you.

Have a look, see if it's something that'll work for you and your friend, and let me know how it goes.

Ill give it a look. My buddy and I are trying to do our own rules, gonna give Shockforce a try. If he doesnt like it we are going to stick with WM rules until we finish ours...or your if we like that.

I will also toot my own horn and say you should check out the skirmish rules I currently have under development : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/532975.page

They are a little more boardgame-ish than other miniature rules and not as far along as the Aetherverse rules set but I have used them with my Warmachine miniatures.

In the news forum, Paulson Games is developing Mecha Front, it'll probably have a kickstarter soon.

It's basically a 15mm giant mech game, but without the baggage of Battletech, and a helluva lot better mecha designs.

I'd take a look at the following

No Quarter: The fantasy version of "No Limits" which is roughly the generic version of VOR.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/noquarter/index.html
A very adaptable ruleset, and it meets the complexity standard you are looking for as being more than WarEngine and less than Warmachine.

Also, look over No Limits, as there may be transferrable concepts, or you may decide to use it instead of No Quarter.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

Interestingly No Limits has released a whole range of stats for AT43 mechs and units, so there may be some useful stats there.

Both rulesets have full unit creation mechanics and online unit creator programs. Not the easiest websites to navigate, but worth the effort.
Best of Luck!

 Eilif wrote:
I'd take a look at the following

No Quarter: The fantasy version of "No Limits" which is roughly the generic version of VOR.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/noquarter/index.html
A very adaptable ruleset, and it meets the complexity standard you are looking for as being more than WarEngine and less than Warmachine.

Also, look over No Limits, as there may be transferrable concepts, or you may decide to use it instead of No Quarter.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

Interestingly No Limits has released a whole range of stats for AT43 mechs and units, so there may be some useful stats there.

Both rulesets have full unit creation mechanics and online unit creator programs. Not the easiest websites to navigate, but worth the effort.
Best of Luck!

If it can do the walkers from AT43 it can likely do warjacks, Ill have to give it a look, thanks.

 Eilif wrote:
I'd take a look at the following

No Quarter: The fantasy version of "No Limits" which is roughly the generic version of VOR.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/noquarter/index.html
A very adaptable ruleset, and it meets the complexity standard you are looking for as being more than WarEngine and less than Warmachine.

Also, look over No Limits, as there may be transferrable concepts, or you may decide to use it instead of No Quarter.
http://wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

Interestingly No Limits has released a whole range of stats for AT43 mechs and units, so there may be some useful stats there.

Both rulesets have full unit creation mechanics and online unit creator programs. Not the easiest websites to navigate, but worth the effort.
Best of Luck!

I will second this. Good games, and they should do exactly what you want.

~Eric