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I'm a fan of the simple raw power approach that the Vindicator embodies but I'm not sure the most recent army releases have kept it as viable as before.

Daemons have a large number of flying MCs who it can't target. It would be a good counter to dog rush if they didn't have a 3++.
Tau has enough S7 that outranges the Demolisher to kill it fast. Weak sides are vulnerable to massed pulse weapons as well. Would be a good Crisis Suit counter if you can see them. Good against Broadsides though.
Eldar is a struggle mostly due to WS's shields ignoring pens. Luckily it's S6 spamming is less of a concern for the Vindicator. Good news is it still crushes wraith troops.

The Thunderer is pretty similar and seems at least reasonably competitive. The Vindicator is a bit less durable, but also costs less. I think I probably prefer the Thunderer, but they both seem to get the job done.

And generally speaking, Marines have fewer high-strength/low-AP options, so the Vindicator has a more secure niche.

Here's the thing about Vindicators, never take just one. One is only useful as a distraction and will die without accomplishing much. Two is respectable, three can change the course of a battle, and in double FOC six brings much lulz.

I'm comparing it to a Predator and in many ways those Lascannons solve most of the problems with lack of range, exposed sides and lack of AA while still maintaining AP2 and high S.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm comparing it to a Predator and in many ways those Lascannons solve most of the problems with lack of range, exposed sides and lack of AA while still maintaining AP2 and high S.

Even with Predators I'd still never take just one. Av13 on it's own is pretty meh. But in large numbers it can be pretty overwhelming.

I'm building an armored list so there will be plenty of AV to spare.

It's more about what's the better option for TAC.
Short range blast seems more limited than long range direct fire.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm building an armored list so there will be plenty of AV to spare.

It's more about what's the better option for TAC.
Short range blast seems more limited than long range direct fire.

Well, Vindicators can instagib the ever annoying Plague marines, which is very nice.

Essentially, if your enemy is using lots of multiwound infantry or termies, vindicators are better, while Laspreds are better at vehicle killing and monstrous creature sniping. Vindicators are essentially deathstar breakers, and I still enjoy the look on the face of a draigowing user back in 5e when my ice dragon vindicators destroyed his entire army in one round of shooting save for Draigo.

Vindicators aren't so hot, at least in my own experience. Cover and GTG can make it damn near useless. The short range and poor side armor means that mobile shooting units can get side arcs and invalidate your very durable Front AV.

If you are going to take them though, i'd run 2 or more. I do think they are better when taken in pairs.

One kind of hilarious idea could be to take 3 vindicators and run them in a "fleur de lis" type shape (don't know what to call it, but all 3 of them together almost touching with one facing straight ahead and the other two slightly staggered back and at 45 odd degree angles).

I'm pretty sure if you did it right you could make it significantly harder to get a side arc shot without obscuring the target or actually being behind the vindicators.

Auto/las preds are not as sexy, low risk, low reward.

Vindis kill anything not flying under the pie plate. But only when they are not smoking rubble.

I personally like the pred better in a TAC list. But you need to respect the pie plate. Sure, you need to move up and expose your weak sides. Then you get to laugh maniacally as you remove giant chunks of your opponent's army. It's a trade off. You willing to accept some risk? Take the Vindi.

Nevelon makes a good point about preds being low risk, low reward.

Vindi's are a good example of a unit that has a very high ceiling, but a very, very low floor. I prefer to have units that fall somewhere in the middle, so I may have just a bit of bias against them.

My vindicator lasted an entire apocalypse game and wrecked face!

Every other game, it dies on turn 1...

Good way of describing it Nevelon.

Predator certainly is a safer choice but it is less glamorous. I also have concerns about drawing LOS with those sponsons.

Yeah, thats always been my issue with Preds. The sponsons are in a terrible spot and the relative lack of mobility really hurts them.

 LValx wrote:
Yeah, thats always been my issue with Preds. The sponsons are in a terrible spot and the relative lack of mobility really hurts them.

I might just bite the bullet and use a Hadesfiend instead of either. More mobile, better side armor at cost of front and better AA.

Losing AP2 would hurt though.

 minigun762 wrote:

 LValx wrote:
Yeah, thats always been my issue with Preds. The sponsons are in a terrible spot and the relative lack of mobility really hurts them.

I might just bite the bullet and use a Hadesfiend instead of either. More mobile, better side armor at cost of front and better AA.

Losing AP2 would hurt though.

I see you're going against the Grain and not just spamming Havocs or Obliterators?

I'd like an armor heavy list, so I'm choosing not to use infantry models.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'd like an armor heavy list, so I'm choosing not to use infantry models.

Ever thought of the Chaos Spartan Assault tank?

Have you considered Maulerfiends? Fairly durable and can be fun and effective to use.

Kain wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
I'd like an armor heavy list, so I'm choosing not to use infantry models.

Ever thought of the Chaos Spartan Assault tank?

Where are the rules for it?

LValx wrote:Have you considered Maulerfiends? Fairly durable and can be fun and effective to use.

Already added. Going to run them beside Spawn.

The first six times I fielded my brand new Chaos vindicator, it died.

In the first turn.

To the first shot fired in the game.

Six times in a row.

SIX!

For the Chaos Spartan rules:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads

 Hedgehog wrote:
The first six times I fielded my brand new Chaos vindicator, it died.

In the first turn.

To the first shot fired in the game.

Six times in a row.

SIX!

Reserves!
Hide it away.
Or quit trying to fight Titans with it

 minigun762 wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
The first six times I fielded my brand new Chaos vindicator, it died.

In the first turn.

To the first shot fired in the game.

Six times in a row.

SIX!

Reserves!
Hide it away.
Or quit trying to fight Titans with it

Manly marines don't shoot the vindicator's gun at the Titan, they try to ram it and make it trip.

Let me break down the standard heavy support options for SM.

You have cheap, dirty tanks, expensive, scrapey tanks and a few infantry a few people like to pretend are useful. Oh, one army also gets this ungodly thing called a thunderfire cannon.

Firstly, Land raiders are the distraction of fifth edition. Put out a bit of hurt, were big, heavy targets with a bit of resilience. IF Sixth edition were to have a comparative, it would be the riptide.

Since Land Raiders aren't too viable anymore as distractions, what with the rules regarding hull points making sure hilarity doesn't ensue, we're left with such beauts as the Whirlwind, Predator and Vindicator.

In newer codexes, the whirlwind is dirt-cheap, and really effective. IT cleans out ADL-hidden pulse rifles and pathfinders like nothing else, all while being out of harm's way. They are cheaper than the other two alternatives and are gaining popularity. Not as good Vs. MEQ, but overpowered VS anything with a 4+ save or worse. Gauge your meta and decide whether the number of games it'll be useful in will be worth your while.

Predators are also really cheap (twice the price of whirlwinds, thereabouts), but can put out 2 reliable, well protected S9AP2 shots and 2 S7AP4 shots. has the range to protect itself, but doesn't have the necessary output to make it worthwhile while things like hammerheads and broadsides exist.

Vindicators are a mediocre option, lacking the range to stay out of trouble and not having the side-protection to survive the trouble. S10AP2 sounds nice on paper until you have to charge it into your opponent's waiting guns. Running six can work, but if your opponent runs a deep-striking farsight bomb, or anything with lots of high toughness, wounds (riptides), you're gonna have a bad time. A riptide costs about the same price as two vindicators, and takes a single wound from both of those vindicators shooting - and hitting - it.

As Chaos I'd really like to bring a Whirlwind or TFC but I think using an allied Skull Cannon might get me similar results.

Skull Cannons are quite nice!

Yes...In BA.

Because fast Vindicators are fast.

And fast predators are fast.

And fast Baal Predators are fast.






...fast.

 minigun762 wrote:

 Hedgehog wrote:
The first six times I fielded my brand new Chaos vindicator, it died.

In the first turn.

To the first shot fired in the game.

Six times in a row.

SIX!

Reserves!
Hide it away.
Or quit trying to fight Titans with it

One of those shots was from a krak missile.

Fired by an Imperial guardsman.

In an infantry squad.

To the front of my Vindicator.

While it was in cover.

No titans in sight

By my math, there is a 0.92% of that happening assuming no twin linking and a 5+ cover save...