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I do not hate Tau, I don't think they are OP. I do think they are the easy mode, though.

There are ways to play them as something else than a static gunline, but majority of the players play them that way. And why wouldn't they? GW gave us the ADL, they want cover to be used. It is easy to sit behind the line and just fire away.

I can see why people are angry. Cover? Not any more. DS? Good luck with the scatter dice and intercept. Outflank? Sorry, can't assault. Get in assault range? Hope your frontlines are not shot to pieces leaving you too far. Fliers? Not a problem..

An army in a shooty edition is further helped by a codex that allows breaking/modifying those rules. That and the sit back and shoot annoy some players.

As I said above, there are counters, but such lists are rarely TAC capable. E.g. as a BA player I am not terribly bothered by Whirlwinds or Thunderfire cannons. I am sure, that certain IG artillery would make me rethink my strategy, but in our group there are no IG players.

 happygolucky wrote:

your sooner going to get a misshap then land near enough to blind and there is no way for chaos to coordinate talons with terminators. You don't have drop pods for them like every other army.

Never Had a mishap with any squad in terms of getting too close to an ADL.

the avarge scater on 2d6 is 7" and warp talons blind range is 6".To get most of a tau line blinded you more or less have to land 5-6" away either in front or in the middle of the ADL. half the time your going to scater away from ADL so the blinding won't work . All of this happens 2/3 of times on turn 2 , so the tau player has either one or two turns of blind free shoting , while you play with a less points then the tau player. And those are more then a few points as neither talons , nor termis cost 0 points.

im gonna ask is it tau totally in general that gets this ire, or is it the tau gunlines mostly?
now im no saint with gunlines, iv played a few noise marine lines and um yeah thats ugly to rush at.. had one nids player define it as a Galipolli action.. 5 marines for 90+ gaunts + biggers toys on the side..

My observations as a Tau player:

Tau are still not sweeping major tournaments.

Tau gunline will not win you the relic mission for example.

If you rely on tabling your opponent to win objective games then you will lose most of the time.

Some armies like Daemons Flying Circus can have an unavoidable assault in turn 2.

Most people don't play with enough LOS blocking terrain.

Makumba wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

your sooner going to get a misshap then land near enough to blind and there is no way for chaos to coordinate talons with terminators. You don't have drop pods for them like every other army.

Never Had a mishap with any squad in terms of getting too close to an ADL.

the avarge scater on 2d6 is 7" and warp talons blind range is 6".To get most of a tau line blinded you more or less have to land 5-6" away either in front or in the middle of the ADL. half the time your going to scater away from ADL so the blinding won't work . All of this happens 2/3 of times on turn 2 , so the tau player has either one or two turns of blind free shoting , while you play with a less points then the tau player. And those are more then a few points as neither talons , nor termis cost 0 points.

And this is the difference: You play Mathhammer 40k, I play Warhammer 40k. The difference? in mathhammer you're always expected to get averages, you don't expect to get high rolls or poor dice rolling. In Warhammer 40k it basically chucks Mathhammer out of the window as it is usually never is on average, you do get the exact rolls you want and you do get poor dice rolls, its the actual game. all Mathhammer is halving your maximum rolling. Warhammer takes in all accounts. its a game of risk, we are using dice for Tzeenches sake! all it will ever be is random dice rolling, as one person said adapt or die, and while that phrase was taken a little to the extreme, to me its basically telling me to use tactics and units that are out of my comfort zone, and to not use "Netlist safety button X and Y" (which is a birth product of Mathhammer).

All Im saying is that Tau (which I do not play as btw) are not OP you just have to use more of variety of lists instead of "easy-safe-button-that-is-always-relied-upon-Netlist-X-and-Y" because quite clearly they are falling to the Tau and people are throwing hissy fits over them, granted the Marker lights seem a bit too good, but then as I have said before you can make those marker lights to the best of your advantage if you play your tactics right, likewise Im also saying to Tau players that they should not feel special and label everyone as "crybabies" when they do have legit concerns when Tau are getting so much hate, GK got it in 5th ed. Vanilla codex got it for being poster boys. BA got them for having so much fast vehicles, DE got the same flakk for poisoned weapons, Necrons got it very much in 6th edition because anything they fielded was really good, CSM got it for Helldrakes, and now Tau are getting it for gun lines that shoot everything without remorse. All recent codex's got the same heat. Your not special. Deal with it.

You know I actually have a loathing for ork armys. But thats really more because all the ork players i have ever played have at some point in the game started screaming waggghhhh. So i guess it's not the army but the players i don't like. But back on topic I have a feeling that alot of the peeps ont this thread are only seeing what they want to see. When people give them multiple suggestions they seem to get it in their heads that they are being told the have to use them all or they lose, not true. Here is a suggestion how about when you want to asualt something, first have a couple of shooty units shoot at everything that is not going to be what you are going to assualt and are in the tau ability range to overwatch. So there will be less stuff to overwatch your assaulty unit. Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau. Salamanders I think would do great with 3 drop pods and 3 dreads with multi-melta and flamer setup. those are some tac setups for some marine variants that i can think of off the of my head.

 starraptor wrote:
Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau.

What a novel idea

 starraptor wrote:
You know I actually have a loathing for ork armys. But thats really more because all the ork players i have ever played have at some point in the game started screaming waggghhhh. So i guess it's not the army but the players i don't like. But back on topic I have a feeling that alot of the peeps ont this thread are only seeing what they want to see. When people give them multiple suggestions they seem to get it in their heads that they are being told the have to use them all or they lose, not true. Here is a suggestion how about when you want to asualt something, first have a couple of shooty units shoot at everything that is not going to be what you are going to assualt and are in the tau ability range to overwatch. So there will be less stuff to overwatch your assaulty unit. Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau. Salamanders I think would do great with 3 drop pods and 3 dreads with multi-melta and flamer setup. those are some tac setups for some marine variants that i can think of off the of my head.

Razorbacks will perform poorly against Tau. Tau have tons of mid strength fire from pulse weapons to seeker missiles, HYMP, and Riptide weapons. You lose razors in droves and then be stuck in no man's land. Drop Pods work well as long as you account for interceptor fire.

 starraptor wrote:
Here is a suggestion how about when you want to asualt something, first have a couple of shooty units shoot at everything that is not going to be what you are going to assualt and are in the tau ability range to overwatch. So there will be less stuff to overwatch your assaulty unit. Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau. Salamanders I think would do great with 3 drop pods and 3 dreads with multi-melta and flamer setup. those are some tac setups for some marine variants that i can think of off the of my head.

yah i think shooting them alot and then assaulting them is a good idea. BA players should think of this stuff.

 daedalus wrote:

 starraptor wrote:
Here is a suggestion how about when you want to asualt something, first have a couple of shooty units shoot at everything that is not going to be what you are going to assualt and are in the tau ability range to overwatch. So there will be less stuff to overwatch your assaulty unit. Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau. Salamanders I think would do great with 3 drop pods and 3 dreads with multi-melta and flamer setup. those are some tac setups for some marine variants that i can think of off the of my head.

yah i think shooting them alot and then assaulting them is a good idea. BA players should think of this stuff.

It's almost as if that's a standard Blood Angels list, meaning it's been tried by most Blood Angel players already...

Necrons... The bane of my existance...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 starraptor wrote:
Here is a suggestion how about when you want to asualt something, first have a couple of shooty units shoot at everything that is not going to be what you are going to assualt and are in the tau ability range to overwatch. So there will be less stuff to overwatch your assaulty unit. Also for the blood angel players out there i recomend trying out bahl preds with flamesorm cannons, and alot of razor backs with msu of jump pack dudes without there jump packs, and basicly the parking garrage list should great i think against tau. Salamanders I think would do great with 3 drop pods and 3 dreads with multi-melta and flamer setup. those are some tac setups for some marine variants that i can think of off the of my head.

yah i think shooting them alot and then assaulting them is a good idea. BA players should think of this stuff.

It's almost as if that's a standard Blood Angels list, meaning it's been tried by most Blood Angel players already...

Well, the last time I played against my roommate and he used his Angels, he didn't use any miniatures. Just a empty list. If only he had this info, he might have done better!

 AtoMaki wrote:

 davou wrote:

In what backwards world are you living if you think there is no utility at all in the units I've suggested beyond killing tau?

In a highly competitive one, full with min-maxed tournament armies and smart WAAC players .

 davou wrote:

But if all your interested in is not having someone knock the pillowfort you've built around hating on this round of meta-shift, then by all means shut the hell up.

Hey, chill, I've never said that I hate anything with the Tau or the meta shift. I don't think that it is terrible only that it is unfair. Big difference. And you said that it is fair, because hey, random counters that either counter or not. And there, we had a disagreement.

I've had a couple of things to say in reply to some more recent posts here defending my previous arguments, but I've refrained... Just thought I'd post now to humble myself an apologize for spitting vitriol earlier; Its easy to forget sometimes that Dakka is a different place than reddit or 4chan. I owe you and at least two other people Sorrys.