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Eldar and humanity are the only onesof that pairing that could form an alliance. Rogue Traders and Inquisitors can cooperate and trade with Eldar, it's not impossible when the state enforced xenophobia is put aside. Necrons, Orks and Tyranids have no capacity for human empathy so simply couldn't cooperate.

The Eldar could form an alliance because the 40k fluff reflects Tolkienesque fantasy where humans, dwarves and elves have a shared distrust but are able to form effective alliances. Similarly in 40k, the Eldar, Humans and Squats, maybe Tau, could cooperate. The rest would be impossible.

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:




1. The galaxy is populated by mostly orks, doesn't mean they own the galaxy.
2. numbers don't mean jack.
3. daemon worlds invaded by orks = dead orks.
4. orks think daemons onboard are amusing, good for them, they still die.

1. Orks hold the most worlds, have the highest numbe, not to mention orks can go pretty much anywhere they want to so I think it is fairly reasonable to say orks own the galaxy.
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbIpgHVHLL4
3. Tell that to the deamon worlds Tuska the Deamonkilla razed to the ground.

MarsNZ wrote:

#5 theres a world in the EoT where a Waaagh fights the same battle every single day for the amusement of Khorne.

I can play "fluff pick'n'mix" too.

This happened to the orks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3ZcZ2h4Ths&t=1m50s

The blood prince on the other hand has face the humiliation everyday.

Chaos was one threat, but the Tyranids are the biggest threat to the galaxy. They don't care about politics or alliances. They are looking for food and the great psychic beacon attracting them to this area.

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:
Nah, Tyranids are the ultimate threat, IMO. They're the ones that would require a mass team-up.

Also, nothing to suggest that there's going to be a mass daemon invasion. If thet could do that, they would've done it already.

Tyranids are weak, they get squished like a bug, sure they can scare a few guardsmen but thats all they could do, cause terror to the mortal races. Against Chaos Tyranids are nothing., no matter how many they send, they are fighting something completely different than what they've been fighting. There is no proof in the fluff that shows tyranid beating a greater daemon/daemon prince. Against the supernatural, Tyranids are gonna get schooled hard. The Hive mind won't be able to understand Chaos no matter how hard it tries to evolve, Chaos is beyond its understanding. Tyranids may be a big threat but its still a mortal threat.

I should point out that Tyranids have harvested entire galaxies before the Milky Way, and that Chaos would have also been present in these galaxies, yet failed to stop the Tyranids.

Also, what we're seeing of the Tyranids right now is merely a vanguard. They have several galaxies worth of biomass behind them, the actual invasion will be unimaginably huge.

And as others have said, 'Nids have beaten Choas plently of times within the 40K fluff. There's also the small matter of them casting a shadow within the Warp and driving psykers insane. They can shut down any supernatural stuff quite easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
You're forgetting that Necrons figured out a way to cut off the Warp from Realspace.

Boom. Chaos is suddenly irrelevant.

We have no proof that this device would even work, and even if it does, chaos would try and stop it. And lets say even if it does work, that means Necrons are chickening out, can't handle being harassed and bullied by chaos.

We also have no proof that Chaos is suddenly going to mass invade the galaxy with Daemons and that everybody would ally up.

 Evileyes wrote:

 VampireDeLaVega wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I doubt it.

Gork and Mork are already more powerful than all of the Chaos gods combined by a vast amount. If the four ever got uppity, they'd just give them a smack so hard even their worshippers would feel it. A blow of such ferocity that planets and stars would be torn asunder from the backlash and daemons would weep in fear and Orks would cry out in joy and everyone else would just get a headache.

Gorks and Morks are a joke compared to the Chaos Gods, Chaos Gods are the strongest and the people usually joke around when they say Gork/Mork are the strongest!!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Troike wrote:
Nah, Tyranids are the ultimate threat, IMO. They're the ones that would require a mass team-up.

Also, nothing to suggest that there's going to be a mass daemon invasion. If thet could do that, they would've done it already.

Tyranids are weak, they get squished like a bug, sure they can scare a few guardsmen but thats all they could do, cause terror to the mortal races. Against Chaos Tyranids are nothing., no matter how many they send, they are fighting something completely different than what they've been fighting. There is no proof in the fluff that shows tyranid beating a greater daemon/daemon prince. Against the supernatural, Tyranids are gonna get schooled hard. The Hive mind won't be able to understand Chaos no matter how hard it tries to evolve, Chaos is beyond its understanding. Tyranids may be a big threat but its still a mortal threat.


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 StarTrotter wrote:
And nids and necrons and orks if they finally united and possibly even the imperium if the Emperor somehow awoke again. Sadly, the more likely answer of the future of 40k is that we'll never get past the 41st millenia xD

Nids, Orks and Necrons are all mortal threats, in movies/series daemons/demons are always the main threat. Imagine a robot, a stupid green orc, and a alien bug fighting against a demon in any movie, yeah i don't think its gonna end well for them.

This all kind of sounds like wishfull thinking. Technically, gork and more -are- more powerful than the other chaos god's combined, because there are more orks than the other sentient races put together (This does not include tyranids, as they share one conciousness, they are not truly sentient in most cases) and chaos god's, including gork and mork, are fueled by those who practice what they stand for. All orks follow what gork and mork stand for, not all other races follow what the chaos god's stand for (Rage, thirst for knowledge, e.x)

However, gork and mork, (thankfully) do not try to meddle in the event's of realspace as the other chaos god's do. They merely are empowered by them.

Tyranid's don't just threaten guardsmen, they threaten the galaxy as a whole, space marines struggle with them, yes space marines can beat them, but the space marines can only be so many places at once, wheras tyranid's could mount simultanious assault's on thousands or more of world's with the sheer number of them there are. It's just a case of those tyranid hive fleet's arriving, as right now, we are only seeing the first few trickles of them entering the galaxy.

Daemons are powerful, yes. I play them, I love them, I love their fluff, but I'm not going to put them on a pedestal. They do not fare well in realspace. They can breach and attack, but they cannot invade as other races can, they are oppertunists, bursting through warprift's as and when they occur. It's rare for them to create one themselves. They also, for the most part, don't want to destroy everyone and everything. Just those who insult them, go against their beleifs, or on the rare occasion, threaten them in some way, as in the case of the emperor.

Hello! I'm a chaos player of both CSM and Chaos Daemons (my heart is with Daemons). Are they extremely powerful? Yes. Do they have daemons that literally, if summoned, spell the end for a planet (Lord of Change Apocolypse)? Yes. Are they a key threat to the imperium? Very much so. But they have flaws and drastic drawbacks. Gork and Mork are only a joke if you mean they don't meddle with reality too busy fighting each other (and watching Waaaghs).

Tyranids? Oh yeah! The lowly gaunt is so squishy! Except hey wait the imperium's guardsman can get ripped apart if they get close enough. Sure a bloodthirster could casually stomp termigaunts, but what about a hive tyrant? This guy isn't a little bug. Actually, for what you claim, fluff says very much different things. Kain? Forgive me if I am wrong, but is there not a small little blurb about Chaos Daemons fighting Tyranids on a planet. It mentions tyrants fighting thirsters whilst the largest of zoanthropes plays a devestating gmae of fireworks with his good ol' pal LoC. The imperium came in, said nope, and exterminated the planet. There isn't much fluff of tyranids beating daemons in fluff but how often do you read of the opposite? Let us expand on that. Most of the fluff is imperial biased meaning it is imperialvchaos imperialvnids imperialvetc. Expanding on that, the hivemind can focus thought into MAGIC BLASTS! that or use the warp free from chaos gods so I wouldn't say they are sooo weak.


Except in terminator, alien films, etc. In 40k, daemons are threatening for their true might in real space but what truly makes them the great enemy of the imperium is what they can and have done. They can, in a single night, make a thousand planets revolt. They can corrupt half of the primarchs that were believed to be perfect. They can corrupt the greatest of men and even change the fates. Whilst their own existence in reality is temporary, they can plant seeds of corruption which eventually sprout into a beautiful seed of stagnation.

Necrons are a threat. Tyranids are a threat. The forces of chaos are a threat. Orks are a threat. And in the far flung future, if chaos doesn't make the imperium collapse on itself and somehow spit a new eye of terror, necrons don't whipe the rest out, orks don't unite, or tyranids don't just omnom everything up, then the Tau will sweep in and likely conquer what was once imperial. The only thing more threatening about chaos is the stagnation and corruption they can leave and the reality that all that they are is your soul.... your dreams... your wishes.

Inb4 GW changes tyranids into hippies and all that we have seen is it they are a dying race barely living, necrons will suddenly all be flayed ones, orks will somehow become the least populated race and GW makes CD into satanic monstrosities finally utterly throwing away the original theme of chaos

The battle you are referring to is the battle of Sondheim V. Once again Chaos was blind sided.

It seems that typical methods of foresight are ineffective against the Tyranids. Chaos, the Imperium, nor the Eldar have been particularly good at foreseeing bug induced doom despite all three having potent methods of divination.

This leads me to theorize that the shadow in the warp interferes with foresight powers, meaning all you get is a vague sense of doom approaching rather than anything specific.

Lets not forget that necrons are immune to corruption from chaos since they are blanks which is why they are incapable of traveling through the warp. So chaos will have little to no effect on the necrons even if chaos tried.

Even if the necrons all turn into flayed ones their empire will still exist. We have evidence of this in the fluff with the Bone Kingdom of Drazak and with the Corpse Lord of the Blood Palace employed by the Sautekh Dynasty

 Kain wrote:
The battle you are referring to is the battle of Sondheim V. Once again Chaos was blind sided.

It seems that typical methods of foresight are ineffective against the Tyranids. Chaos, the Imperium, nor the Eldar have been particularly good at foreseeing bug induced doom despite all three having potent methods of divination.

This leads me to theorize that the shadow in the warp interferes with foresight powers, meaning all you get is a vague sense of doom approaching rather than anything specific.

M'kar the punching bag of chaos xD. Grey Knights, Nids, and Ultramaaaahrinez! Something about M'kar just begs for him to die all the time he he.

*facepalms* and I just read that grey knights went in there to get a tome. Got press ganged by the two sides and ordered that a bombardment be commenced on the planet where their SUPERIOR armour protected them perfectly but the forces of Chaos and Tyranids were brutally devestated. *shakes head* If chaos and nids need to team up. It is to wipe the floor of GK which somehow can't handle being smashed between daemons and nids but a bombardment is nothing to them.

 StarTrotter wrote:


M'kar the punching bag of chaos xD. Grey Knights, Nids, and Ultramaaaahrinez! Something about M'kar just begs for him to die all the time he he.

Poor ol' M'kar's suffering is at an end now though. Uriel Ventris and Calgar teamed up and inflicted "true death" on him, killing him forever. Calgar now has to go back to punching out Avatars.

Xyptc wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:


M'kar the punching bag of chaos xD. Grey Knights, Nids, and Ultramaaaahrinez! Something about M'kar just begs for him to die all the time he he.

Poor ol' M'kar's suffering is at an end now though. Uriel Ventris and Calgar teamed up and inflicted "true death" on him, killing him forever. Calgar now has to go back to punching out Avatars.

I don't get how he even became a Daemon Prince, all he did was get stabbed by a loyalist.

 Kain wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:


M'kar the punching bag of chaos xD. Grey Knights, Nids, and Ultramaaaahrinez! Something about M'kar just begs for him to die all the time he he.

Poor ol' M'kar's suffering is at an end now though. Uriel Ventris and Calgar teamed up and inflicted "true death" on him, killing him forever. Calgar now has to go back to punching out Avatars.

I don't get how he even became a Daemon Prince, all he did was get stabbed by a loyalist.

Perhaps the gods thought it was funny so they made him a prince to watch in humour?

Would it be possible to somehow plug the Eye of Terror with the Hive Fleet? Although I guess that if the Fleet is after the Astronomicon (or whatever throbbing warp-pulse the carrion-lord is exuding) it would involve some kind of giant sled to carry him over to Cadia as bait.

Just a thought.

 CurryMaster wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow plug the Eye of Terror with the Hive Fleet? Although I guess that if the Fleet is after the Astronomicon (or whatever throbbing warp-pulse the carrion-lord is exuding) it would involve some kind of giant sled to carry him over to Cadia as bait.

Just a thought.

If you could encompass the eye of terror with the shadow in the warp, chaos would not be able to get in or out.

 Kain wrote:

 CurryMaster wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow plug the Eye of Terror with the Hive Fleet? Although I guess that if the Fleet is after the Astronomicon (or whatever throbbing warp-pulse the carrion-lord is exuding) it would involve some kind of giant sled to carry him over to Cadia as bait.

Just a thought.

If you could encompass the eye of terror with the shadow in the warp, chaos would not be able to get in or out.

Do you think there'll be some sort of backlash? like the whole antimatter-matter collision?

Plus without the unifying threat of chaos, the Imperium may disolve back into fiefdoms like Marine controlled space, and Ecclesiarchy. Yes the alien threat is still around, but a dissolution of central power may give rise to mini-empires of humanity where psychers are accepted as the next phase of human evolution.

 CurryMaster wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 CurryMaster wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow plug the Eye of Terror with the Hive Fleet? Although I guess that if the Fleet is after the Astronomicon (or whatever throbbing warp-pulse the carrion-lord is exuding) it would involve some kind of giant sled to carry him over to Cadia as bait.

Just a thought.

If you could encompass the eye of terror with the shadow in the warp, chaos would not be able to get in or out.

Do you think there'll be some sort of backlash? like the whole antimatter-matter collision?

Plus without the unifying threat of chaos, the Imperium may disolve back into fiefdoms like Marine controlled space, and Ecclesiarchy. Yes the alien threat is still around, but a dissolution of central power may give rise to mini-empires of humanity where psychers are accepted as the next phase of human evolution.

Ermm...You are seriously underestimating the sheer magnitude the threat that xenos like the Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons provide. Even without Chaos cults from the eye of terror (which is not the only place where chaos comes out of), you still have genestealer cults, mindshackled puppets, and tau traders trying to infiltrate the Imperium. You still have the untold hordes of the Orks, the vast swarm of the Tyranids, and the unliving legions of the Necrons, any of which could destroy everything the Emperor worked so hard to accomplish if his Imperium lets itself slip back to the times of the age of strife.

 Kain wrote:

 CurryMaster wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 CurryMaster wrote:
Would it be possible to somehow plug the Eye of Terror with the Hive Fleet? Although I guess that if the Fleet is after the Astronomicon (or whatever throbbing warp-pulse the carrion-lord is exuding) it would involve some kind of giant sled to carry him over to Cadia as bait.

Just a thought.

If you could encompass the eye of terror with the shadow in the warp, chaos would not be able to get in or out.

Do you think there'll be some sort of backlash? like the whole antimatter-matter collision?

Plus without the unifying threat of chaos, the Imperium may disolve back into fiefdoms like Marine controlled space, and Ecclesiarchy. Yes the alien threat is still around, but a dissolution of central power may give rise to mini-empires of humanity where psychers are accepted as the next phase of human evolution.

Ermm...You are seriously underestimating the sheer magnitude the threat that xenos like the Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons provide. Even without Chaos cults from the eye of terror (which is not the only place where chaos comes out of), you still have genestealer cults, mindshackled puppets, and tau traders trying to infiltrate the Imperium. You still have the untold hordes of the Orks, the vast swarm of the Tyranids, and the unliving legions of the Necrons, any of which could destroy everything the Emperor worked so hard to accomplish if his Imperium lets itself slip back to the times of the age of strife.

fair enuf

I could see them stealing an idea from Starcraft and luring the Nids into the war zone, throwing a hive fleet or two against the Chaos forces. The Nids get wiped out but inflict massive casualties. The Imperium, possibly with small groups of Eldar allies, finish the job. The Tau get their first real encounter with the Dark Gods' minions, freak out, and join the fray in the name of the greater good. The more cunning Ork bosses hold back, waiting to pick off the victors. The Necron dynasties definitely hold back, preparing to finish off everyone.

The Emperor unleashes his remaining power and spirit to strike Abaddon from afar, breaking his offensive. The Emporer is then truly gone, leaving humanity broken and scattered, easy picking for the Xenos.

Since Matt Ward likely writes this story, Marneus Calgar is appointed supreme commander of the Imperium's forces, a de facto leader of humanity. Then he uses the combined might of the Space Marines to reestablish order and makes Ultramar the center of the Imperium. Then everyone reading his story gets diabetes.

 A GumyBear wrote:
Lets not forget that necrons are immune to corruption from chaos since they are blanks which is why they are incapable of traveling through the warp. So chaos will have little to no effect on the necrons even if chaos tried.

Even if the necrons all turn into flayed ones their empire will still exist. We have evidence of this in the fluff with the Bone Kingdom of Drazak and with the Corpse Lord of the Blood Palace employed by the Sautekh Dynasty

Necrons are not blanks, and can be mutated by the forces of the Warp. Their own Codex notes that, of all the enemies they've seen in the 41st millennium, Chaos is the most troublesome, as the hyperdimensional sciences of the Necrons are no match for the reality-twisting nature of daemons.

 Psienesis wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Lets not forget that necrons are immune to corruption from chaos since they are blanks which is why they are incapable of traveling through the warp. So chaos will have little to no effect on the necrons even if chaos tried.

Even if the necrons all turn into flayed ones their empire will still exist. We have evidence of this in the fluff with the Bone Kingdom of Drazak and with the Corpse Lord of the Blood Palace employed by the Sautekh Dynasty

Necrons are not blanks, and can be mutated by the forces of the Warp. Their own Codex notes that, of all the enemies they've seen in the 41st millennium, Chaos is the most troublesome, as the hyperdimensional sciences of the Necrons are no match for the reality-twisting nature of daemons.

Necrons do however have the best anti-chaos tech. There was that baseball sized device in the word bearer's trilogy that could shut off the warp across an entire solar system, and of course the Pylons which can tell the Eye of Terror itself to feth off.

The Tyranids though seem to be the ultimate end of Chaos, by destroying all life in the galaxy, chaos will die with nothing to feed it, and it will get increasingly blotted out by the shadow in the warp. .

Until a Hive Ship gets Corrupted, and then it's all over.

One day... one day Nids and chaos will combine and brofist with Necrons. Then... then the universe will be the feasting grounds for the TyraKhorSlaNurgleentch Metal bots and the campaign shall hunt through the multiverse.

 Psienesis wrote:
Until a Hive Ship gets Corrupted, and then it's all over.

Singular hive ships can be corrupted. Entire hive fleets? No.

The Hive Mind is definitively stronger than Chaos, as is evidenced by the Shadow in the Warp blocking out their influence and the Tyranids repeatedly curbstomping it's followers virtually every time they have a stand up fight.

 StarTrotter wrote:
One day... one day Nids and chaos will combine and brofist with Necrons. Then... then the universe will be the feasting grounds for the TyraKhorSlaNurgleentch Metal bots and the campaign shall hunt through the multiverse.

Needs more Orks.

 Psienesis wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
Lets not forget that necrons are immune to corruption from chaos since they are blanks which is why they are incapable of traveling through the warp. So chaos will have little to no effect on the necrons even if chaos tried.

Even if the necrons all turn into flayed ones their empire will still exist. We have evidence of this in the fluff with the Bone Kingdom of Drazak and with the Corpse Lord of the Blood Palace employed by the Sautekh Dynasty

Necrons are not blanks, and can be mutated by the forces of the Warp. Their own Codex notes that, of all the enemies they've seen in the 41st millennium, Chaos is the most troublesome, as the hyperdimensional sciences of the Necrons are no match for the reality-twisting nature of daemons.

What page is it on? I'm really bad at spotting individual pieces off fluff without having a big title to tell me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And also it notes that they have the most trouble (or at least Imotekh does) with the orks because they do not think with logic (or something along the lines of them not using logic)

 Psienesis wrote:
Until a Hive Ship gets Corrupted, and then it's all over.

When a single hive ship is corrupted by anything, the hive mind cuts it free. It's already happened (in the Storm of Iron books, the Iron Warriors use a corrupted Hive ship).

Corrupting/poisoning/etc Hive ships and Tyranids in general gets tried quite often. The Hive Mind always reacts the same way - it finds a way to stop it. Nothing in existing fluff suggests it's possible to use any form of corruption to the Tyranids that will have any lasting effect, as anything that works once never works again, and never lasts long.

Theoretically a self-mutating virus could wipe out the Tyranid race, one that mutates faster than the hivemind can adapt. If that comes from anywhere it's most likely to be Nurgle.

MarsNZ wrote:
Theoretically a self-mutating virus could wipe out the Tyranid race, one that mutates faster than the hivemind can adapt. If that comes from anywhere it's most likely to be Nurgle.

Theoretically Tyranids could make a spore that reduces biological entities to biomass sludge, never needing to touch the ground to kill a population.

They haven't done it in the fluff.

It's useless arguing theoreticals with 40k because theoretically anything could be done. That's why fluff debates tend to stick to established fluff, not fanfiction.

In established fluff, the most virus or corruption has done is wipe out a tendril before being stopped (and that has only, IIRC, happened once), and never works again. The Hive Mind is described as being very adept at finding a way to fight them, and afterwards spread the cure to every Tyranid fleet. Anything it can't fight simply gets cut loose and abandoned so it doesn't spread.

 -Loki- wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Theoretically a self-mutating virus could wipe out the Tyranid race, one that mutates faster than the hivemind can adapt. If that comes from anywhere it's most likely to be Nurgle.

Theoretically Tyranids could make a spore that reduces biological entities to biomass sludge, never needing to touch the ground to kill a population.

They haven't done it in the fluff.

Whereas the Imperium has done just that, many times in the fluff.

I agree though, the whole 'my race is better than yours' is silly. Some people seem to view a theoretical as a personal attack on their plastic soldiers.

MarsNZ wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Theoretically a self-mutating virus could wipe out the Tyranid race, one that mutates faster than the hivemind can adapt. If that comes from anywhere it's most likely to be Nurgle.

Theoretically Tyranids could make a spore that reduces biological entities to biomass sludge, never needing to touch the ground to kill a population.

They haven't done it in the fluff.

Whereas the Imperium has done just that, many times in the fluff.

And it hasn't worked, in the fluff. They tend to kill a few hive ships and then never work again ever against any fleet because the Tyranids have adapted.

Theoretically they can do it. It hasn't worked well at all yet, in the fluff.

Theoretically every race can do a lot of things they haven't yet done.

MarsNZ wrote:
I agree though, the whole 'my race is better than yours' is silly. Some people seem to view a theoretical as a personal attack on their plastic soldiers.

I just view it as fanfiction, and nothing better. Because that's all it is. What gets me is when people say 'well in my fluff it can happen'. That's great, but when debating fluff, you can't bring your own into it, because it's not the other persons fluff.

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Until a Hive Ship gets Corrupted, and then it's all over.

Singular hive ships can be corrupted. Entire hive fleets? No.

The Hive Mind is definitively stronger than Chaos, as is evidenced by the Shadow in the Warp blocking out their influence and the Tyranids repeatedly curbstomping it's followers virtually every time they have a stand up fight.

 StarTrotter wrote:
One day... one day Nids and chaos will combine and brofist with Necrons. Then... then the universe will be the feasting grounds for the TyraKhorSlaNurgleentch Metal bots and the campaign shall hunt through the multiverse.

Needs more Orks.

Oh dear! What wrongs I have done! Riding on their kustombuilt Orks (bffs) with extra spikiness (de)

 -Loki- wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Theoretically a self-mutating virus could wipe out the Tyranid race, one that mutates faster than the hivemind can adapt. If that comes from anywhere it's most likely to be Nurgle.

Theoretically Tyranids could make a spore that reduces biological entities to biomass sludge, never needing to touch the ground to kill a population.

They haven't done it in the fluff.

Whereas the Imperium has done just that, many times in the fluff.

And it hasn't worked, in the fluff. They tend to kill a few hive ships and then never work again ever against any fleet because the Tyranids have adapted.

wait, what? Tyranids are immune to life-eater?

I call shenanigans.