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Quick poll...wanted some insight.

Say you're going to a FLGS to which you've never been. What kind of army do you bring?

Is it impolite to bring your brutal optimized list?

again, whennits comes to matters of civility, how you you want someone to treat you if they were new? Don't go in there with a sledgehammer list designed to kill and impress. Go in with middle-of-the-road expectations and a list to match. You won't be listed as a chump, but you also won't be known as a pretentious TFG WAAC ass, which is more important.

No, it's not impolite - but maybe you should warn any potential players that you're nasty business looking to win? After all, these stores see anything from you to Timmy (10) who just glued together his Battleforce and made a list from what was in his box and the extra HQ he just bought to make it legal.

I would take option 1 but wouldn't drop it on people I would let them know that I am bringing nothing but the best.

Neither of those options fits.

When playing in a new setting, I take exactly the same sort of list I normally prefer to play... which is whatever I feel like throwing together coupled with what I happen to have painted. I'll make that list as effective as I can. but have no interest in building lists purely on the basis of what is most effective.

Not because I want to 'play with kid gloves'... but simply because I'm not overly interested in playing a cookie-cutter optimised list.

Spetulhu wrote:
No, it's not impolite - but maybe you should warn any potential players that you're nasty business looking to win? After all, these stores see anything from you to Timmy (10) who just glued together his Battleforce and made a list from what was in his box and the extra HQ he just bought to make it legal.

And this is usually when the guy you asked to play pulls out his GT-winning army and pastes you to the wall. Its kind of like walking into a pool hall claiming to be the best game anyone will see. The quiet guy in the corner will be the one walking out with your money.

So again, don't be a jackass when you go to a new place. Don't under or oversell your capabilities. Don't show off. Try and make nice with the locals. In otherwords, just be a nice person. Your reputation will be earned. Why is this such a difficult concept?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
No, it's not impolite - but maybe you should warn any potential players that you're nasty business looking to win? After all, these stores see anything from you to Timmy (10) who just glued together his Battleforce and made a list from what was in his box and the extra HQ he just bought to make it legal.

And this is usually when the guy you asked to play pulls out his GT-winning army and pastes you to the wall. Its kind of like walking into a pool hall claiming to be the best game anyone will see. The quiet guy in the corner will be the one walking out with your money.

So again, don't be a jackass when you go to a new place. Don't under or oversell your capabilities. Don't show off. Try and make nice with the locals. In otherwords, just be a nice person. Your reputation will be earned. Why is this such a difficult concept?

You can make it known that you're looking for hard games without coming off as an ass. Saying "I'm the best!" is socially inept. Saying, "I brought a competitive list...I'm looking for a challenging game" is how normal people would do it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
Neither of those options fits.

When playing in a new setting, I take exactly the same sort of list I normally prefer to play... which is whatever I feel like throwing together coupled with what I happen to have painted. I'll make that list as effective as I can. but have no interest in building lists purely on the basis of what is most effective.

Not because I want to 'play with kid gloves'... but simply because I'm not overly interested in playing a cookie-cutter optimised list.

Fair enough - I wouldn't say that this army is a netlist by any means (i.e., Sabre platoons and Earthshaker batteries), but hybrid IG with Manticores and Vendettas is sometimes a shock the first time that people experience it. I wouldn't say that it's "brutal", as in it doesn't incorporate any super cheesy combinations of allies or anything, but it's a lot of shooting and many armies have a tough time with it.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
No, it's not impolite - but maybe you should warn any potential players that you're nasty business?

Don't under or oversell your capabilities. Don't show off. Try and make nice with the locals. In otherwords, just be a nice person. Your reputation will be earned. Why is this such a difficult concept?

Hey, the OP had the words "BRUTAL OPTIMIZED LIST" in his post. That's not making nice, it's killing kittens. I couldn't even pick a side in the poll because it was totally "be an arsehat" or "be a walkover".

Spetulhu wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
No, it's not impolite - but maybe you should warn any potential players that you're nasty business?

Don't under or oversell your capabilities. Don't show off. Try and make nice with the locals. In otherwords, just be a nice person. Your reputation will be earned. Why is this such a difficult concept?

Hey, the OP had the words "BRUTAL OPTIMIZED LIST" in his post. That's not making nice, it's killing kittens. I couldn't even pick a side in the poll because it was totally "be an arsehat" or "be a walkover".

What planet are you from, where making a good army makes you an asshat?

When people don't know you, a real good way to look like a jerk is to go on with a sledgehammer list and start playing like its a GT.

What reputation do you want to build? And do you ever want to hang out with any of these people after the store closes?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
When people don't know you, a real good way to look like a jerk is to go on with a sledgehammer list and start playing like its a GT.

What reputation do you want to build? And do you ever want to hang out with any of these people after the store closes?

So, for someone who is used to a strong meta, you're suggesting that they build a list specifically designed to be inferior?

Really? You have so little grasp of basic civility that you can't understand a simple concept as not trying a TFG to a whole new group of people? Probably should have figured this from the fact that you needed a consensus on how to act to a new envirnment with a poll on the internet...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Really? You have so little grasp of basic civility that you can't understand a simple concept as not trying a TFG to a whole new group of people?

Civility is not acting like a douchebag. Do you really believe that it is impossible to play well without being a douchebag?

Rules-lawyering, refusing to allow your opponent to redo mistakes, cheating, obnoxious behavior while winning and sore losing all make someone TFG. You're painting with a very broad brush here. Drop the ad hominem attacks.

Bringing a "brtual optimized" list can be seen as a douchebag move, yes. You have no idea of the skill levels present. And it would be funny to have your "brtual" list tabled by underestimating the locals.

Build a middle-of-the-road list. Not a sledgehammer, but not a limp piece of wet paper. Try and be a good guy, not a jackass that no one wants to play.

Look at it this way - it's for one day while you guage your opponents armies.

I'm sure your ego can take using an 'inferior' list for one day if you're that concerned about etiquette.

Bringing a middle of the road, good but not optimised list does not speak badly of you as an opponent. If they run completely uncompetitive lists, you'll win, but not too resoundly, and know what to bring next time. If they run optimised competitive lists, your list should be good enough that you can pull off a win or draw, and next time you know to bring the pain.

Well, look at it this way - you haven't hit my FLGS and I already put you on ignore. Have a good game in Outer Mongolia when no one else will touch you.

I don't really ever play with an optimized list, but I'd handle the situation the same either way. I'd take in whatever list I like to use and ask people if they'd be willing to play against it. I don't hide the list from them til the game starts, so they should know what they are getting into (that being watching me remove a lot of models, most likely).

I would bring a strong TAC list. You won't be taking an offensive list and you are less likely to get slapped around, more fun for all parties involved in my opinion.

 -Loki- wrote:
Look at it this way - it's for one day while you guage your opponents armies.

I'm sure your ego can take using an 'inferior' list for one day if you're that concerned about etiquette.

Bringing a middle of the road, good but not optimised list does not speak badly of you as an opponent. If they run completely uncompetitive lists, you'll win, but not too resoundly, and know what to bring next time. If they run optimised competitive lists, your list should be good enough that you can pull off a win or draw, and next time you know to bring the pain.

I'm honestly surprised that people have a bigger problem with running a strong list in a new environment than they do with list tailoring: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529865.page.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that people have a bigger problem with running a strong list in a new environment than they do with list tailoring: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529865.page.

What are you basing that conclusion on...?

 insaniak wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that people have a bigger problem with running a strong list in a new environment than they do with list tailoring: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529865.page.

What are you basing that conclusion on...?

The number of times I've been called a douchebag in this thread, for one.

By numbers alone consensus generally goes against list tailoring and for optimized lists, based on the poll results, but reactions weren't nearly as strong in that thread.

I think the answer is pretty simple. Bring a few lists, and maybe watch a game or two. Use that as a barometer in regard to what you should field. Is everyone uber competitive? Then hit em with the best that you have. Is everyone playing for a narrative/fluff based? Then play with something that aligns to what they like to see. I understand that most people play to win, but no one likes to be blown out of the water. Its those close battles that help build camaraderie, and maybe earn you some new buds.

Bring a decent TAC list you'd normally play at an event. Then again, I care FAR more about the way you carry and present yourself as a person and a gamer, not the caliber of the list you bring.

I'd agree that bringing a super optimized, bone crushing list errs on the TFG side, but if you are a reasonable, fun, entertaining, polite and socially normal person, I wouldn't care what list you bring.

Basically, care more about who you are, not what you bring. Shower and deodorize and all that.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
I'm honestly surprised that people have a bigger problem with running a strong list in a new environment than they do with list tailoring: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529865.page.

What are you basing that conclusion on...?

The number of times I've been called a douchebag in this thread, for one.

By numbers alone consensus generally goes against list tailoring and for optimized lists, based on the poll results, but reactions weren't nearly as strong in that thread.

Why did you reply to me originally then?

I never called you a douchebag. I merely pointed out you're having trouble with the concept of not 'bringing the pain' for one day while you guaged the competitiveness of a new gaming group. That's not calling you a douchebag, just pointing out it's not a long time you'll be playing like that.

Also, another point I'd like to raise - instead of making this thread, and starting a bit of an argument of gaming etiquette, why didn't you just ask them? Or at least the FLGS owner? The owner is generally the guy most involved in setting up leagues and tournaments and with the community as a whole. Ask him how competitive the group is.

Can't answer the poll. both options are too extreme imo. I'd just bring a decent all comers lsit. Nothing min maxed & nothing toned down.

Ok. So I recently started gaming at a new gaming store as I moved back from school and a new one was open. Maybe I can help.

So instead of going in with my tried and true Imperial Guard tourney list, I brought my newly built and painted chaos space marine list. It's not brutal by any stretch of the imagination (it's mostly berzerkers and raptors because they look cool). But I knew that I would have fun using the army as I always do.

When I entered the store, my sole focus of the day was to get to know the people there and make connections. The game itself was mostly irrelevant to me, I simply used it as a medium to begin conversation and loosen people up to the idea of a new player, playing at a level and mindset to make the other person laugh and know I was here to have fun (as you should be).

You should be more focused on talking to the people there then making sure you have the right list. I'd rather be painted as the "fun guy who isn't the greatest" than simply blend in with everyone else.

The last time I traveled, it was to a store that was much larger and more prestigious than my local one. I thought that the size of the community would mean a more professional level of game play, with a greater focus on competitiveness. The opposite actually turned out to be true. I tended to crush my opponents rather handily, even when I did, in later games, try to run 'slow pitch' lists.

I think a much greater concern is the degree of cliquishness you see in gaming communities. It's not uncommon to find places where people are all too willing to assume the worst about you (like that wanting a competitive game makes you a douche, or that putting a bit of flair in your poll language somehow puts you on par with killing kittens) and close ranks to hang out with their friends, rather than associate with the new guy. I've seen this happen all over. Some places this is more common than others.

Personally, I tailor the intensity of my list to match my perception of the community, since I usually only travel to places where I already know a few players. (My opening story was unusual.) If they are more competitive, I run a harsher list, and if they are more laid back, I run a more beer and pretzels list.

I too, am really surprised at the venomous replies in this thread. Tell you what, if you ever show up at Castle Perilous in Carbondale IL, I will happily give you a game. I play Salamanders, so you can't miss me. (Bring as brutal a list as you think I can handle!)

Okay, TC, hold your damn horses and chill out. Since you are so concerned about the perception of the FLGS gamers, I will try to address the issue of perception.

Firstly, before you go making comparisons between threads, go take a research class that includes stats and polling. Dead serious. Optimized, which is clarified as "brutal" in your post, or "kids gloves"(which you then seem to indicate is taking a bad list and losing, while others keep saying bring a mid ground or fun list) are polar options with no validity or middle ground whatsoever. The options, combined with your posts, effectively say "win at all costs" for one option, or "lose purposefully" for the other option. Those are two extreme and poor options in the first place, and if you talk like that in a store around others they're going to look at you funny, as you're going to be the guy who over-exaggerates everything.

To continue, this is not an insult, simply a reality that you need pointed out to you based on you not detecting WHY people have reacted how they have: You need to monitor how you communicate. You are getting the reaction you are based on how you have presented yourself in this thread, which you have direct control over. Please realize that going forward, and you will get helpful input in the future.

Now, to be honest and hopefully help you see why this is important, I say the following. I suspect my first impression is incorrect because I can logic through and realize you act vastly different online than in person, but if I just met you at a gaming store, I am just going to avoid you based on what I've seen. Please ask yourself if the following impression is true. If not, you again need to be more aware of what you communicate, and this is going to be CRUCIAL when you go to that new store. From your initial and following posts my first impression of you, and if you talk like that in real life most people's first impression of you, is this: You are overconfident. You are also incredibly stubborn and refuse to listen(evidence in this thread is people repeatedly suggesting a middle of the road list, and you saying it's trying to be inferior, which is NOT what they are saying). If you lose, you may blame it on an inferior list, which you may claim you purposefully built to play nice which you seem to consider playing to lose. Otherwise, you're going to be TFG who just wants to win and is probably going to rules lawyer based on your communication thus far, so as a gamer I want nothing to do with you, I don't think it will be enjoyable to play you.

THAT is what you are dealing with, the perception you have given users of yourself, not the concepts in the threads. Your comparisons between threads are irrelevant and make you appear to have a superiority complex(I will also come off with one in your eyes from this post). I beseech you, if you are going to post, please monitor your communication and stop the gut reactions to an inflammatory question that you had control over and the chance to make non-inflammatory. And if you truly are worried about how people are going to perceive you in real life, you REALLY need to make sure you are monitoring what and how you communicate.

Personally, when I'm showing up at a new gaming group I'll take a few lists with me and have a chat with some of the regulars to see how the group is.

In my experience, it doesn't matter how weak or strong of a list you make someone, somewhere will call you a beardy cheese player. So just take whatever list you want that is both:

a) So ingrained in your memory that you never have to look a rule up allowing you to spend more time bantering than flicking through books.

and

b) A well painted and presented army, because first impressions matter.