Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

I'm trying to prepare TAC for closing League (1 game per week; 4 games). Although idea is TAC I will face Blood Angels (Mefiston), DA (either Ravenwing or Deathwing); Necrons; Dark Eldar (Venom spam); Tau & CSM (obvious Turkey's); (IG and Tyranids less possible). I will most probably meet WAACy players....

the idea behind the list:
- maximize shooting (so rather shooty heavy slots instead of tanks)
- minimize HQ (I believe our units are strong enough )
- mobility (fast, deepstrike, outflank)
- reserves control
- hide & make angry & denial
- start second
- don't use Solitaire
- don't use support of other race

The list
HQ
Autarch (EJB; Fusion Gun; Laser Lance) 105
Warlock (EJB + Spear) 55

Troops
2x5 Rangers - 120
1x3 EJB with SC - 61
Guardians with BL - 110

Fast
1x6 Swooping Hawks - 96
1x8 Warp Spiders with Exarch w Power Blades - 182
Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

Heavy
3 WW with SL & Starcannon - 210
WL with 2 BL - 160

That leaves me 321 points to distribute

My idea is to add ADL with Dark Reapers as strong as possible maybe with Spiritseer for conceal...

Autarch & Warlock goes to EJB, former to hide, latter to improve survivability - they start in reserves and Autarch manage reserves (slow them down if Quad Gun on board or enemy flyers not yet here)
Warp Spiders and Hawks deepstrike (or start on board and skyleap to deepstrike turn 2); WW outflank (to have full volley turn 2)
rangers hide
Dark Reapers behind ADL with WL

My thoughts how list deals with:
1. hold objectives - check
2. Hordes - Flamers on WL, WW, Warp Spiders, hawks provide lot of dakka - check
3. MSU - same as above + short range Guardians and EJB - check
4. MC - lots of BL on WL, Crimson Hunter + Rangers, etc - check
5. Flyers - Crimson Hunter; WW, Warp Spiders - check
6. Deathstars - not sure..
7. AV 13+ ; I have 5 BL + hayware grenades on Hawks, melta on Autarch - check?
8. AV 12- ; almost all units can deal with it
9. Sv 2+ - lots of Lances, Bladestorm and Monofilament and 3 twin linked Starcannons- check?
10 sv 3+ - Dark Reapers

that leaves Close Combat but I'm not sure I need it (important units will hide, run away etc); I have WL for counter charge (I mean to fit him behind ADL in the middle of the deployment zone with Dark Reapers)

What do you think? How would you spend remaining points? what would you change? What are the weaknesses? Personally I see issue with armies with lot of interceptors....

I would appreciate constructive feedback, thx in advance

For starters, your jetbike squad is quite small for an autarch protection unit. This unit lacks the killing or staying power it could have with more bikes. Add three more bikes with a shuircannon. Cheap and boosts your killing/survival power, without making the unit have too large of a footprint.

Your autarch has a fusion gun and laser lance, but your unit is not kitted out for CC. If you want combat, go lance, if you want more shooting take the fusion gun. Both are decent against Av10/11, but the lance adds melee that your squad seems to want to avoid. If you drop the lance, a scorpion chainsword is very cheap for the S boost and extra attack from having 2 CCw's.

Although you are against another HQ, a farseer on a bike with a spear would go well in your jetbike unit and provide army wide buffing and other forms of support.

The foot guardians would benefit from a warlock, but it is by no means required you take one.

The hawks would benefit from an exarch with a sunrifle. The AP3 and blindind add a lot more utility to the squad.

The warp spider exarch should never take powerblades, and you could honestly just run a normal spider over the exarch. If you want an exarch, consider fast shot, or a spinnerette rifle and fast shot, but never powerblades.

Another heavy support choice is a good call. A lot of your army is starting in reserve, so be careful not to get tabled turn 1 and make sure you are 50% on the board to start. A second lord or more war walkers are great choices. Reapers are meh, although an ADL with a quad gun is not terrible..

thanks for the sound advice,

I do agree regarding more jetbikes, and rekitting Autarch.

I weaver regarding Farseer though...

I kind of disagree regarding powerblades, why never powerblades? I play warp spiders quite often and sometimes they lack punch during charge. the only time I lost them was where they couldnt finish unit in HtH in assault after shooting...

I want to take Hawks due to grenade pack and harrasment, not sure I need exarch with sunrifle to be honest...

nonetheless thx for the advice!

TBH I like what you are trying to accomplish...i think you might not have enough cohesive elements though. Here is the list i run:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/533500.page
it works...very very well...trim off a few points and try it out. you will have fun if the goals you set out are already how you think about the game.

I see your point but my vision is not to use tanks

I also go for WW and Dark Reapers to have more Shots Per Turn (aka DPS )

I was thinking about Warp Spiders Autarch but I'm afraid it will get killed faster and easier then when hiding in EJB, not sure though.... I will read your bat rep soon as well as revise my list




Automatically Appended Next Post:
list update

HQ
Autarch (EJB; Fusion Gun) 95
Spiritseer 70
Warlock (EJB + Spear) 55

Troops
2x5 Rangers - 120
1x6 EJB with 2x SC - 122
Guardians with BL - 110

Fast
1x6 Swooping Hawks - 96
1x9 Warp Spiders - 171
Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

Heavy
3 WW with SL & Starcannon - 210
WL with 2 BL - 160
1x5 Dark Reapers with Exarch - 160

ADL - 50

Spiritseer joins Dark Reapers behind ADL for conceal - they are to survive and be shot at (so go to ground is an option)

options are:
- drop ADL & Spiritseer for Farseer
- drop Spiritseer and some Reapers incl exarch for Farseer
- drop 1 unit of Rangers for points (but that would mean only 3 troops choices)
- drop spiritseer and ADL & Dark Reapers alltoghether for sth else
- other....

I would prefer to keep rest of the list intact

what are your thoughts and suggestions?

The reason why not to have powerblades on the Warp Spiders is that they have become MUCH more mobile and should very rarely get caught into an assault. And even if they do they come with HnR now. Their strength is in Str6/7 fire on light armor, MCs and even basic infantry in a pinch(due to AP1 on a 6).

well, they were stopped by some Marine scouts behind ADL .... and then got charged by greyknight....

but I see your point, thx!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I already dropped exarch with powerblades by the way

other suggestions?

well, i still have some time before final list declaration so I will bump it

Fikol wrote:
I see your point but my vision is not to use tanks

I also go for WW and Dark Reapers to have more Shots Per Turn (aka DPS )

I was thinking about Warp Spiders Autarch but I'm afraid it will get killed faster and easier then when hiding in EJB, not sure though.... I will read your bat rep soon as well as revise my list




Automatically Appended Next Post:
list update

HQ
Autarch (EJB; Fusion Gun) 95
Spiritseer 70
Warlock (EJB + Spear) 55

Troops
2x5 Rangers - 120
1x6 EJB with 2x SC - 122
Guardians with BL - 110

Fast
1x6 Swooping Hawks - 96
1x9 Warp Spiders - 171
Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

Heavy
3 WW with SL & Starcannon - 210
WL with 2 BL - 160
1x5 Dark Reapers with Exarch - 160

ADL - 50

Spiritseer joins Dark Reapers behind ADL for conceal - they are to survive and be shot at (so go to ground is an option)

options are:
- drop ADL & Spiritseer for Farseer
- drop Spiritseer and some Reapers incl exarch for Farseer
- drop 1 unit of Rangers for points (but that would mean only 3 troops choices)
- drop spiritseer and ADL & Dark Reapers alltoghether for sth else
- other....

I would prefer to keep rest of the list intact

what are your thoughts and suggestions?

ok... Why don't the dark reapes have starshot? Please give them starshot missiles. It's the only way..... And I would take solotarch instead of regular.

What are your reasons for starshot and solotarch?

regarding starshot I find them too expensive, besides other units provide me enough S8 shots, dont you think?

as for Solotarch there are too many template cover ignoring weapons and I dont want to risk my warlord

anyway, I kindly ask for more suggestions how to finalize the list and what are it's weaknessess

Fikol wrote:
What are your reasons for starshot and solotarch?

regarding starshot I find them too expensive, besides other units provide me enough S8 shots, dont you think?

as for Solotarch there are too many template cover ignoring weapons and I dont want to risk my warlord

anyway, I kindly ask for more suggestions how to finalize the list and what are it's weaknessess

Dark reapers are just one of my favorites, with starshot missiles they can take vehicles pretty easily. More easier than other anti tanks. But what I have started to do is take Icurus las cannon, with 3 man dark reapers, exarch with fast shot. 2 las cannon shots. Give the rest starshot, easy anti tank/ anti flier. But if you don't face many fliers, your good.

Solotarch because not many flames will get close to you when your on a jetbike. If you do, it will have to one or two low s flamers. Against anything else, he'll be fine. So either hell have to shoot at it with 3/4 of his army, or let it wreck all it wants.
Just some advise.

And why spirit sear. Sorry if you alread said, just didnt catch it.

thx for explanation

spiritseer is there for conceal. since he is IC he can join Dark Reapers so taht they would have either 3+ cover without having to go to ground. If I run 5 of them they will be shot at a lot.

furthermore Spiritseer can get some other nice power.

I may however go to the option you recommend i.e. Icarus. I will think on it further.

Fikol wrote:
thx for explanation

spiritseer is there for conceal. since he is IC he can join Dark Reapers so taht they would have either 3+ cover without having to go to ground. If I run 5 of them they will be shot at a lot.

furthermore Spiritseer can get some other nice power.

I may however go to the option you recommend i.e. Icarus. I will think on it further.

They would get 2+ cover, conceal,is +2 to,cover.
That makes since. If you get protect/jinx to...
Once ten terminators deepetriked right next to them and my avatar.
Jinxed them, then dark reapers + avatar wiped the squad. Didn't even get in combat

exactly! that's the idea for the Spiritseer

however other think came to my mind. maybe I could switch Autarch on Jetbike (which is not going to do much) to the Warps Spider Autarch ... to play more aggressively. How would you kit him to improve his survivability and Warp Spiders boost?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking of alternative Autarch with Warp Jump Generator, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun and Power Weapon.

What do you think?

slight bump... do you have other ideas for Warp Spider Autarch?

I find a Warp Spider Autarch a little difficult to use. Him joining the Spiders doesn't add much to the unit that doesn't make them expensive and no longer specialized, and him going solo is far too fragile.

I find Autarchs not on Jetbikes tricky in general in this edition. They rarely add useful ability to anything they join where a Spiritseer would add so much more.

agreed, but my list needs autarch for reserves control in order to work.

So think I will go for spiritseer with Reapers and autarch on bike... will post revised list later for you guys to feedback

Jetbike Autarch is brilliant in this edition but needs a Mantle. Warp Spider Autarch is terrible. He doesn't dovetail well with them at all.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Jetbike Autarch is brilliant in this edition but needs a Mantle. Warp Spider Autarch is terrible. He doesn't dovetail well with them at all.

He can attach to the EJB squad and add some firepower that does synergize well. Sure, the Laughting Jetarch is fun and all, but adding him to the EJB squad is still very viable. That is if he is using the Spiritseer now, unless I missed something. :-P


Edit: For Spiritseer inclusion to show how I got to my conclusion.

the league is opening in a week time. I've noticed that 3 out of 4 scenarios start with night fight. there is no roll for it. so I revised the list to give Dark Reapers Night Vision. I had to drop 1 unit of rangers

since I lost 1 unit scoring I decided to split GJB into 2 units

remaining points I put into additional Warp Spider and Swooping Hawk exarch with Spinneret Rifle

HQ
Autarch (EJB; Fusion Gun) 95
Spiritseer 70
Warlock (EJB + Spear) 55

Troops
1x5 Rangers - 60
2x3 EJB with 2x SC - 122
Guardians with BL - 110

Fast
1x6 Swooping Hawks; Exarch with Spinneret Rifle - 121
1x9 Warp Spiders - 171
Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

Heavy
3 WW with SL & Starcannon - 210
WL with 2 BL - 160
1x5 Dark Reapers with Exarch; Fast Shot , Night Vision - 175

ADL - 50

Spiritseer joins Dark Reapers behind ADL for conceal

Any thoughts? Weaknesses of that list?

Fikol wrote:
the league is opening in a week time. I've noticed that 3 out of 4 scenarios start with night fight. there is no roll for it. so I revised the list to give Dark Reapers Night Vision. I had to drop 1 unit of rangers

since I lost 1 unit scoring I decided to split GJB into 2 units

remaining points I put into additional Warp Spider and Swooping Hawk exarch with Spinneret Rifle

HQ
Autarch (EJB; Fusion Gun) 95
Spiritseer 70
Warlock (EJB + Spear) 55

Troops
1x5 Rangers - 60
2x3 EJB with 2x SC - 122
Guardians with BL - 110

Fast
1x6 Swooping Hawks; Exarch with Spinneret Rifle - 121
1x9 Warp Spiders - 171
Crimson Hunter Exarch - 180

Heavy
3 WW with SL & Starcannon - 210
WL with 2 BL - 160
1x5 Dark Reapers with Exarch; Fast Shot , Night Vision - 175

ADL - 50

Spiritseer joins Dark Reapers behind ADL for conceal

Any thoughts? Weaknesses of that list?

If you magnetised your War Walkers (I'm not sure if this is allowed in a fixed tournament), but vs. MEQs you might like to take double starcannons, they have a slightly higher chance of killing more marines. Double scatter lasers vs orks, double bright lances vs. very very mech armies.

Hmph at first thought the Dark Reapers wouldn't need a great cover save like rangers or the like, since they have nice armour saves. Idk

Lol I think you mean sunrifle bro! But I don't think sunrifles are good against anything above IG...6 Swooping hawks is 25 points less and does practically the same thing. Though with an exarch you can get a extra inch shaved off your grenade pack throws.

I don't know if you've thought about this but Wave Serpents? You wanted shooty and mobility, that's about the exact definition of it You can put the Guardians inside the Wave Serpent.

You could think about Support Weapon Batteries, for just 90 points you're getting an absolute monstrous amount of firepower, and I think it would work well within the defense line. Problem is heavy slots. I think I would drop the wraithlord....

Warp Spiders are best in squads of 7-8. Because they retain their great firepower and stay agile. If you only take 5 or 6 they become close to obsolete. But if you take over 8, you're risking making them too cumbersome, too overkill and also prone to some blast/barrage weapons.

I would put the rangers back in....Just find 60 points anywhere and you can keep the jetbikes in one unit.

Hope I helped!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way you were using semi-colons incorrectly in your first post. Only use them as a "super-comma" when the two sentences you are merging together have a comma in it.

Thanks for reply

Regarding Dark Reapers they seem always to get under heavy fire. that's why I want them get 2+ cover and not to have to go to ground. I also want them in the middle of the board so that Spiritseer that will join them would have nice range for the powers

yes sunrifle , if I drop him and the gun I will save 25 points

as for Wave Serpents I want to maximize "Shots per turn" so as for now that means no tanks. I shall see how it works and most probably include one or 2 in the future, but is so generic... everybody takes WS

I need to order Support Batteries, they fit into the idea of the list perfectly and would replace Wraithlord and save some points. But it's mail order only here so I will have to wait.

I may reduce 2 Warp Spiders, together with 25 points saved on Swooping Hawk exarch I may fit additional Ranger unit...

I have seen reapers do great stuff when parked on the quad gun and behind the line. have one man the gun and they can take on flyers "no jink" and if you could get a full 6 walkers that can put down a ton of shots with any gun option. just my 2 cents. even just the stock walker with cannons have that "kinda rend" on 6 so make one squad a cheep troop hunter.

Thx for your feedback.

I prefer to have Wraithlord though instead of second WW unit. That's due to points and more survivablilty.

and frankly speaking I have only 4 WW and my WL is my best painted model so far