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2 players in my group use Mephiston and Abaddon (not together...different players with different armies). When these units hit the battlefield against me, I cannot seem to stop em. I use SMs and am building a GK/SW army and a DW army. Is it possible to use units in these armies to counter these 2? Is there a specific unit or tactic that is a good counter to em? Or is it just as simple as shooting tons of bolter rounds at em and make em fail the saving throws? Any help would be appreciated.

Situational but -
Arjac Rockfist throw hammer at Mephistons face. Rune Priest then uses JOTWW.
Meph falls down a hole.

Mephiston doesn't have eternal warrior, so he can be instant deathed. He's also ap3 - so TH/SS termies will take him down (if you can catch him) Rune Priests are also one of the few units left with board denying psychic shenanigans, so you should be able to slow him down too.
Meph also isn't an independant character, so he can always be shot.

However, don't ever let him near your lines. I've seen him wipe out an entire heavy support section at 4k. Hes also easy to hide so it can be tricky to get good shooting on him.

For Abby - big guns that take out terminators will take him down eventually. Thats about it.

Is Draigo worth fielding against Mephiston at all? And how can I ID him? I thought with his T6 I wouldn't be able to do that? And I'm guessing maybe dedicating lascannon devs to taking out Abaddon is the only thing I have.

He's got T6, not eternal warrior. So for example, a force weapon (if it hurt) would be able to take Mephiston out. Anything with the instant death rule would work. Mind you, it'd need to be wielded by someone who could weather a load of strength 10 ap3 attacks first.

I don't know draigo's stats/rules, but if he's an eternal warrior in terminator armour he could survive. However Meph also has a 2+ IIRC, so Draigo would need to be ap2 to hurt him. IIRC again - Draigo is AP3?

Lysander could probably handle Mephy, right? He's got EW, S10, and a 2+/3++. Granted, I realize catching Mephiston is the problem there, but if you can get them in combat together, Lysander should mop the floor with him.

Marneus Calgar would hurt him. Meph no like 2+ save eternal warrior and powerfists.

PredaKhaine wrote:
He's got T6, not eternal warrior. So for example, a force weapon (if it hurt) would be able to take Mephiston out. Anything with the instant death rule would work. Mind you, it'd need to be wielded by someone who could weather a load of strength 10 ap3 attacks first.

I don't know draigo's stats/rules, but if he's an eternal warrior in terminator armour he could survive. However Meph also has a 2+ IIRC, so Draigo would need to be ap2 to hurt him. IIRC again - Draigo is AP3?

I totally forgot about the force weapon rule. Yes he's EW and a termie so he could manage to survive a bit better i guess. He's str10 ap3 against Phisty as well. I'm guessing he'd be pretty good as he only needs to wound Phisty once and Phisty needs to put 4 wounds on Draigo.

Shooting Mephiston with ap3 or better weapons... Mephiston lacks an invulnerable save (if I remember correctly). I managed to deal with him through a series of Plasma and Melta shots (and some bolter rounds to boot!

As for Abaddon, like everyone has said, you treat him like the Terminator model he is. Hit him with Ap2 weapons, and force him to use that Invulnerable save.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Lysander could probably handle Mephy, right? He's got EW, S10, and a 2+/3++. Granted, I realize catching Mephiston is the problem there, but if you can get them in combat together, Lysander should mop the floor with him.

Yeah forgot about old Lysander. I have a good model to proxy for him already too. Thanks!!!


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 Alfndrate wrote:
Shooting Mephiston with ap3 or better weapons... Mephiston lacks an invulnerable save (if I remember correctly). I managed to deal with him through a series of Plasma and Melta shots (and some bolter rounds to boot!

As for Abaddon, like everyone has said, you treat him like the Terminator model he is. Hit him with Ap2 weapons, and force him to use that Invulnerable save.

Good point. I have a ton of plasma and melta weapons as well.

Mephiston is now pretty bad for his pricetag. Abbadon is miles better. They are both countered by AP 1/2 shooting.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
2 players in my group use Mephiston and Abaddon (not together...different players with different armies). When these units hit the battlefield against me, I cannot seem to stop em. I use SMs and am building a GK/SW army and a DW army. Is it possible to use units in these armies to counter these 2? Is there a specific unit or tactic that is a good counter to em? Or is it just as simple as shooting tons of bolter rounds at em and make em fail the saving throws? Any help would be appreciated.

mephy is easy. He is 250 points, not an IC, and lacks AP2 and an invuln save. Hit him with plasma shots. Melta, lascannons whatever. He dies easily. Catching him can be tough, but termiantors can create bubbles where he wont go.

abby is an IC, so he can hide in a unit. Whatever unit he hides in is what you need to shoot and counter. If he is in terminators, you counter with plasma. If he is in cultists just use bolters(but a ton of them) Abby without a unit isnt that scary.

Sorry in advance for not knowing, but is Abaddon an EW? I don't know his stat line.

SW?

missile spam and be done with it for Mephiston

Wabbadon though: as others have said probably best to shoot him out.

Edit: wabbadon is EW with 4 wounds inside terminator armor

 Desubot wrote:
SW?

missile spam and be done with it for Mephiston

Wabbadon though: as others have said probably best to shoot him out.

Edit: wabbadon is EW with 4 wounds inside terminator armor

Thanks for the info. Most appreciated.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
SW?

missile spam and be done with it for Mephiston

Wabbadon though: as others have said probably best to shoot him out.

Edit: wabbadon is EW with 4 wounds inside terminator armor

Thanks for the info. Most appreciated.

And T5 and a 4++ save.

Mephiston is actually much easier to handle. First, hes not an independent character, so he cannot hide in a unit and enjoy the 'Look out Sir' rule. Instead you can start targeting him at the start of the game. Secondly, hes only got a AP3 weapon. Challange him with an IC with terminator/artificer armor and a thunder hammer and watch Mephiston start to have a very bad day.

Abbadon is ... well .... hes nasty. Pretty much anything he touches will evaporate. He's an IC so he can hide in a squad.
The good news is that he has to accept challenges, so you can keep him locked in challenges for a few turns. The bad news is he will kill anything you can put in a challenge with him.

There is only one downside to Abbadon from a CSM perspective. That's the oppertunity cost of bringing him. Abbadon is amazing, but bringing him makes it much harder to bring PMs as troops. This means they are taking normal CSM, cultists, or chosen. None of these are as good.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
Sorry in advance for not knowing, but is Abaddon an EW? I don't know his stat line.

just stop trying to kill him in combat. You can outwiegh him with a bunch of TH/SS attacks or use a super beast like the swarmlord but basically he is going to crush most any IC you throw at him. You feed abby champions to keep him in combat longer while killing his squad, then hope to shoot him when he is alone. Shooting at him when he has 35 ablative wounds is a bad idea, as he might just jump to another unit.

Meph has artificer armor so missiles bounce off. Anyone recommending missiles or ap3 does know what they're actually talking about.

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Meph has artificer armor so missiles bounce off. Anyone recommending missiles or ap3 does know what they're actually talking about.

Indeed your right. dunno why i though it had a 3+ save.

Mephiston is actually decent against many SW lists because they insist on using AP 3 heavy weapons in many of their lists. But in a TAC environment, Mephiston is garbage.

Moral of the story: AP2 weapons, force weapons, and 2+ save units vs Meph.

Martel732 wrote:
Mephiston is actually decent against many SW lists because they insist on using AP 3 heavy weapons in many of their lists. But in a TAC environment, Mephiston is garbage.

Disagree, he was garbage....but he has had a resurgance. He's a great monster hunter. Hide him out of LOS of anything that can threaten him shooting (easy to do with his mobility and small foot print) and pick the combats where he shines (MCs without endurance or a 2+, which is many of them). If the enemy isn't playing monster mash, hide him across the board and crash gunlines. He is a scalpel now, not a hammer, but because he's so easy to hide, and fairly fast, he's an excellent tool in the hands of a skilled general. That said, most people play him like he's invincible, and then he's terrible. But when used right, he's great.

I have two losses with my Daemon builds (not saying anecdotal evidence is the best), one was to another Daemon list, and one was to an AV14 wall with Mephiston used as a screening force. It was extremely effective (and at the final table to a decent sized tournament)

So lots of plasma shots on Abaddon's unit?

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
So lots of plasma shots on Abaddon's unit?

woh ninja edit.

Edited until I know wtf is going on

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
So lots of plasma shots on Abaddon's unit?

Eternal warrior

How does EW come into play with a unit that wouldn't be doubled out by Str7 guns anyways?

The first post i saw said somthing like he can be insta death with st 10

but then it got edited

Edit: oh ffs more edits

 Desubot wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Meph has artificer armor so missiles bounce off. Anyone recommending missiles or ap3 does know what they're actually talking about.

Indeed your right. dunno why i though it had a 3+ save.

My knowledge on his armor probably comes from the fact my opponent was taking 3+ armor saves against the bolter shots I threw into him I only know that Mephiston is the littlest carnifex, good toughness, good strength, can't hide in a unit (though carni broods do exist), and doesn't have an invuln save.

 Desubot wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
So lots of plasma shots on Abaddon's unit?

Eternal warrior

How does EW come into play with a unit that wouldn't be doubled out by Str7 guns anyways?

The first post i saw said somthing like he can be insta death with st 10

but then it got edited

Edit: oh ffs more edits

Sorry guys. Brain fart. That's what happens when you try to post when you're at work.


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 Alfndrate wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Meph has artificer armor so missiles bounce off. Anyone recommending missiles or ap3 does know what they're actually talking about.

Indeed your right. dunno why i though it had a 3+ save.

My knowledge on his armor probably comes from the fact my opponent was taking 3+ armor saves against the bolter shots I threw into him I only know that Mephiston is the littlest carnifex, good toughness, good strength, can't hide in a unit (though carni broods do exist), and doesn't have an invuln save.

Haha gotta love when the enemy doesn't know his own army.

Guns

Whirlwinds. They are a cheap, easy way to dock off 1 or 2 of wounds of an hq. They are AP 2 and always wound on a 2+. It is really effective also if Mephiston decides to hide behind cover because the blast can be anti cover. They can be used as a distraction unit, dividing the oppositions heavy fire away from the more valuable stuff.