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Why is your Tyrant stuck in combat? If he's maximizing his 18" range on his devourers and kites, he shouldn't be in CC (short of getting charged by Fast Attacks).

If that's what you're worried about, why wouldn't simply put wings on him and avoid CC altogether? I never understood Armored Shells unless you planned on using them as Gun Platforms anyhow and use can do the same with wings. But their -1 Save would be made up for with their "Hard to Hit" flying rules.

I don't understand what you mean stuck in combat?

My tyrants tend to win combat...move...win combat...move

I don't often take a normal tyrant...my loadout tends to be swarmy or dakkaflyrant or cc flyrant

My problem with relying on hard to hit, is that as soon as they get any hits through, and you fail the grounded test (which can cause more wounds) that hive tyrant is going to disappear. As well with minimum movement speed while swooping, they seem to always be out of tervigon endurance range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the mobility that tyrant is capable of. I simply second the motion of "trying" the 2+ tyrant before knocking it. I have used it time and time again, and it weathers RIDICULOUS damage. and man oh man, if he gets Iron arm?

I actually disagree that most of what people are using to kill monstrous creatures are ap 2. 90% of that fire that I run into is either mass strength 7 fire, or ap3 rockets of some sort.

Ill try the flying tyrant more, and do a strict comparison of the 2. But yeah, I never take tyrants without double devourers, they are just the bees knees.

Saythings wrote:
Why is your Tyrant stuck in combat? If he's maximizing his 18" range on his devourers and kites, he shouldn't be in CC (short of getting charged by Fast Attacks).

If that's what you're worried about, why wouldn't simply put wings on him and avoid CC altogether? I never understood Armored Shells unless you planned on using them as Gun Platforms anyhow and use can do the same with wings. But their -1 Save would be made up for with their "Hard to Hit" flying rules.

...Getting "stuck in" is a colloquial British term for getting right into the thick of things.

Shellrants should be kitted out for melee, and not be saddled with crappy blast weapons.

Daft Yanks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gameandwatch wrote:
My problem with relying on hard to hit, is that as soon as they get any hits through, and you fail the grounded test (which can cause more wounds) that hive tyrant is going to disappear. As well with minimum movement speed while swooping, they seem to always be out of tervigon endurance range.

Don't get me wrong, I love the mobility that tyrant is capable of. I simply second the motion of "trying" the 2+ tyrant before knocking it. I have used it time and time again, and it weathers RIDICULOUS damage. and man oh man, if he gets Iron arm?

I actually disagree that most of what people are using to kill monstrous creatures are ap 2. 90% of that fire that I run into is either mass strength 7 fire, or ap3 rockets of some sort.

Ill try the flying tyrant more, and do a strict comparison of the 2. But yeah, I never take tyrants without double devourers, they are just the bees knees.

Devourer Flyrants are also the only semi-efficient source of AA in the entire book. Otherwise Vultures, Vendettas, Barracuddas, Doom Scythes, Night Scythes, Heldrakes, Dakkajets, Fighta Bommaz, Nightwings, Storm Ravens and Night Shroud Bombers can do whatever they like to you.

Being able to kill them also is handy in killpoints games, as otherwise those would be points you'd never get.

So mean Kain! lol.

The flyrants require a fair amount of finesse but they can be extremely reliable. Use LOS to protect them if they do get grounded. I usually always fly them over Ruins or terrain that blocks complete LoS to the majority of the enemy model. Only giving LoS to the models I'm targeting. Gliding or Swooping, FMCs get cover saves if they are in Area Terrain. It's a silly oversight but the rules are clear about models in area terrain. Being a MC and not a vehicles, he only needs his base in terrain.

It's a tough balancing act between Biomancy Psychic powers, Catalyst, Gliding/Swooping, Terrain hopping, synapse range checks, and LoS'ing AP3 or better weapons. It's not easy, but worth it for the mobility. Shellrants, look mum I learned a new phrase, are a lot more forgiving or tactical errors.

One thing I have to say about bugs...there's many more viable units in this book compared to a lot of books.

 ductvader wrote:
One thing I have to say about bugs...there's many more viable units in this book compared to a lot of books.

The Internal balance is still atrocious and I'm of the opinion that Cruddace should be eaten alive by rippers.

At least then we'd have a use for rippers.

 ductvader wrote:
At least then we'd have a use for rippers.

And Skyslashers find a way to be even worse. More expensive rippers that can't even take cover as well.

Yay?

I actually make great use of my sky slashers in my "Parasite" list

 ductvader wrote:
I actually make great use of my sky slashers in my "Parasite" list

I run into burnaboyz or d-scythe wraithguard and die horribly.

And no I can't avoid them because the moment they know they're facing my bugs they bring them out and kill everything.

Stupid AP2 flamers.

Who's kitting their list against you?

Uncool.

I haven't played against an enemy who runs flamers in months...it's pretty much IG only for me. Also been seeing a lot less blasts lately.

 ductvader wrote:
Who's kitting their list against you?

Uncool.

I haven't played against an enemy who runs flamers in months...it's pretty much IG only for me. Also been seeing a lot less blasts lately.

The general rule where I play (either at my, a friend's house, or if I have the time a gaming store) is "feel free to tailor towards a codex" and those Burnaz and Wraiths sure do tailor nicely against Green tide, Scuttling Swarm, Ravening cultist, and Marching boots lists.

I know this thread shifted a bit, but thanks for all the info. When I bought my nids, I bought my units based pretty much on the only competative builds that i could find. I have really been looking to add some flavor to the bugs but you don't find much like this past the general builds.

Here are the models I have
1 Swarmlord w guard( he is custom and I bought it only because I like him, don't really use him)
2 Flyrants mags for weapon change outs
3 Hiveguard
2x Zoans
1 Doom
2 Spores
2 tervigons
40 gants
20 gargoyles
2 trygons ( prime or regular)
2 biovores

I think there are a few places you could definitely add flavor

For assault

Raveners, Hormagaunts, Ymgarl Genestealers

For Shooting

Carnifexes, maybe Harpies, Tyrranofex, and for infantry Raveners with Spinefists are mean, not to mention devilgants

2x Dual dev fexes have been simply amazing for me.. Esp w/ Enfeeble and/or Onslaught (I tend to keep 1 Tervigon with book powers).

Awesome sauce against all the Daemon/Necrons currently flooding the scene. 48 chances to get 6's vs fliers. (brood of 2). Also wrecks infantry and provides good counter assault.

Biovores have been great for me against the heap of Xenos/infantry heavy armies.

Zoeys are perfect for that backfield synapse you need when/if your monsters start disappearing. They also allow you to be more aggressive with said monsters. Nice bit of utility with Telekinesis/Telepathy/Bio/codex. Knowing when to roll what takes practice.

Harpies could be good. If only they were 3+, or s6, or a3. :(

Doom doesn't impress me. He simply doesn't do anything vs. Good players. Hes a noob killer.. Not something I really NEED.

I think I'm going to pull the doom or hiveguard and try a group of Ymgarl Genestealers first.. I have been seeing them pop up a lot in bat reps and they seems like they are a fun unit.

They're glorious in a world of no one can assault out of reserves.

My usage of them has made me start urging MEQ players to use Vanguard.

Doom doesn't impress you?!

I suppose only noobs fail Leadership tests... ^.^

Only noobs leave doom sized holes in their deployment. Forcing a LD check on a single unit killing 2-4 models isn't really amazing.

Against a lot of other armies he doesn't do a darn thing. Flying Circus, Necrons, Mech Eldar.

He could be good against Tau if interceptor didn't exist..

With the most recent FAQ stating any unit disembarking from a spod can move 6" inches, it isn't hard to fit a single model into a gunline. You don't even necessarily need a hole, you can just sit in front of the gunline and almost guarantee 2 units getting hit with the 6" leeway. Don't forget, if you have the 2 Flyrants on the field turn one, you can always dakka a hole. Yes, they can fill it with more bodies but if you wipe the majority of a squad it's hard to do that. 24 shots of TL-S6 shots adds up fast.

I'd argue with perfect enemy deployment, you'd always manage to find some kind of weakness. If they spread out so much and you can only hit 1 squad, then Doom did his job already and now the enemy army is spread out so much, you can drop (the rest of your army) on 1-side of the table and deal with half of his army at a time.

Killing 2-4 models doesn't seem like a lot, but now that Doom has a S6-8 Large Blast Template with AP1. That can do some serious work as well.

The good thing about interceptor is it only happens once. If you want to intercept and shoot all your S8+ weapons at my Doom (that has a chance of saving with his 3+ invulnerable save) be my guest. That's less shots you get during your turn and less shots my two Flyrants, 3 Carnifexes, and 2 Zoanthropes will take.

I'm simply pointing out, noob or not, Doom will do his job. He's only 130 points. Whether, he dies during interceptor, lands and survives one turn, or does his job perfectly and wipes out half of the enemy army; Doom does what he's design to do. Terrorize, distract, and soak up shoots. Any damage he causes is a bonus.

I like the doom but he isn't as consistant as I would like. Scatter dice hate my guts... last few games he scattered so far off that I didn't even get to use him... ( since they killed him before he got close enough to do anything.

The Hiveguard have been really rolling poor for me. I hear good things from some folks so I keep plugging them in there. I myself have not one game were they have done me any good.

I'll likely drop the HG for the first test.

I added HGs to my first couple lists in 6th cause of all the buzz they got in 5th. But after a few games, I left them out permanently and added Zoans. They can be hit or miss, but when they do hit, they typically pen and explode on a 4+. So strong.

My Tyranid army was designed to make the most of the psychic rules and is currently undefeated (thats allot less impressive once I tell you I've only played three games, but I won all of them rather brutally)

3 Minimum sized genestealer squads with brood lords, awesome in general but especially against chaos who HAVE to challenge you and then get annihilated. Broodlords are so good that I have had my entire genestealer brood die on its way to the target only to have broodlord wipe an entire assault focused csm squad

3 zoanthropes, these guys are like missile launchers, only way better and unusually survivable

and then tervigons and a swarm lord, but those guys are commonly used.

My armies biggest problem currently is air, unless I get that telekinesis power that screws over vehicles (cant remember what its called) im kinda dead there.

I still miss carnifexes though (currently using them as tervigons because screw GW for making a pricy model useless), I really hope they get buffed in the next edition

Mind you, I never said Doom was useless. I'd just rather spend the 130 points on another unit which will perform with more consistency.

From what I stated above, I'd argue that Doom is very consistent. Just not in the way that people expect him to be. He may not cause wounds but he always altars the game's outcome.

But Spores arguably do that for a fraction of the cost and without giving up 2 KP

 ductvader wrote:
But Spores arguably do that for a fraction of the cost and without giving up 2 KP

Doom can kill things and wreck face with Cataclysm, Spore Mines when not fired by Biovores...can't...

That's not what I said.

I said they could alter deployment and therefore the game.

 ductvader wrote:
That's not what I said.

I said they could alter deployment and therefore the game.

Well they can, but I prefer gargs in my FA slots and Doom in a can goes well with a podding Zoan and Devilgant assault.