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Short of taking a 7-8 man squad of terminators, why would you take a Land Raider Crusader over a Redeemer? The Crusader and Redeemer both have the same assault cannon and their side sponson guns are both short range. However, the Crusader will generally cause little damage against most targets, but at the cost of maybe 4" effective range you get a lot more firepower. 6 Boltguns, twin linked or no, isn't a whole heck of a lot.
So... As far as I can see, you're giving up immensely powerful short range death for a little bit more range and a whole lot less firepower.
Why?

6 boltgusn that are rapid fire so 12 shots up close! That's why I use them!

Try to line up and use both sponsons on a Redeemer... You´ll take a Crusader next time

Aganst MEQ the redeemer is better who doesn't like str 6 ap 3, i use it to deliver my death company, but you need to get close to use it effectively and you can only have 6 terminators in it.
What kind of terminators and how many?

For me, redeemers are the best choice when it comes to landraiders. Although barring certain strategies/lists I find that landraiders are over priced and vehicles such as storm ravens do a much better job.

As ever, it depends what you're using it for. Remember that if you're moving at full speed, the Redeemer can't snapshot with the templates. Also as mentioned, it's much more useful against MEQs, but because you can't practically get both sponsons to bear on the same target, the Crusader is better against units with 5+ saves at most (so, that's facing Orks, Nids, Guard...). Not sure how the mathhammer would work on 4+.
Against TEQs, the Crusader is still better for the same reason (more wounds to force saves) but of course the vanilla Raider is better than both there.

There's also other uses for the extra carrying capacity than Termies - Crusaders are really useful for big Marine units, like Black Templars, Death Company or Blood Claws.

You don't.

The extra storage space hasn't been worth it in my mind if it neuters a 250 point vehicle to the point where it just has a couple of bolters or flamers put in the wrong place that you'll never get to fire, much less in a useful way.

Meanwhile, a regular land raider is a lascannon predator combined with a rhino that can carry terminators and gets an assault ramp. And much, MUCH better armor. A combination of pretty much everything that space marines are supposed to be about.

Well DA love it. the banner of devastation and the LRC go together like money and a bank vault. The LRC provides the squad protection, and it's bolters are now salvo!

While the redeemer is good against MEQs because of its flamers, the Crusader is awesome vs everything else. You know, all those guard allies that everyone is bringing.

At 12" away, the crusader gets its 12 shots. The redeemer has to get within 9 just to touch one model. Truth be told it almost has to be in BTB contact with a unit to get the most out of one flamer.

I personally have never seen a Redeemer flame anything more than a single model or two. The weapon is just too easy to avoid. At least the Crusader is shooting every turn, and while it only may be six boltguns, those shots do add up over the course of the game.

Also, the 16 model capacity makes it so you can truly put whatever you want into it and not feel like you need to make cuts just to make room.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Well DA love it. the banner of devastation and the LRC go together like money and a bank vault. The LRC provides the squad protection, and it's bolters are now salvo!

I didn't think the Salvo Banner worked on Hurricane Bolters? Isn't it just normal boltguns?

You can't snap fire Templates. That's the real reason. You can only shoot 1 weapon after moving 6 inches and 0 after 12 inches. You can PotMS the flamer if you want, but most likely, you'll want to do that on the MM to pop something for your contents to assault.

Scenario:

Turn1 move 12" than Flat Out (No weapons shoot)
Turn2 move 6", unload 6", assault 2d6" (1 weapon shoots + 1 PotMS) - Most likely Assault Cannon and Melta because you'll be too far to flame
Turn3 move forward 6" (shoot 2 flamers if in range OR once against MM/Assault) or move forward 12" (shoot 1 flamer with PotMS)
Turn4 you'll just be chasing 6" and double flaming if you want to maximize your Redeemer.

If you run LRC you'll get to snapfire your Rapidfire TL weapons all game (starting Turn2). Hope that clears things up!

Some armies (like Templars) love the crusader more too. Especially because their version can be immune to lance

DA can use the banner to get 24 TL bolter shots at 24". Thats a pretty darn good value.

GK can get S5 hurricane bolters.

Imobilization renders redeemers useless, but LRC can still operate fine.

You will almost never in any game of 40k get both flamer templates on the same unit of marines. Sure you kill 5 marines in one flame, but the LRC has been shooting since 2 turns ago and probably has the same number dead.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Some armies (like Templars) love the crusader more too. Especially because their version can be immune to lance

Especially since Templars don't get to take the Redeemer in the first place...

For grey knights I think I will always go crusader over redeemer because of psybolt ammo. Suddenly 4 S7 rending shots and 6 (12) S5 bolter shots.

For other armies though, I dont think one is significantly better over the other, and comes down to personal preference.

 tuiman wrote:
For grey knights I think I will always go crusader over redeemer because of psybolt ammo. Suddenly 4 S7 rending shots and 6 (12) S5 bolter shots.

For other armies though, I dont think one is significantly better over the other, and comes down to personal preference.

My favorite patter is the Redeemer, most people complain that you can't place both flamestorm cannons on the same target, when you wound on 2+ and ignore most armor you don't both of them. The extra flamestorm cannon is just a spare.

The crusader is kinda meh, if I wanted bolters I would take tacticals, which can hold objectives. If it had 4x the firepower I'd consider taking one (looking at you Dark Angels).

The main issue is that 6th Edition has just pushed away from assault units being worth it. It's been harder and harder to assault terminators to do good work in this edition.

If you want the flame storm cannon, take the Baal.
I like the classic land raider the best. The long range firepower lets you take decent shots after dropping off the assault.

 Thaylen wrote:

 tuiman wrote:
For grey knights I think I will always go crusader over redeemer because of psybolt ammo. Suddenly 4 S7 rending shots and 6 (12) S5 bolter shots.

For other armies though, I dont think one is significantly better over the other, and comes down to personal preference.

My favorite patter is the Redeemer, most people complain that you can't place both flamestorm cannons on the same target, when you wound on 2+ and ignore most armor you don't both of them. The extra flamestorm cannon is just a spare.

The crusader is kinda meh, if I wanted bolters I would take tacticals, which can hold objectives. If it had 4x the firepower I'd consider taking one (looking at you Dark Angels).

The main issue is that 6th Edition has just pushed away from assault units being worth it. It's been harder and harder to assault terminators to do good work in this edition.

Yea I agree that the redeemer is probably the better variant (outside of grey knights for the above reasons). I already have a crusader and fill it with draigo and 5 combat kitted paladins, have also tried it with an inquisitor and max squad of crusaders/deathcults. In friendly games this is a great tactic for me as lack of things that can kill the raider, but in a tournament scene...AV14 is not as durable as it once was, hopefully future codexs will have some new rule to make land raiders more sturdy again, but thats for another topic.

I dislike the redeemer because it must get withing melta range to even use its side weapons. I have punished this version over and over.

Crusaders can do their job from over 12" away. They'd get less shots from their side sponsons but they usually snapfire away. It's important to keep the Assault Cannon and MM firing at all times imo if you plan on making back some of the points you invested in the LR. Most melta threats don't have that long of a threat range. Maximizing the LRC's range is to your benefit.

Redeemers always seems like a great idea in my head, but whenever I play with them, they never seemed to work out.

its all personal preference...

However, I've found the redeemer to be a bit of a wet lettuce (and that's in insult to the lettuce ). Its flamers are too easily avoided, so it relies on the multi melta/ assault cannon, where with the crusader you can at least snap fire the bolters etc.

The good old gunboat landraider is still a good bet, my GK one has had many an adventure, especially giving 3 vendettas and 2 vanquishers a hard time before finally being blown up (the worst ig player I've ever encountered lol), and I ran over a newbie player by driving it in his face with 2 supporting rhinos. A turn 2 assault buggered him up even if it was on 1 HP the necron player pretty much folded at that point


I've always wanted to run a list with 2 in, but it never struck me with Space wolves, GK are too expensive so I think doing Black Templars might be in order- Purge the Heretics (before we get buggered by a melta gun shot )

Martel732 wrote:
I dislike the redeemer because it must get withing melta range to even use its side weapons. I have punished this version over and over.

The primary weapon system on a land raider is hammernators, which only really works in melta range. If I gotta get to melta range do deliver the goods, I may as well have some awesome flamers while I do it. Flamestorms also put the hurt on melta squads that fail to kill the LR.

It all depends on your meta. If your playing vs more MEQ, the redeemer is generally considered better. If your playing against more GEQ/TEQ then the crusader is considered better.

In large events the crusader is what I would take today.

People keep saying the flamers on a Redeemer are easy to avoid, which makes me wonder which game they are playing. With Redeemers, you Tank Shock, then drop the templet over 8-9 models, which all generate a wound that only TEQ can roll saves against.

With Crusaders, you want to avoid Tank Shocking, and stay at mid-range to maximize firepower and while minimizing its cargo's charge distance.

Both variants, however, are lock to specific tactics which make them predictable. The Godhammer can Tank Shock or dominate mid-range, but unlike the other two it can also sit back and snipe. The original is still the most flexible of the three.

In the end, the variant you use should best be defined by the role you plan for it to play in your army. If you need to move an oversized unit, the Crusader is the better pick yet dictates a mid-range tactic. If you play aggressive and plan of disrupting foot MEQ, the Redeemer just might be the better pick. If you want a tactically flexible tank that can fulfill many different roles within a flexible army list, the old Godhammer still remains the better choice.

SJ

Personally...I find the Godhammer to be the best of all of them...but then, I play GKs.

Though, my best Land Raider experience ever was rolling through a daemon list with a Banisher in a LRC and watching them disintegrate. as he goes around unharmed.

The best Variant?

Spartan Assault Tank.

Dohohohoho.

Google....and...

IS THAT 4 TL LASCANNONS?

 ductvader wrote:
Google....and...

IS THAT 4 TL LASCANNONS?

With 5 hull points.

Where are your gods now heretics?

And those are two twin linked two shot lascannons, with a TL heavy bolter (not that anyone cares about the heavy bolters) and options for pintleguns. It can get frag launchers, ceramite plating (feth meltaguns) and can carry 25 marines or more than an entire Termi squad to bash faces in.

And it doesn't cost that much more than a regular old Phobos class Raider.

I do like all three

Land Raider “God-Hammer”: I don’t use it a lot, but when I use one it usually dominates the game. The Range of the Las-Cannons lets me kill most things quickly. With my Grey Knights and the Special Ammo it gets good vs. transports and makes the Storm Bolters deadly to.

Land Raider Crusader: I have not used it with my Dark Angles yet, but I love it with my Loganwing. I usually get into the center of the table and get immobilized, but then everything within 24” starts to look for cover.

Land Raider Redeemer: I love the Redeemer, it instills Fear in most of my opponents getting allot of fire in its direction. With Extra Armor and Smoke I usually make it across the table. I have even gotten to fire both Flamers on the same squad a few times.

Best Redeemer Story Ever [at least for my group]:


My Land Raider horror Story:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Spartan.pdf

2 TL 2 shot LC's, essentially.