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Jy2 brings his Triple Turkey Chaos list out to Challenge the Mighty, Mighty Footdar! - See more at: http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/06/29/video-battle-report-jy2s-triple-dragon-chaos-vs-reecius-footdar/#sthash.15dv3ErP.dpuf

Nice close game. I have to say, I was skeptical about footdar's viability vs serpent spam but I am becoming convinced

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Nice close game. I have to say, I was skeptical about footdar's viability vs serpent spam but I am becoming convinced

Yes, but did you see how much damage that ONE serpent did? It had to be the mvp that game.

Great game! What were the Fire Dragons doing all game though? I feel like that's one of your better Heldrake killers; 11 twin-linked meltaguns (assuming guide/prescience).

Also, what were your thoughts on the Autarch? You said you were testing him out, but didn't give a final verdict. Will that be a permanent change to the list?

Good luck at the tournament!

I am planning on doing the same Autarch load out to see how he does. It is a toss up thought between another farseer for fortune.

One thing you can do to try to limit the damage of the hell turkeys is to put your ICs in front of the squishy units. With Fortune added they can tank the wounds.

I think that 2 squads of 5 Warp Spiders are better than 1 unit of 10. Also you can keep them in reserve and try to deep strike behind the hell drakes.

I thought Florida was hot right now. That temperature is pretty absurd. Don't remember LA getting that hot during the summer last time I was there, but that was a while back.

They've been having trouble getting Wave Serpents in around here too. I ended up just getting a battleforce as I plan to use all the things in there anyway.

Good game, glad the Hellions came through for you at the end, shame about the Wraithknight though. Seemed like you were getting pretty agrivated with your poor luck, there.

So is that what my terrain is gonna look like? :p

Believe it or not, I actually ran this list not to try to beat his footdar, but rather, to help his eldar improve. If he brings his footdar to a tournament, believe me, he's going to encounter triple-heldrake lists, which is a common competitive tournament build. He's got to be able to handle and even overcome this type of list, especially when run by a very good player. Consider this game a test as well as practice game for his eldar. I don't normally run triple-heldrakes, but I did so deliberately to truly test Reece's list. And honestly, I was expecting to dominate his eldar.



My list:


1750 CHAOS MARINES W/DAEMON ALLIES

Daemon Prince - Lvl 3, 3+, Wings, Tzeentch, Black Mace, Gift of Mutation - Doombolt, Warp Speed

Warlord Trait: Scoring

Fateweaver - Crap powers other than Prescience, Terrfiy

11x Cultists
10x Cultists
10x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors

Heldrake
Heldrake
Heldrake

Daemon Prince - 3+, Wings, Tzeentch, Lvl 2, 1x Greater (3+ Save, WTF?!?), 1x Exalted (Grimoire) - Prescience, Flickering Fire



It was a game of back-&-forth, with both of us getting lucky at times. However, what saved Reece's bacon was NO HELLDRAKES COMING IN ON TURN 2!!!! Then on Turn 3, ONLY 1 HELDRAKE CAME IN!!!

Jy2 should have dominated Reece because of his awesome shirt, Montreal FTW!

JY2, why didn't you trade in the 3+ armor for the Greater Etherblade? Maybe not as good as any other gift, but +1 STR and Master Crafted is better than nothing.

anonymou5 wrote:
JY2, why didn't you trade in the 3+ armor for the Greater Etherblade? Maybe not as good as any other gift, but +1 STR and Master Crafted is better than nothing.

Doh!

Forgot.

Forgot a couple of other things, like to roll for my Gift of Mutation or.....


....to take the 3-pt objective on Turn 6 FTW!!! Damn building in the center....blocked my LOS to the objective. Otherwise, I would have won with turkeys on 2 objectives to his 1 troop on 1 objective.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mortetvie wrote:
Jy2 should have dominated Reece because of his awesome shirt, Montreal FTW!

I was actually there a long time ago. That tank may just be older than some of the viewers here.

Ha Jy2, I hope you enjoyed your visit to Montreal, I was born there =).

Anyway, shame you forgot about actually claiming the objectives lol....There were some crazy dice there between you and Reece!

I actually find Helldrakes/Flying Circuis a pain to deal with for my Eldar as well...Hammer and Anvil deployment was lucky for Reece as was no Hell Drakes in until 4 really...

I've actually started taking Dark Reapers and Tau Allies to deal with enemy flyers because Hell Drakes are so darn prevalent in my meta.

I think it would be interesting to see a rematch of these two armies again as I feel a lot of strange variables occured. I would like to see everything work as normal for example the heldrakes coming in on turn 2 instead of 4! Plus now that Reece understands what potential devestation that black mace prince can bring. It also makes me laugh to see Reece's mood swing from turn to turn.

 jy2 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
JY2, why didn't you trade in the 3+ armor for the Greater Etherblade? Maybe not as good as any other gift, but +1 STR and Master Crafted is better than nothing.

Doh!

Forgot.

Going to plug myself for a second, but if you check my gallery you'll see the bookkeeping cards I made for Daemons. Feel free to use them, they help a lot (just print to the size you like and laminate). I made them in PPT, so if you like the basic concept but want to edit them, let me know, I can send you the originals (this goes for anyone reading, I guess)

They're also awesome for transparency, so your opponent knows what you're doing (as Daemon Powers can get overwhelming)

Edit: Couple of small mistakes on them (I left the Staff of Change on the Slaneesh Prince card, and didn't number all the gifts....although they're still in the right order, so still usable. I'll fix and reupload later, but they're still very usable)

It was a great game! Always love frontline gamings vids and cant wait to see the results from the tourney

I think JY2 got a lot more boned by luck in this game than Reece!.

@JY2, you should have stuck Fateweaver in those ruins and just GTG for the 2+ reroll (thats what I like to do if I cant hide him completely)

dont think fate can go to ground... isnt he fearless

Daemons auto pass morale but do not have the fearless rule.

Last edition MCs could not gtg but I can't find the rule in this edition.

 Valek wrote:
dont think fate can go to ground... isnt he fearless

He is not.



I definitely think Serpent spam is stronger against the meta but footdar are so much more fun.

I also agree that Jim got shafted on luck more then Reece this game, one passed reserve roll in 7 attempts is crazy.

 mortetvie wrote:
Ha Jy2, I hope you enjoyed your visit to Montreal, I was born there =).

Anyway, shame you forgot about actually claiming the objectives lol....There were some crazy dice there between you and Reece!

I actually find Helldrakes/Flying Circuis a pain to deal with for my Eldar as well...Hammer and Anvil deployment was lucky for Reece as was no Hell Drakes in until 4 really...

I've actually started taking Dark Reapers and Tau Allies to deal with enemy flyers because Hell Drakes are so darn prevalent in my meta.

I like the combo of Eldar+Tau (Taudar) as well as Eldar+Dark Eldar (Deldar). They work really well together and Tau really helps to address some of the shortcomings of eldar.

My LOS to the 3-pt objective was blocked. I definitely should have scanned the objectives beforehand, however, my mind was too focused on killing the Baron's unit. It was my own fault.

 y0disisray wrote:
I think it would be interesting to see a rematch of these two armies again as I feel a lot of strange variables occured. I would like to see everything work as normal for example the heldrakes coming in on turn 2 instead of 4! Plus now that Reece understands what potential devestation that black mace prince can bring. It also makes me laugh to see Reece's mood swing from turn to turn.

No need for a rematch. We all know triple-heldrakes is a bad matchup for footdar (though not an unwinnable one) just like venom-spam is a bad matchup for tyranids. The underdog armies can still win, but it would require some luck on their part (or bad luck for the opponent) and a mistake-free game in order for the underdog to pull it off.

anonymou5 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:
JY2, why didn't you trade in the 3+ armor for the Greater Etherblade? Maybe not as good as any other gift, but +1 STR and Master Crafted is better than nothing.

Doh!

Forgot.

Going to plug myself for a second, but if you check my gallery you'll see the bookkeeping cards I made for Daemons. Feel free to use them, they help a lot (just print to the size you like and laminate). I made them in PPT, so if you like the basic concept but want to edit them, let me know, I can send you the originals (this goes for anyone reading, I guess)

They're also awesome for transparency, so your opponent knows what you're doing (as Daemon Powers can get overwhelming)

Edit: Couple of small mistakes on them (I left the Staff of Change on the Slaneesh Prince card, and didn't number all the gifts....although they're still in the right order, so still usable. I'll fix and reupload later, but they're still very usable)

Cool. I'll check them out.

 LValx wrote:
I think JY2 got a lot more boned by luck in this game than Reece!.

@JY2, you should have stuck Fateweaver in those ruins and just GTG for the 2+ reroll (thats what I like to do if I cant hide him completely)

I did G-T-G with him, which is probably the only reason why he lived.

However, it is only a 3+ cover by doing so. You only get 2+ cover if you G-T-G behind the Aegis or a Fortification.

 Valek wrote:
dont think fate can go to ground... isnt he fearless

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Daemons auto pass morale but do not have the fearless rule.

Last edition MCs could not gtg but I can't find the rule in this edition.

Daemon MC's can G-T-G in this edition in the same way that plaguebearers can G-T-G behind ruins for 2+ cover. Daemons aren't fearless and MC's no longer have the restriction of not being able to G-T-G.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Valek wrote:
dont think fate can go to ground... isnt he fearless

He is not.



I definitely think Serpent spam is stronger against the meta but footdar are so much more fun.

I also agree that Jim got shafted on luck more then Reece this game, one passed reserve roll in 7 attempts is crazy.

Yeah, up to the end of Turn 3, I only had 1 helturkey on the board. Reece could have probably actually tabled me with the way my reserves were going.

But once the turkeys came in, man oh man....they were nasty. Suffice to say that if they came in much earlier, I don't think footdar has much of a chance against this type of list barring extreme luck.

If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah. I dont find Footdar competitive. Triple Heldrakes run by a competent player will just about always win. Plus it seems like too much of a handicap to deny yourself the amazing that is Wave Serpents.

But I respect Reece for doing something different, though I my have my doubts that he could win a GT with it.

I think a combination of both is what you need, adding 2 waveserpents for mobility and resillience would do it, they can easely take over the volume of shots WW's pump out.

 LValx wrote:
If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?

Don't think that works that way as you get the cover save from ruins from the ruin itself, not the area terrain. These are two separate things.
So the +2 from going to ground would only work for the area terrain part, not the ruin part.

DutchSage wrote:

 LValx wrote:
If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?

Don't think that works that way as you get the cover save from ruins from the ruin itself, not the area terrain. These are two separate things.
So the +2 from going to ground would only work for the area terrain part, not the ruin part.

it works. You receive a 4+ from the ruin itself. If there is a base, that base is considered area meaning if you go to ground you receive a +2. In this case its +2 to to a 4+ instead of the usual 5+.

 LValx wrote:

DutchSage wrote:

 LValx wrote:
If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?

Don't think that works that way as you get the cover save from ruins from the ruin itself, not the area terrain. These are two separate things.
So the +2 from going to ground would only work for the area terrain part, not the ruin part.

it works. You receive a 4+ from the ruin itself. If there is a base, that base is considered area meaning if you go to ground you receive a +2. In this case its +2 to to a 4+ instead of the usual 5+.

Of course there is the stipulation that the ruins actually have to obscure at least 25% of the MC as well.

Personally, I wouldn't claim the 2+ cover as it seems to me to be exploiting a loophole in the rules. I see it as potentially leading to arguments in a game and could also possibly lead to your Sportsmanship scores getting docked in a tournament that includes Sportsmanship.

 jy2 wrote:

 LValx wrote:

DutchSage wrote:

 LValx wrote:
If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?

Don't think that works that way as you get the cover save from ruins from the ruin itself, not the area terrain. These are two separate things.
So the +2 from going to ground would only work for the area terrain part, not the ruin part.

it works. You receive a 4+ from the ruin itself. If there is a base, that base is considered area meaning if you go to ground you receive a +2. In this case its +2 to to a 4+ instead of the usual 5+.

Of course there is the stipulation that the ruins actually have to obscure at least 25% of the MC as well.

Personally, I wouldn't claim the 2+ cover as it seems to me to be exploiting a loophole in the rules. I see it as potentially leading to arguments in a game and could also possibly lead to your Sportsmanship scores getting docked in a tournament that includes Sportsmanship.

I've never had an issue with it and i've seen others play it that way, in and outside of events. I think as written, its perfectly clear that it works.

I've run triple drakes in a few tournements. First one without a comms Relay, the second with. And I tell you what. What a difference that makes. 70pts to ensure utter destruction is totally worth it. If I am running 3 drakes with deepstriking obliterators in the future, a comms relay is ALWAYS coming to.

Going to ground in a ruin is a commonly misunderstood rule.

Going to ground in area terrain gives +2 for a 3+. Going to ground behind a ruin gives a +1 for a 3+. The only terrain that gives a 2+ for going to ground behind it is an Aegis.

Yeah, the reserves helps me a lot as did the deployment. The mission hurt, though.

My Spiders usually kill a flyer a game. I have had great luck with them, this was the worst game for them I have ever had, by a long shot. I honestly felt I could down at least two of the turkeys with ground fire but had some bad breaks there.

Triple Dragon is a horrible match-up for the Footdar (as it is for almost any foot army baring Terminator spam).

It was a super fun game though and very challenging as always against Jim! Haha, and you can always tell my emotional state in a tense game as I am so vocal and animated, hahahaha, I watch myself on the videos and laugh because I am so ridiculous sometimes without realizing it but oh well.

Spiders can do better, but on a regular table (not Hammer and Anvil) there is no place to hide them.
Apart from max coherence spreading, there's not a lot you can do to prevent a Helldrake to alpha strike them. Reserves perhaps.

Yeah, you deep strike them. In this game though, Jim not coming on would have been a benefit to him! I would have used the Autarch to try and keep them off the table until a Turkey came on and then deep struck to shoot one in the butt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But also, bear in mind the Turkey cannot kill models it cannot see, even with a template weapons. Only models in LoS can be killed, although models out of LoS can be used to add wounds to the wound pool. So, if you have something they can hide under, they can be spared the Turkey's wrath!

 jy2 wrote:

 LValx wrote:

DutchSage wrote:

 LValx wrote:
If you are in a ruin and GTG it is 2+ cover. 4+ from the ruin, +2 from being in the area at the base = 2+. But from what I saw you weren't in the area of the base of that ruin or was there no base?

Don't think that works that way as you get the cover save from ruins from the ruin itself, not the area terrain. These are two separate things.
So the +2 from going to ground would only work for the area terrain part, not the ruin part.

it works. You receive a 4+ from the ruin itself. If there is a base, that base is considered area meaning if you go to ground you receive a +2. In this case its +2 to to a 4+ instead of the usual 5+.

Of course there is the stipulation that the ruins actually have to obscure at least 25% of the MC as well.

Personally, I wouldn't claim the 2+ cover as it seems to me to be exploiting a loophole in the rules. I see it as potentially leading to arguments in a game and could also possibly lead to your Sportsmanship scores getting docked in a tournament that includes Sportsmanship.

I thought they got rid of monstrous creatures needing 25% coverage to gain a cover save?