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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/04 22:24:37
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Don't make me get in to a debate on the nature of writing vs proto-writing.
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/04 22:25:55
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Melissia wrote:Don't make me get in to a debate on the nature of writing vs proto-writing.
Well if the arguments on Civfanatics are anything to go by, you're only a real civilization if you get featured in a Civ Game. Which means that pre-colonial Hawaii is more legit than Poland.
Edit: God damn it Firaxis, you and your Brave new world expansion ruined my joke.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/04 22:27:03
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/04 22:31:06
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider
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Kain wrote:Mellow wrote:You would think that a race that has been star faring for MILLIONS of years would be able to wipe the floor with everyone else who has only been around for THOUSANDS of years. (except the Necrons naturally)
The Eldar are just dumb/rubbish.
The Orks are also millions of years old, having been created along with the Eldar to fight the Necrons. The Tyranids are billions of years old as per their codex and have already won at least twelve times in other galaxies.
Which Codex mentions them eating 12 other galaxies? 3rd? Would you be allowed to share a synopsis of the story?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/04 22:42:53
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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"Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed." - p. 166, 5th edition rulebook
It is an omniscient narrator POV giving that quote on the background blurb on Tyranids. Tyranids don't communicate with other races and have no need for propaganda so neither of those explanations can be used to write off that quote.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/04 23:02:49
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider
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Iracundus wrote:
"Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed." - p. 166, 5th edition rulebook
It is an omniscient narrator POV giving that quote on the background blurb on Tyranids. Tyranids don't communicate with other races and have no need for propaganda so neither of those explanations can be used to write off that quote.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 07:55:09
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Melissia wrote:There are older civilizations than Greeks and Egyptians-- most of whom Mellow has never even heard of 
Yes, but I feel it's a slightly different situation when said races have already developed the means to travel vast distances through space. Automatically Appended Next Post: Iracundus wrote:
"Behind the Hive Fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed." - p. 166, 5th edition rulebook
It is an omniscient narrator POV giving that quote on the background blurb on Tyranids. Tyranids don't communicate with other races and have no need for propaganda so neither of those explanations can be used to write off that quote.
12 seems like an awful lot given the actual size of a galaxy and the apparent number of species in the 40k Milky Way
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 07:57:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 08:37:12
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
West Midlands (UK)
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Mellow wrote: Melissia wrote:There are older civilizations than Greeks and Egyptians-- most of whom Mellow has never even heard of 
Yes, but I feel it's a slightly different situation when said races have already developed the means to travel vast distances through space.
Good for you.
But there is a difference between saying
" You would think that a race ....."
And
" I feel it's a slightly different situation..."
If you had made it clear in your original post that you have an opinion that deviates from what most people would assume, based on the historic references we have (i.e. Empires rise and (!) fall, and not infrequently by succumbing to decadence) and which obviously also inspired the Elder (or, more correctly, every depiction of Elves, Eldar Races in Sci-Fantasy and Fantasy Fiction ever), as well as providing a couple of paragraphs of compelling arguments of why you think this incredibly common fictional trope, which is also directly inspired by a very consistent actual historical pattern, should not apply to the Eldar in Warhammer 40K, we'd be having a far more interesting discussion.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 08:38:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 08:50:19
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mellow wrote:
12 seems like an awful lot given the actual size of a galaxy and the apparent number of species in the 40k Milky Way
The nearest Galaxies to the Milky Way are small, mini-galaxies and there are a large number of them. The nearest 'major' Galaxy, Andromeda is such a long distance away the Tyranids would never have made it to the Milky Way before starving. If some hive fleet Tendrils can be 'starved out' in the Milky Way in any way at all, the astronomically larger distance to Andromeda would clearly be impossible for them to traverse, looking at the size difference and the fact they move slower than the Milky Way Natives do.
So it's likely the Tyranids cleared their mini-clusters of any life and biomass and are moving to the large Galaxy proper, to play with the big boys.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 08:51:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 09:14:32
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Daba wrote:Mellow wrote:
12 seems like an awful lot given the actual size of a galaxy and the apparent number of species in the 40k Milky Way
The nearest Galaxies to the Milky Way are small, mini-galaxies and there are a large number of them. The nearest 'major' Galaxy, Andromeda is such a long distance away the Tyranids would never have made it to the Milky Way before starving. If some hive fleet Tendrils can be 'starved out' in the Milky Way in any way at all, the astronomically larger distance to Andromeda would clearly be impossible for them to traverse, looking at the size difference and the fact they move slower than the Milky Way Natives do.
So it's likely the Tyranids cleared their mini-clusters of any life and biomass and are moving to the large Galaxy proper, to play with the big boys.
Given that GW neither really considers the implications of what it writes and always writes for the maximum cool factor, it's just as likely that they devoured twelve major galaxies and didn't even count the satellite galaxies as being real entities (I mean, to most people it's just the Milky Way, Andromeda, and occasionally the Triangulum).
Addittionally, as Tyranid FTL is gravity based, locking on to an entire galaxy may give them a substantial speed boost.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 09:28:58
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kain wrote:
Given that GW neither really considers the implications of what it writes and always writes for the maximum cool factor, it's just as likely that they devoured twelve major galaxies and didn't even count the satellite galaxies as being real entities (I mean, to most people it's just the Milky Way, Andromeda, and occasionally the Triangulum).
Addittionally, as Tyranid FTL is gravity based, locking on to an entire galaxy may give them a substantial speed boost.
They should really revert that because it (A) weakens the setting and (B) makes little sense as an FTL; in actuality the Tyranids would get better propulsion through farting. Literally.
Using the gravity of a far off object is like cooking your dinner with a candle in the middle of a field, 10+ miles away from you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 09:33:57
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Daba wrote: Kain wrote:
Given that GW neither really considers the implications of what it writes and always writes for the maximum cool factor, it's just as likely that they devoured twelve major galaxies and didn't even count the satellite galaxies as being real entities (I mean, to most people it's just the Milky Way, Andromeda, and occasionally the Triangulum).
Addittionally, as Tyranid FTL is gravity based, locking on to an entire galaxy may give them a substantial speed boost.
They should really revert that because it (A) weakens the setting and (B) makes little sense as an FTL; in actuality the Tyranids would get better propulsion through farting. Literally.
Using the gravity of a far off object is like cooking your dinner with a candle in the middle of a field, 10+ miles away from you.
The alternatives are to give the Tyranids straight up warp travel or invent yet another entirely new FTL system...and that's about it because no FTL makes no sense and the webway existing other galaxies is stupid, especially when the Tyranids predate the Old Ones by several billion years.
And how does the Tyranids having their own FTL weaken the setting?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 09:34:26
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 09:54:08
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
West Midlands (UK)
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Tyranids just eat up the distance. Yummy
And there they are!!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 11:07:44
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kain wrote:
The alternatives are to give the Tyranids straight up warp travel or invent yet another entirely new FTL system...and that's about it because no FTL makes no sense and the webway existing other galaxies is stupid, especially when the Tyranids predate the Old Ones by several billion years.
And how does the Tyranids having their own FTL weaken the setting?
The Warp is pretty fundamental and central to the 40k setting. The entire universe and the fact Space Travel was possible for the sentient races (before) was because of the Warp. It was the fundamental constant that allowed it to behave outside of 'normal' science which is normally only stretched by sci-fi stuff. Even the Necrons (who may or may not use it, depending on what their gates actually are) are in the position because of their relationship with the Warp and Warp-utilising races.
It would be better if they used straight Warp travel (the Tyranid have minds and even psykers so can affect the Warp already), and the Webway is just one of the utilisations of the warp.
In fact, there's nothing wrong with straight up Warp travel and it would be better if all the FTL in the setting were tied to it in some way, as it is an important unifying concept in the 40k mythos.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 11:29:41
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Daba wrote: Kain wrote:
The alternatives are to give the Tyranids straight up warp travel or invent yet another entirely new FTL system...and that's about it because no FTL makes no sense and the webway existing other galaxies is stupid, especially when the Tyranids predate the Old Ones by several billion years.
And how does the Tyranids having their own FTL weaken the setting?
The Warp is pretty fundamental and central to the 40k setting. The entire universe and the fact Space Travel was possible for the sentient races (before) was because of the Warp. It was the fundamental constant that allowed it to behave outside of 'normal' science which is normally only stretched by sci-fi stuff. Even the Necrons (who may or may not use it, depending on what their gates actually are) are in the position because of their relationship with the Warp and Warp-utilising races.
It would be better if they used straight Warp travel (the Tyranid have minds and even psykers so can affect the Warp already), and the Webway is just one of the utilisations of the warp.
In fact, there's nothing wrong with straight up Warp travel and it would be better if all the FTL in the setting were tied to it in some way, as it is an important unifying concept in the 40k mythos.
The necrons have inertialess drives again as of IA12 (though they are slower than the Dolmen Gates, but still faster than Imperial Warp travel), but the Necron's big thing is that they have nothing to do with the warp.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 11:40:30
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I've found that when i read about the Eldar I get one of two things:
1) "Just as planned". Someone mentioned this earlier (credit to you) and I have to agree. They appear, murder some stupid amount of some random faction, destroy or steal whatever they came for and disappear. Some of the more annoying ones don't even say what they were trying to do.
2)"Tactical Genius'd". OK, so reading about how Creed outmaneuvered an Eldar warhost made me raise an eyebrow. I know, i know, Creed and all, but the number of times I've read about how the Eldar constantly get out done by the Imperium are sort of silly.
Overall? I think a race that is as old as the Eldar, proclaimed to be the wisest of all, and according to their fluff, wield some of the most devastating weaponry in the galaxy...would be a tad more scary, both in the fluff and on the table. For godsakes, their guns shoot razor-sharp glass, and the IG have laser-rifles...need I say more?
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Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 13:10:43
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kain wrote: Daba wrote: Kain wrote:
The alternatives are to give the Tyranids straight up warp travel or invent yet another entirely new FTL system...and that's about it because no FTL makes no sense and the webway existing other galaxies is stupid, especially when the Tyranids predate the Old Ones by several billion years.
And how does the Tyranids having their own FTL weaken the setting?
The Warp is pretty fundamental and central to the 40k setting. The entire universe and the fact Space Travel was possible for the sentient races (before) was because of the Warp. It was the fundamental constant that allowed it to behave outside of 'normal' science which is normally only stretched by sci-fi stuff. Even the Necrons (who may or may not use it, depending on what their gates actually are) are in the position because of their relationship with the Warp and Warp-utilising races.
It would be better if they used straight Warp travel (the Tyranid have minds and even psykers so can affect the Warp already), and the Webway is just one of the utilisations of the warp.
In fact, there's nothing wrong with straight up Warp travel and it would be better if all the FTL in the setting were tied to it in some way, as it is an important unifying concept in the 40k mythos.
The necrons have inertialess drives again as of IA12 (though they are slower than the Dolmen Gates, but still faster than Imperial Warp travel), but the Necron's big thing is that they have nothing to do with the warp.
Yeah, but with the Necrons it still arises from jealousy of Warp users. (but it would have been better if they were an STL race before Dolmens, Inertialess [which isn't unique to Necrons, Eldar Darkstar Fighters use them too] should have been left as sublight.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 13:23:53
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
West Midlands (UK)
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Kain wrote:
The necrons have inertialess drives again as of IA12 (though they are slower than the Dolmen Gates, but still faster than Imperial Warp travel), but the Necron's big thing is that they have nothing to do with the warp.
Well, in classical special and general relativity, massless (inertialess) bodies are still constrained to move at exactly the speed of light maximum, which is still pretty damn slow for intra- and especially intergalactical travel in the 40K-sense of things.
Which makes inertialess drive a rather unsatisfactory explanation for FTL, unless it is inertialess drive + something else, which would likely be something warp-related again in the (meta-)physicality of the 40K-verse.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 13:39:17
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Zweischneid wrote: Kain wrote:
The necrons have inertialess drives again as of IA12 (though they are slower than the Dolmen Gates, but still faster than Imperial Warp travel), but the Necron's big thing is that they have nothing to do with the warp.
Well, in classical special and general relativity, massless (inertialess) bodies are still constrained to move at exactly the speed of light maximum, which is still pretty damn slow for intra- and especially intergalactical travel in the 40K-sense of things.
Which makes inertialess drive a rather unsatisfactory explanation for FTL, unless it is inertialess drive + something else, which would likely be something warp-related again in the (meta-)physicality of the 40K-verse.
Very much agreed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 15:08:30
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Fixture of Dakka
Temple Prime
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Daba wrote: Kain wrote: Daba wrote: Kain wrote:
The alternatives are to give the Tyranids straight up warp travel or invent yet another entirely new FTL system...and that's about it because no FTL makes no sense and the webway existing other galaxies is stupid, especially when the Tyranids predate the Old Ones by several billion years.
And how does the Tyranids having their own FTL weaken the setting?
The Warp is pretty fundamental and central to the 40k setting. The entire universe and the fact Space Travel was possible for the sentient races (before) was because of the Warp. It was the fundamental constant that allowed it to behave outside of 'normal' science which is normally only stretched by sci-fi stuff. Even the Necrons (who may or may not use it, depending on what their gates actually are) are in the position because of their relationship with the Warp and Warp-utilising races.
It would be better if they used straight Warp travel (the Tyranid have minds and even psykers so can affect the Warp already), and the Webway is just one of the utilisations of the warp.
In fact, there's nothing wrong with straight up Warp travel and it would be better if all the FTL in the setting were tied to it in some way, as it is an important unifying concept in the 40k mythos.
The necrons have inertialess drives again as of IA12 (though they are slower than the Dolmen Gates, but still faster than Imperial Warp travel), but the Necron's big thing is that they have nothing to do with the warp.
Yeah, but with the Necrons it still arises from jealousy of Warp users. (but it would have been better if they were an STL race before Dolmens, Inertialess [which isn't unique to Necrons, Eldar Darkstar Fighters use them too] should have been left as sublight.)
It's likely that whatever metaphysics the more stable drive uses is cribbed off the C'tan. The Dolmen drive is likely just something they use for emergencies, while their more stable drive is probably for trips where having to rely on the good graces of the webway would be suicide. After all, the Necrons have to have some credible way of moving at FTL without killing themselves half the time because the Webway doesn't like their chocolate in it's peanut butter.
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Midnightdeathblade wrote:Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 16:51:25
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Screamin' Stormboy
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Bums me out how the Avatar always gets stomped, and im a Marines player too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/05 17:12:24
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Same thing happens to Titans and Emperor Class Battleships. It's a little thing called the Whorf Effect, and it would seem the Eldar are a race of Whorfs (Whorves?).
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/06 00:48:27
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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The Eldar are losing.
They are a dying race. The birth rate cannot keep up with the rate at which Eldar lives are lost much less allow them to grow.
They may win every battle, but they will lose the war. Their enemies can afford losses, the Eldar cannot.
The Eldar are filling in a classic trope. A dying race who are super advanced, but every loss makes them weaker and weaker.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/06 04:52:41
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Main issue is... they DON'T win every battle. If anything, they seem to be losing every battle like crazy.
It's one thing to have a dying race that's dying DESPITE winning every battle.
But when you have a dying race that's dying AND LOSING every battle, it just starts getting silly and hard to take seriously.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/06 17:58:07
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Sinewy Scourge
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In their current condition, the Eldar should be effortlessly brushing aside most armies.
Dark Eldar, Necrons, Tau and Tyranids should be the only armies that Eldar consider technologically competitive enough to provide a challenge.
There doesn't seem to be much hostility between them and DE. Tau can be reasoned with and conflict with them is seldom necessary.
Which just leaves Necrons and Tyranids as armies to which the Eldar could justifiably lose battles.
I'm not sure why if seems they can't do anything right despite their psychic leadership.
I noticed that in fluff, they're all badass and ninja until they face SMs, at which point they become clumsy, foolish, slow, stupid, etc.
One minute they're dancing around Orcs, dodging bullets, decapitating Warbosses... The next they're being punched to death by a tactical marine.
GW doesn't understand that we get it. They're a dying race. That doesn't mean they should be losing left and right.
Honestly, with Farseers, they should be winning 99% of their battles. But the casualties from these encounters would be nigh irreplaceable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/06 18:16:27
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Los Angeles, CA
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They're a dying species, so, in my mind, they should be fighting an overall losing war against the younger races. It seems odd that they lose the vast majority of individual battles, but they should be losing the "war."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/06 23:37:21
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The battle for Iyanden was one example of GW doing it right.
The Eldar win battle after battle both in space and later on Iyanden, but they are ground down in a war of attrition.
Really that should be how Eldar of any stripe are portrayed. They should be hitting very hard and giving as good or better than they get, but if they lose it should be through attrition. Eldar Scorpions can cut their way effortlessly through Guardsmen faster than the human eye can follow, Fire Dragons intuitively pinpoint the weak points of the heaviest enemy war machines, and Eldar Warlocks and Farseers should weave mystically through hails of fire. Yet in the end the Guard can simply cross off entire regiments the way they expend ammunition and can keep fielding walls of infantry and squadrons of tanks long after the Eldar run out of ammunition or their sword arms tire. That way all factions can look good without one side having to be made to be deliberately idiotic and foolish in order to lose.
Some people at times seem to be trying to reach for some kind of inherent human specialness or redeeming strength. However it misses the point of the 40K universe. In 40K, humans are middle of the road average in most respects, fighting for survival against races either vastly more numerous, more psychically powerful, more individually tough, more individually skilled, or more united/less superstitious. Humans prevail through their numbers, determination, and faith, not through some inherent special strength. They prevail in spite of their mediocrity. They succeed because they are generalists, not because they are super special at any one area.
In most games, people like being the special "elite" hero on a hill mowing down hordes of faceless cannon fodder. This caters to the lure of being special and better than others. However in 40K, humans are the faceless cannon fodder charging that incredibly powerful figure on the hill. Orks are tougher and more numerous. Eldar faster and more skilled and use weird psychic technology. Chaos has supernatural powers and gifts. Tyranids are fast, have lethal toxins, and come in overwhelming numbers. To try and give humans some kind of inherent redeeming strength exceeding other races' strengths defeats the darkness of 40K.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/06 23:40:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/07 00:01:35
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Screaming Shining Spear
Pittsburgh, PA
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Iracundus wrote:They should be hitting very hard and giving as good or better than they get, but if they lose it should be through attrition.
The problem with this statement is that it's the Eldar's schtick to not get in fights of attrition in the first place. Iyanden was an exception because the fight was taking place on their Craftworld, but in any other situation, it's literally the Farseers' job to make sure they dpn't get in long, drawn-out fights.
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Eldar shenanigans are the best shenanigans!
DQ:90S++G+M--B+IPw40k09#+D++A++/areWD-R++T(T)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/07 00:08:40
Subject: Re:Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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MandalorynOranj wrote:Iracundus wrote:They should be hitting very hard and giving as good or better than they get, but if they lose it should be through attrition.
The problem with this statement is that it's the Eldar's schtick to not get in fights of attrition in the first place. Iyanden was an exception because the fight was taking place on their Craftworld, but in any other situation, it's literally the Farseers' job to make sure they dpn't get in long, drawn-out fights.
Not all plans come off exactly as planned. Nonetheless, the Eldar are few in a galaxy swarming with threats. It is possible for them like on Iyanden to engage multiple times, win multiple times, but still come off worse due to their inability to absorb casualties. There is also the possibility of their range of maneuver being restricted due to the sheer number of the enemy. The Eldar could be forced to choose between several courses of action, and depending on their objective they may not be able to fulfill all of them due to spreading themselves out.
The Eldar appearing in any 40K universe game at all is to some extent already an indication of things not going to plan. A 40K game according to how the Eldar should be acting would be like 2000 points against 200. Overwhelming force against an area of weakness, but that hardly makes for a fair or fun game. Also GW and BL fiction tends to favor matches of brute strength resulting in one to one duels or other clashes of headbutting force, and less so the kind of hit and fade fighting that Eldar should be shown doing. I suspect at some level GW writers still feel that kind of fighting is "unfair", and it would certainly be frustrating for the Eldar's enemies though that is the whole point.
One further additional difficulty is that some of the Eldar's greatest victories are supposed to be disasters or wars that are prevented. It is a lot harder to show something that was prevented and never happened than to show a victorious war that was fought, especially if one is not writing from the Eldar POV. Look at the latest Eldar Codex. That Waagh that would have hit Idharae Craftworld? Never happened because instead Ulthwe intervention brought about the rise of Ghazghkull and he turned his attention to the Imperium. However virtually no human is aware of this and they likely would not believe such a claim unless they believe in the efficacy of Eldar divinations.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/07 00:15:25
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/13 14:31:13
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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Roarin' Runtherd
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Fluff wise,
The Eldar are pretty much the most cowardly bunch, tied with Guardsmen (haha)
The Eldar are known to appear as if helping but are usually only interested in an artefact or other wanted items.
And once they either will inevitably fail their objective or achieve their objective they will retreat to the WEBWAY!
You lose because you never finish anything.
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"Wot's faster than a warbuggy, more killy than a warbike, and flies through da air like a bird? I got no bleedin' idea, but I'm gonna find out". - Speedfreak |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/13 16:30:39
Subject: Anyone else tired of the Eldar always losing?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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TiamatRoar wrote:Main issue is... they DON'T win every battle. If anything, they seem to be losing every battle like crazy.
It's one thing to have a dying race that's dying DESPITE winning every battle.
But when you have a dying race that's dying AND LOSING every battle, it just starts getting silly and hard to take seriously.
What the Eldar consider losing and what everyone else considers losing is 2 different things.
When ever an Eldar falls in battle, its considered a loss. They can't afford to lose even a single eldar, yet if they do not fight they will go extinct all the more sooner. And if they fight, eldar lives will be lost.
Its a lose-lose more situation.
The eldar may win battles from their opponent's perspective, yet the eldar rue each and every exchange.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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