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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops

Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).

 Grey Therion wrote:
I was at a local tournament today (1750points) and out of 6 Tau players there were only 3 Crisis Suits in TOTAL! The Riptide is just sturdier and easier to use under time pressure environment.

At the previous tournament I tried making a list around Crisis Suits and ended up fighting to see who would get last place!

I am excited to see what they do with the rules in the supplement and I think that it can be a great opportunity for the company to sell more Crisis Suits (and to have mine get un-boxed and out on the field again)!

And all that would have been solved by making the Iridium upgrade a normal support system but that wouldn't sell new kits similar to removing BS4 targetting array upgrades in preference to markerlights (which require actual new models to add in most cases).

I'm going to guess that the Farsight list will have the option of crisis suit troops which was sorely missing from the Empire codex. I was expecting it as a special ability for Farsight frankly.

We should probably go back and re-examine any farsight related rumors, especially FOC rumors, that we got early in the tau rumor season, as some of them may have come from sources who saw this book without realizing it wasn't the tau codex.

I'll pass. No desire to send $50 for a slightly altered army list. I can use farsight in my games right now. These supplements are a waste. If they did. say all 7 craft worlds in one book. then it would be a great idea. But one craftworld for $50. People are spending way too much money of fluff. Cause thats mostly what your getting. Same thing with this farsight codex. If I wanted to read crappy writing I'd buy one of their terribly written novels.

If only GW would put their time and energy in to not making crappy failcast models poised on one leg with a sword stiking out the side. Yeah, thats not gonna cause any breakage issues...

 spectreoneone wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops

Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).

From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The funny part is, if Iyanden is anything to go by, that you'll still be able to use Shadowsun in a Farsight army.

I thought that was strange too, the only downside to using Iyanden is that your spiritseers (not warlocks) get Voice of Twilight, and you get more remnants of glory and a new warlord table. You gain the ability to take some very serious buffs that Im positive wasn't entirely thought out.

Sidstyler wrote:

Ralis wrote:
No. I very much doubt that you'll have the option to make Riptide a warlord. After all Farsight is supposed to have broken way from the rest of the empire before it came out.

I very much doubt that will stop GW from making it an option, lol. Trust me, there will be some bs fluff pulled out of their ass to try and explain why the Farsight Enclaves not only have many riptides, but use them way more extensively than the Empire itself.

If I dared I'd even put money down that Farsight gets the option to take a riptide suit himself, with an up-sized Dawn Blade crafted by his own engineers who did extensive research on it and somehow managed to duplicate it.

You say this like it's a bad thing....

Personally, I would go out, buy a second riptide and the inevitable Fartide Conversion Kit (or two for dual wielded swords), and make that sucker up!

That said... I wouldn't pay £30 for the supplement anyway... soooo, there's that.

 Nilok wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops

Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).

From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.

 spectreoneone wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops

Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).

From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.

Not sure I agree. "They make their own" is a lot less creative than "they are getting them from someone, but nobody knows who." Especially when you include the lifespan stuff, the new fluff really creates a lot of interesting questions.

Why is this ipad only? Does GW not want to make money?

GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.

Nah, that would be Iyanden really. It's been a few months since Tau Empire came out so this is just regular DLC. Unless we can prove that the Farsight fluff and rules were purposely withheld for the supplement which, frankly I think we all know that's the case, but still.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.

They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.

 Rented Tritium wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 Nilok wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Riptide as warlord?
Im liking this idea. But if i was to guess, somehow stealth suits become troops

Although I wouldn't necessarily count that out on account that GW likes to pull some weird retcons at times, I would see Crisis suits becoming troops before stealth suits.

Riptide as a warlord? I'll pass. Honestly, I think they shouldn't allow the Farsight Enclaves to have Riptides, but that would be counterproductive to selling more of their shiny new gobs of plastic gold.

Despite the price, I'm snatching it up, 'cause hey, it's Tau, and I'll blow my money on that any day. Nevermind that $45-50 doesn't seem all that bad after I dropped $90 on IA3: 2nd Ed. (which is an awesome book for those who like to play Tau or Elysians, but I digress).

From the new Tau Codex, someone is feeding Farsight new weapons and prototypes from the Tau Empire. Not only dose Farsight have access to these blueprints, but he now has the manufacturing capabilities to produce these units just like the Tau Empire.

Yeah, I know about the retcon of that...pretty lame way of putting Farsight on equal footing with the rest of the Tau Empire. I think GW could have been a little more creative than that. I would have liked to see the Farsight Enclave with more homegrown variants of the Crisis suit, or versions tailored to the Enclave's unique fighting style/doctrine. Obviously, as I stated before, stuff like that doesn't sell more of the new top dollar kits.

Not sure I agree. "They make their own" is a lot less creative than "they are getting them from someone, but nobody knows who." Especially when you include the lifespan stuff, the new fluff really creates a lot of interesting questions.

Agreed, it looks like the Tau aren't as unified in the Greater Good as we'd have thought. IMO this adds some nice flavour to the previously (more) monolithic Tau.

 agnosto wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.

They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.

Oh bs. There was no trick there, and there was certainly no "1/2 a game." What you paid $6.99 was MORE than a full game with plenty of variety of characters. Get over it.

 cincydooley wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
GW gets into the day 1 DLC game.

They learned a new trick from the people that made the warhammer quest app; $5 for 1/2 a game and then the privilege to spend more money on the stuff that was released at the same time as then app.

Oh bs. There was no trick there, and there was certainly no "1/2 a game." What you paid $6.99 was MORE than a full game with plenty of variety of characters. Get over it.

Retract your claws good madam. Complete game says you; however, it was released with DLC thus the term "day 1 DLC" which as any sane person will tell you is naught but a money grab.

On Topic.
Though I like the idea of these supplements, the pricing and single-source availability are off-putting.

You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.

 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.

Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.

 agnosto wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.

Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.

Except for the fact that they were designing it from the beginning as DLC to make some money before the used market takes the profit out. No one's making anyone buy it, and honestly I've never seen a single piece of "Day 1" DLC that was completely neccissary to play or enjoy the game.

Back on topic:
I can't see a comparison to "Day 1" DLC working as the Iyanden suppliment is completely optional and you can run an Iyanden style list (Yriel Included) with just the main book and it still be awesome. Not to mention the Tau Suppliment is definitely not "Day 1" as the dex dropped in April(?).

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
You say "money grab" I say extra optional characters.

It's a full game, regardless of Day 1 Characters that you can add as options.

Sorry to drag this off topic everyone.

Let's disagree on our definition of "full game" and leave it there. To me, if you're developing the "additions" parallel to the entire game, there's no justifiable reason not to include it. I completely understand adding content later and charging a reasonable fee but same day additional content is just a not so subtle way to try and reach in your pocket.

Except for the fact that they were designing it from the beginning as DLC to make some money before the used market takes the profit out. No one's making anyone buy it, and honestly I've never seen a single piece of "Day 1" DLC that was completely neccissary to play or enjoy the game.

Back on topic:
I can't see a comparison to "Day 1" DLC working as the Iyanden suppliment is completely optional and you can run an Iyanden style list (Yriel Included) with just the main book and it still be awesome. Not to mention the Tau Suppliment is definitely not "Day 1" as the dex dropped in April(?).

We're going to have to disagree; if it was developed as DLC the whole time then why wasn't it part of the game the day it was released...yeah, money grab. Characters and "expansion" are only optional because they weren't included in the original game because they wanted to charge extra for them. It's fine, it's the latest app business trend, there's no reason to defend it like I'm saying it's dirty, I'm not though I don't like it, but let's be honest about what it is.

It can be viewed as Day 1 because it most assuredly was ready in April or do you think they can write something completely from scratch in a couple of months...though I guess they could with all of the rehashing that their writers do.

Is this thread still even remotely about the Farsight codex? Because it will come out months after the Tau Empire release making any discussion of DAY 1 anything derailing to the subject at hand.

I'm surprised that no one has made the comparison to the Chapter Approved articles that gave neat fluff and rules for various SM Chapters/CSM Legions/etc. (back in, 2000-2002-ish?)

I thought those were great (if sometimes not always balanced, but then some codecies aren't balanced either). I have seen many here on Dakka lament the move away from things like that. This new supplement system seems like a step back toward that, though with perhaps more content, but a MUCH steeper price tage (compared to the price of a single issue of WD that had the rules you were looking for).

I'd love to see Chapter Approved return, but this policy of price spikes and limiting new content to expensive add-ons seems to be the new model.

Speaking of that model, I wonder if all the sound and fury about GW's various recent actions will actually signify anything. Will it drive away enough customers to hurt the bottom line? To do so it would have to more than offset the additional revenue generated by price hikes and rationing out content in expensive ways...

-C6

I hope fifth edition codexes get some supplement love, though probably not since they'll be invalidated fairly soon.

 catharsix wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has made the comparison to the Chapter Approved articles that gave neat fluff and rules for various SM Chapters/CSM Legions/etc. (back in, 2000-2002-ish?)

As you said, I think those old enough to remember those articles/lists/compilations would likely remember the price that was so much lower for about the same amount of rules. The only thing we have to go on so far is the Iyanden codex and it's got about as much stuff as the Iyanden part of the old Craftworld codex supplement but at over triple the price for about 1/5 the rules (since the old one had all the craftworlds in one book).

I can't help but think you're twisting this somewhat. You can't value something algorithmically based on your arbitrary variables.

 BryllCream wrote:
I can't help but think you're twisting this somewhat. You can't value something algorithmically based on your arbitrary variables.

What I can't do is make you or anyone else assign the same value as each person values things differently (fluff, rules, presentation like hardcover and full color vs b&w softcover). I absolutely can value it according to my own personal views.

Oh c'mon - Craftworld Eldar may have had 5 times the rules but it was a third of the page count, had colour on only 8 pages (not including the end covers) and was soft back. Those things aren't variables but absolutes, you're paying three times the price for three times the page count in hard back and full colour. What value you assign to the content is ofc up to you.

I would be pretty pleased with just a couple changes like 'no kroot/vespids/(ethereals?)', crisis/stealth suits moved to troops, and a good deal of additions in wargear etc. I'd be happy if, for example, every shas'vre could take onager gauntlets.

I'm very excited for this .... I was planning on doing some urban colour scheme for my Tau.... but they might end up red.

HarryLeChien wrote:
Oh c'mon - Craftworld Eldar may have had 5 times the rules but it was a third of the page count, had colour on only 8 pages (not including the end covers) and was soft back. Those things aren't variables but absolutes, you're paying three times the price for three times the page count in hard back and full colour. What value you assign to the content is ofc up to you.

Yes, and I stated that above. If the Iyanden book for 6e was instead a Craftworld book with 10 pages of rules (since Iyanden only has 2, I'll extrapolate it out), I'd agree that the cost would justify most of the price increase along with the fancy color pages and hard bound cover. Unfortunately, 2 pages of rules is *not* enough to justify the price for me even if it was bound in Unicorn leather and printed in full color ink derived from dodo bird eggs. I buy the books for the rules and that is the "meat" of the meal for me; the fluff and pretty pictures are the garnish and side items. YMMV.