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Frozen Wastes/ kaptajn congoboy- That's exactly why I based my assessment on getting two useable factions for each system, and why I think discounted 2 player boxes are a good thing.

Most of my friends aren't into wargaming, and those that are, are happy enough to poodle around with 40k. They aren't going to drop a wedge on a faction for a new system, so if I want to try a game out, I figure it is on me to put two small factions together, so that I can get them to try it with no fuss. If the system is enjoyable, I have every faith then they will start up their own factions.

Even my non wargaming friends will have a go from time to time if I can provide all the toys - they get very interested when they see a bunch of painted models sitting on my shelf.

I'm just getting into Malifaux, My locan store has a player base, the models look good, and the rules are free.
Total starting cost to me, about £20.
Of course, it won't end there, it never does...

I've also started Urban War, which is a very nice skirmish game with smooth rules and nice models, unfortunately the models are a little hard to get hold of.

In reply to evancinch.
Well I agree most people that are into 40k are not interested in the rules.(Jervis said over 2/3 of all GW customers never actually play a game.)
This is probably because GW is not interested in game play, just '...selling toy soldiers to children....'

But as GW competitors are in the title of the thread, and most of these companies use good rules and engaging game play to drive sales .(Instead of 'B&M stores and the hard sell.')

It may be prudent to get a more objective rating system on rules quality and depth of game play.

@Eggs.
I agree the value for money a 2 player starter set offers is very important in launching a new game system into a group of players.
FoW is a good game with a WWII setting.It is easy to swap the setting for an alternate 1940s one.(Weird War II , Captain America, Hell Boy,etc.)
If you do not like historical war.

@OP

This would make a great article. Or, maybe fold other people's reviews (salad fingers' seem based on your own criteria) into the OP?

It would be great to have a general comparison of starter sets floating around on the web..

I have the FOW open fire starter set, and i must say, its great value for money, and with 2 resonable sized forces included to learn with, and to then build apon is a great bonus. i also like that included in the getting started booklet, is a basicly army list for both alies and germans that you can use to build your army up from, with out having to buy any extra books to start with (looks side ways at WHFB and WH40K). Add in the added bonus of lots of other companys making 15mm models that fit with the game, your on a winner (if you like WWII war games that is)

Arbitorian - I may well draft up an article, adding in what folk have added.
There has been a lot of love for a couple other systems in here, so I may have to check them out too.

There are two forces in the box, that seem fairly well balanced. There are 17 minis in the box, of which, 4 are 'dreadnaught' class, i.e. big minis. Talking of big, they are all pretty big. They seem a lot chunkier than GW models, with only the 2 warcasters seeming in a similar general scale to GW. The Man-o-war troops for example, dwarf a standard Space Marine. There is little in the way of assembly instructions, and there seems to be no logic on how the parts are bagged up. Menoth models are bagged individually for example, while the 5 Man-o-war models are in one big bag.

I would have to agree with the mould lines. If you take a close look at the heavy warjacks and the pour locations for the main torso, it is concave making this part harder to clean up. Also some asymmetry that drives me nuts.

However, as far as games, it has been a great deal of fun to play. Also the bigger infantry models should be treated or considered more like terminators rather than standard infantry. Although the khador troops are much more defensive whereas the Cinerators are Princess Vespa when their armor gets singed.

I'm just about done clearing mold lines off the first jack, and it has been more challenging than what I'm used to with gw stuff. I hope none of the rough bits show up after primer!

I've decided I'm going to compile a general article on different systems, I'm already going to include 40k, fantasy battle, infinity, warmahordes and dust tactics/warfare. I'd like to include malifaux, fow, x wing and any others anyone thinks might be suitable, but I haven't started with them, so if anyone has an opinion or favourite, please share.

I'm looking from the viewpoint of getting two factions to get started, not so much about game mechanics. More like initial purchases required, general aesthetics, quality of models, value for money etc. though if there is a particularly unusual mechanic, such as the card system in malifaux, please feel free to mention it.

I want to make it as balanced as possible, so the more opinion, the better. I'll do a second article on actual rule sets, game depth and balance at a later date.

To the op - which starter set would you recommend for someone wanting a large battle with solid gameplay?

To be honest, I wouldn't be comfortable recommending anything based on gameplay yet - I haven't had time to get to grips with any of them yet - I'm still at the assembling and priming stage! I've had a few games of dust tactics already, and it seems pretty simple and easy to get into. It's also well balanced, and you get a decent wedge of minis to get you started.

Truth be told though, if its a high model count you're after, both 40k and whfb have much higher number of minis than any of the other starters. Not sure if you already play either of those. The gameplay is what they call 'beer and pretzels' in that some of the rules and mechanics are down to randomness. That's not to say it doesn't have depth. Personally, I wouldn't play either competitively though; there is too much 'newest army is best' syndrome going on. Other makers seem to expand the factions in a more balanced way.

Ask me again in 6 months. Sorry I can't be more help.

I've been playing various model count games and have come to the conclusion that if you want a 40k level model count with individually based models, 40k is the only product that offers both miniatures and rules by the same producer with that model count and not multiple figures per stand.

Now if you're willing to get miniatures you like from one seller and rules from another source (be it commercial or free) you have lots of great options. Ones worth trying out include:

Fast And Dirty 4 - a great set of rules where squads fight other squads but the miniatures are still individually based. It's a bit of a toolkit approach but most experienced wargamers should have no trouble. FREE
http://www.freewebs.com/weaselfierce/

FUBAR - A one page set of rules that works and is fast enough to handle lots of models. It will also probably take some work setting up the forces and scenarios. FREE
http://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/fubar-one-page-sfmodern-rules/

SuperSystem - A super hero miniature game with a great building system that lets you build pretty much anything (as super heroes have fought with and against pretty much everything). It handles units of mooks/grunts as well as individuals but again, you'll have to build your forces using the construction rules. 50 or so grunts a side and a hero or two will take about three hours to play, longer until you're familiar with the system. NOT FREE
http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=822

Company Commander - A 20th century to near future skirmish game that is very much a mind bender. It's not rules heavy, but It's based on some very innovative ideas and punishes bad tactical play. Armed forces members I've played the game with find it to be too much like real modern combat to the point of it being potentially frustrating if you're just looking to move some guys around and make pew pew sounds. Like when all your guys are pinned down because you just rushed them forward and you forgot to leave a reserve do properly set up your fire lanes. This one requires rethinking what you know about miniature wargaming and play can leave you intellectually exhausted. FREE in a yahoo group
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Company_Commander/

I don't think any of these suggestions are going to be appropriate for someone wanting an already ready to go game that also happens to match the 40k forces. They're going to require some set up work and some taking ownership of your hobby.

Cheers for that, that is useful info.

 BryllCream wrote:
To the op - which starter set would you recommend for someone wanting a large battle with solid gameplay?

what style of game are you after? Fantasy, sci-fi, historical, ect,ect
Depending on what your after will dictate any surgestions for a starter set.

 fynn wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
To the op - which starter set would you recommend for someone wanting a large battle with solid gameplay?

what style of game are you after? Fantasy, sci-fi, historical, ect,ect
Depending on what your after will dictate any surgestions for a starter set.

It's a trap. He'd probably come back with something like "but muh fiction"

Oh absolutely, he's attempting to troll by implying that 40k is the only mass-battle system with 'solid gameplay'.

 Pacific wrote:
Oh absolutely, he's attempting to troll by implying that 40k is the only mass-battle system with 'solid gameplay'.

Is he really wrong though?

Off the top of my head for "mass-battle systems" for 28mm I can only think of Warpath and 40k.
I am sure there are more rule sets, but they do not necessarily have miniature support.

For sci-fi perhaps no, although 'I think just 40k fills that criteria' would be a less troll-ish way of putting it.

There are loads of excellent mass battle rule sets out there.

HOWEVER, most large scale battle games tend to use minatures in scale with the size of the game.(So they fit on a standard 6x4 table without looking cramped. )

Eg games similar in scale to 40k are usually in 15 to 20mm.
Larger scale games use 10mm down to tiny 2mm minatures ,often with multiple minatures per base.

There is a reason 40k is the only massed battle system using 28mm heroic minatures .It is because GW plc is in the buisness of selling toy soldiers.
And every edition they want to up the model count, and increase the size and cost of a full army.

I would say that Epic Armageddon delivers much better game play for massed battles in the 40k universe.(With much better game balance and far less complicated rules.)

I was a big fan of epic back in the day. I still have some parts of my Titan legion, though I sold my squats on fleabay for a fortune.

Eggs.
If it was Epic Space Marine you used to play, it lives on under the fan supported NetEpic banner.(Free to download the same as Epic Armageddon if you are interested,)

For what it's worth, Infinity is the cheapest of the games you listed as far as expansion is concerned.
That said, the presence of a starter kit is obviously lacking.

I remember when the FLGS owner ordered a demo kit for Infinity after I told him about it. The rules didn't really appeal to him, so he ended up giving me the demo box. It contained 4 PanO (Sikh, Orc, two Fusileers) and 4 Ariadna (Veteran Kazak, Chasseurs, 2 Line Kazaks) models, fitting a list of 100 points each. Was actually a pretty solid box, and would make for a great starter kit if they could include a mini rulebook and a few D20. Especially if they could keep the price below $40.

The current faction-based starter boxes that they have aren't particularly good. They're only worth buying if you want all the models in the set, really.

It's true that most of the rest of the larger wargaming hobby realized that once you start representing a company or more per side, it's best to reduce the figure scale. It's pretty much only GW and Mantic that are trying to push 100-200 models per side sci-fi games in 28mm. Everyone else starts considering 6mm, 10mm and 15mm pretty quickly as it just makes sense.

There's even something to be said for 3mm:

 fynn wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
To the op - which starter set would you recommend for someone wanting a large battle with solid gameplay?

what style of game are you after? Fantasy, sci-fi, historical, ect,ect
Depending on what your after will dictate any surgestions for a starter set.

I don't mind too much about genre. I suppose I'd prefer sci fi or fantasy, but I would be averse to historical if the gameplay was solid enough.

And scale doesn't concern me too much. I already have my pretties after all

The cheapest is Malifaux and I dont play it. You can get a starter from $29 to $40.

I notice that competitors are loosing buyers by not offering vehicles alternatives to GW, specially APC and tanks in 28mm scale. The cheapest tanks I have seen is Dust Warfare and scale models for $20

 Capt. Camping wrote:
The cheapest is Malifaux and I dont play it. You can get a starter from $29 to $40.

I notice that competitors are loosing buyers by not offering vehicles alternatives to GW, specially APC and tanks in 28mm scale. The cheapest tanks I have seen is Dust Warfare and scale models for $20

Except that to offer vehicle alternatives to GW, they would have to offer games that need rules for vehicles.

For example the guys at Mantic forums they want more vehicles for Warpath since 1.0 and 2.0 at good prices.

Eldercaveman wrote:
Can I suggest you try Dreadball, Dreadball fever has recently hit my gaming club, and it would be really interesting to here your thoughts on that system.

I really do not much like Dreadball.... But at at least one of my games I am the only one that doesn't.

So, I am going to have to say that they are all wrong it is a good game, possibly a great game, but not for me.

It has replaced Bloodbowl in at least one local campaign.

Also... a team is something that you would only need to buy once - no real need to add much more to the cost once you have it.

One other thing - because the ball drops back in the middle as soon as the goal is scored you can find your team way out of position if you concentrated too much on scoring.

Scores are from the middle to either side so if one side has a score of 3 then the other side has a score of 0. If that team gets four points then the score will be 1 for them, and 0 for the other side....

It is a very fast game. I just wish that I liked it. (And I do like it better than Bloodbowl.)

The Auld Grump

Lanrak wrote:
There are loads of excellent mass battle rule sets out there.

HOWEVER, most large scale battle games tend to use minatures in scale with the size of the game.(So they fit on a standard 6x4 table without looking cramped. )

Eg games similar in scale to 40k are usually in 15 to 20mm.
Larger scale games use 10mm down to tiny 2mm minatures ,often with multiple minatures per base.

There is a reason 40k is the only massed battle system using 28mm heroic minatures .It is because GW plc is in the buisness of selling toy soldiers.
And every edition they want to up the model count, and increase the size and cost of a full army.

I would say that Epic Armageddon delivers much better game play for massed battles in the 40k universe.(With much better game balance and far less complicated rules.)

Very much this. While I'm certainly not GW's biggest fan, I will say that some of the complaints about price are based in situations that are more the fault of the gamer than the Games Workshop - just because they want you to play 1850pts-to-Apocalypse level games in no way means you have to(tournament gamers excepted of course, since they don't get to choose the size of their games); all of my existing and planned army lists top out at 1500pts, and it's entirely possible to build fun, fluffy, or competitive forces at that level and below. I'd much rather play Epic than any large game of 40K(and I'm super-sad I sold off my armies years ago and never had a chance to buy new ones before GW squatted the SGs).

So what is the average model count for Dust Tactics? How long does a game last, and how long does gameplay setup take?

I only played Dust once and saw another game of 150 points (one leader, two squads and a mech). It takes like one hour, but we did not know the rules very well so it could be faster. I find the rules less complex than 40k or fantasy and it seems Andy Chambers tried to add some balance to the game.

One good thing about Dust is the price/quantity/quality not seen is any other game. Vehicles are big with great detail and good prices. I have not seen any Dust mini looking ugly to the eye in design. Its just like Paolo Parente supervised all of them.