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 gmaleron wrote:
Taking a Leman Russ Battle Tank and giving it the option for shells, if a Hammerhead can have submunition rounds why cant a Leman Russ have Vanquisher shells and Standard Battle Cannon shells, would make perfect sense and fit the fluff.

Well maybe an LRBT shouldn't get Vanquisher shells (since the main reason for the vanquisher's penetration is its long gun), but up the vanquisher should be able to take high explosive shells as an upgrade.

The only Rule I would Change is Drop Pods and Mysetic Spores come in on reserve instead of half come in turn 1. Otherwise, I would allow all reserves, the chance to activate Turn 1.

Pods should be considered Deep Striking in every respect. Meaning if it gets destroyed, the unit inside is destroyed along with it.

 Valkyrie wrote:

sing your life wrote:
Pick warlord traits instead of rolling for them.

Maybe not just picking the traits, but something along those lines. How about you roll for the Trait, and then choose one of the three tables, giving you a selection between 3 of them?

This is how my club has been playing warlord traits for almost 8 months now. Roll 1 die. You get to select a trait from that number across all three tables. This system almost entirely eliminates the possibility of getting a totally useless trait.

Give my Hydras Interceptor.

let them shoot at ground targets normally and let them be a threat to aircraft, as opposed to a flying coming on the board and 1 shotting the poor hydra.

Tau are not allowed in friendly or tournament play unless against other tau

 Sleg wrote:
The only Rule I would Change is Drop Pods and Mysetic Spores come in on reserve instead of half come in turn 1. Otherwise, I would allow all reserves, the chance to activate Turn 1.

Pods should be considered Deep Striking in every respect. Meaning if it gets destroyed, the unit inside is destroyed along with it.

If the Pod is destroyed, so is the unit. That wouldn't be a change.

SO rules changes I would like

1.) WS chart change as has been mentioned perhaps just have it mirror the S vs T chart. Right now high WS is Largely meaningless.

2.) Make snapshots occur at say BS -4 (or 3 or something) to a minimum of 1. That way my BS 8 super sniper can actually hit better in all cases than a BS 2 Ork. The Reward for Super high BS is really not all that great.

I'd like to see the old fleet back or something that gives orks a bit of a chance to use an effective Waaagh. And do something about charges, not sure what though. Assault from outflank.
The AP modifier sounds similar to the idea in WHFB where str is the mod, I think it would work. But on the whole it just needs a couple of ways to balance shooting and cc

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

I completely agree.

Fear? no thanks don't think I'll bother
Being swept? No, again I don't think I'll bother.
Having to test to regroup? erm nope, don't like the sound of that so I won't bother
My csm warlord rolled fear on his warlord trait while fighting SM? - No thanks, you'll just have to accept it does nothing in this game...

I would love to bring back, being able to assault from reserve. Or just anything to make it more balanced to assault than just a shooty edition.

The 1 rule i would like changed is the not being able to assault 1st turn for using a scout move... My flesh hounds want first turn assaults!

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

It's largely better than fearless and given out to half the armies in the game for free.

 Exergy wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

It's largely better than fearless and given out to half the armies in the game for free.

It would be nice if only the sergeant provide that buff, at least that way precision shots would make a bit more sense.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

I completely agree.

Fear? no thanks don't think I'll bother
Being swept? No, again I don't think I'll bother.
Having to test to regroup? erm nope, don't like the sound of that so I won't bother
My csm warlord rolled fear on his warlord trait while fighting SM? - No thanks, you'll just have to accept it does nothing in this game...

oh and don't forget terrify! Fear me! blarghalblargh. Space Marines look at it and laugh. Sorry we aren't fearless! *puffs out chest*

Actually I had a long list but, if anything, I'd like this to be changed entirely. ATSKNF simply invalidates too many rules.

Breng77 wrote:
SO rules changes I would like

1.) WS chart change as has been mentioned perhaps just have it mirror the S vs T chart. Right now high WS is Largely meaningless.

2.) Make snapshots occur at say BS -4 (or 3 or something) to a minimum of 1. That way my BS 8 super sniper can actually hit better in all cases than a BS 2 Ork. The Reward for Super high BS is really not all that great.

Oh the second one is a hard one. BS-4 or 3 still causes a problem. The super elite marines shoot at the same capability as an ork xD. Oh and remove overwatch. How the feth are orks some of the best at overwatch in the game!? xD (and how do armies overwatch anyways O.o yeah yeah. They don't stand idly by and wait for the enemy to reach them. ell my daemons of super agility don't dodge bullets, they stands still letting the enemy hit the first guy for each unit, and the enemy gets a turn of volley fire at my guardsman before they shoot back. Oh and apparently my MC moves at the same speed as pretty much all of my other units. Reallly? Oh and marines and guardsman move at the same pace). But yeah, never understood how the most elite of shooters and the novice shoot at BS1 either way

AlmightyWalrus - Killing the unit inside wasn't the change. The secondary change was that it reacts like all units deep striking - instead of bouncing back to it's starting point it would have to roll on the Mishap table.

But the most important change is that it can't take half its numbers to come in on the 1st turn. Either No Unit can arrive 1st from reserve or all reserve units would have the same chance to arrive 1st.

I would change the building and ruin rules to make them simpler, right now that section of the rules is just a black hole. Make buildings basically vehicles (use the same chart, just give them more hull points and something different for immobilized), and get rid of the special rules about moving around in ruins (just treat them as difficult terrain).

If I can have another one: Get rid of challenges. They slow the game down too much, and kind of clunky. I haven't really seen them have any other effect on an assault other than to slow down an inevitable result.

 Sleg wrote:
AlmightyWalrus - Killing the unit inside wasn't the change. The secondary change was that it reacts like all units deep striking - instead of bouncing back to it's starting point it would have to roll on the Mishap table.

But the most important change is that it can't take half its numbers to come in on the 1st turn. Either No Unit can arrive 1st from reserve or all reserve units would have the same chance to arrive 1st.

So you'd completely kill off Drop Pod armies? Why?

My single rule change would be to stop using WHFB rules , and use Epic rules instead.
Then the 40k game makes much more sense!

I think my change would be to how Nightscythes allow Troops to deploy from them, with much more restrictions.

Aside from that, all of these I've seen sound amazing:
1.) Fortification deployment and rules cleanup
2.) ATSKNF
3.) Allies Tax
4.) Cost of Skyfire units

 StarTrotter wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

Breng77 wrote:
SO rules changes I would like

1.) WS chart change as has been mentioned perhaps just have it mirror the S vs T chart. Right now high WS is Largely meaningless.

2.) Make snapshots occur at say BS -4 (or 3 or something) to a minimum of 1. That way my BS 8 super sniper can actually hit better in all cases than a BS 2 Ork. The Reward for Super high BS is really not all that great.

Oh the second one is a hard one. BS-4 or 3 still causes a problem. The super elite marines shoot at the same capability as an ork xD. Oh and remove overwatch. How the feth are orks some of the best at overwatch in the game!? xD (and how do armies overwatch anyways O.o yeah yeah. They don't stand idly by and wait for the enemy to reach them. ell my daemons of super agility don't dodge bullets, they stands still letting the enemy hit the first guy for each unit, and the enemy gets a turn of volley fire at my guardsman before they shoot back. Oh and apparently my MC moves at the same speed as pretty much all of my other units. Reallly? Oh and marines and guardsman move at the same pace). But yeah, never understood how the most elite of shooters and the novice shoot at BS1 either way

My other solution was something like BS-3 but if that would take you Below 1 you need to re-roll successful hits.

if you really wanted differentiation I guess you could do BS -4, and if you would be Below BS1 then you re-roll successful to hit rolls but the re-rolled sucesses hit on your regular BS. SO BS 4 Hits on 6s then re-rolls any 6s looking for 3s, but BS 2 hits on 6s and re-rolls those 6s looking for 5s. Something like this would really be the only way to truely balance snapshoting.

Really though I don't have as much of an issue with Orks and Marines overwatching the same as I do with say a Vindicare not being able to hit flyers any better than a standard marine. IT was more to be a buff to really high BS rather than helping lower BS armies.

My single rule change?
All heavy weapons gain interceptor USR, but fired as snap shots.

 insaniak wrote:
I would allow blast and template weapons to snap fire. I miss my plasma canon dreadnought, but right now the assault cannon is just to much of a better option due to the snap fire rules. Taking blast weapons on vehicles is just not the best option in this edition.

But...the only time the Dreadnought would be firing snap shots with blasts is at flyers (which cannot be affected), overwatch (which is something they couldn't do in 4th or 5th anyway since it didn't exist) or Crew Shaken/Stunned in which case it wouldn't have been able to fire them in 5th either.

Breng77 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

Breng77 wrote:
SO rules changes I would like

1.) WS chart change as has been mentioned perhaps just have it mirror the S vs T chart. Right now high WS is Largely meaningless.

2.) Make snapshots occur at say BS -4 (or 3 or something) to a minimum of 1. That way my BS 8 super sniper can actually hit better in all cases than a BS 2 Ork. The Reward for Super high BS is really not all that great.

Oh the second one is a hard one. BS-4 or 3 still causes a problem. The super elite marines shoot at the same capability as an ork xD. Oh and remove overwatch. How the feth are orks some of the best at overwatch in the game!? xD (and how do armies overwatch anyways O.o yeah yeah. They don't stand idly by and wait for the enemy to reach them. ell my daemons of super agility don't dodge bullets, they stands still letting the enemy hit the first guy for each unit, and the enemy gets a turn of volley fire at my guardsman before they shoot back. Oh and apparently my MC moves at the same speed as pretty much all of my other units. Reallly? Oh and marines and guardsman move at the same pace). But yeah, never understood how the most elite of shooters and the novice shoot at BS1 either way

My other solution was something like BS-3 but if that would take you Below 1 you need to re-roll successful hits.

if you really wanted differentiation I guess you could do BS -4, and if you would be Below BS1 then you re-roll successful to hit rolls but the re-rolled sucesses hit on your regular BS. SO BS 4 Hits on 6s then re-rolls any 6s looking for 3s, but BS 2 hits on 6s and re-rolls those 6s looking for 5s. Something like this would really be the only way to truely balance snapshoting.

Really though I don't have as much of an issue with Orks and Marines overwatching the same as I do with say a Vindicare not being able to hit flyers any better than a standard marine. IT was more to be a buff to really high BS rather than helping lower BS armies.

Ah understandable. I simply felt it might be best to expand it. As a rule itself, it really wouldn't benefit many units. And really, how is it that Marines that are a BS of 4 fire the same (and over all worse) than orks? Especially since, in reality, a BS of 4 is supposed to be high whilst a bs of 2 is supposed to be low (and bs3 is supposed to be average). I understand your notion. It's a tough one in the end (plus I'm leaning against cause I prefer overwatch to not get better. I already have enough games against tau where an assault has been denied)

I just want my Burning Chariot to be able to move and shoot.

 Happyjew wrote:

But...the only time the Dreadnought would be firing snap shots with blasts is at flyers (which cannot be affected), overwatch (which is something they couldn't do in 4th or 5th anyway since it didn't exist) or Crew Shaken/Stunned in which case it wouldn't have been able to fire them in 5th either.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. In 5th edition, you also couldn't fire assault cannons in those situations. It was a more level playing field, although even with 5th's rules the plasma cannon suffered due to blasts being so unreliable.

The fact that the assault cannon and autocannons gained the ability to fire at fliers, overwatch and to fire when stunned/shaken while the plasma cannon didn't (with no change in points costs) relegated the dread's plasma cannon to the 'meh' pile in 6th.

Toxium wrote:
I just want my Burning Chariot to be able to move and shoot.

Agreed

 StarTrotter wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I think ATSKNF should be changed entirely. It provides too many positive leadership buffs that really limits leadership issues to units besides loyal marines.

Breng77 wrote:
SO rules changes I would like

1.) WS chart change as has been mentioned perhaps just have it mirror the S vs T chart. Right now high WS is Largely meaningless.

2.) Make snapshots occur at say BS -4 (or 3 or something) to a minimum of 1. That way my BS 8 super sniper can actually hit better in all cases than a BS 2 Ork. The Reward for Super high BS is really not all that great.

Oh the second one is a hard one. BS-4 or 3 still causes a problem. The super elite marines shoot at the same capability as an ork xD. Oh and remove overwatch. How the feth are orks some of the best at overwatch in the game!? xD (and how do armies overwatch anyways O.o yeah yeah. They don't stand idly by and wait for the enemy to reach them. ell my daemons of super agility don't dodge bullets, they stands still letting the enemy hit the first guy for each unit, and the enemy gets a turn of volley fire at my guardsman before they shoot back. Oh and apparently my MC moves at the same speed as pretty much all of my other units. Reallly? Oh and marines and guardsman move at the same pace). But yeah, never understood how the most elite of shooters and the novice shoot at BS1 either way

My other solution was something like BS-3 but if that would take you Below 1 you need to re-roll successful hits.

if you really wanted differentiation I guess you could do BS -4, and if you would be Below BS1 then you re-roll successful to hit rolls but the re-rolled sucesses hit on your regular BS. SO BS 4 Hits on 6s then re-rolls any 6s looking for 3s, but BS 2 hits on 6s and re-rolls those 6s looking for 5s. Something like this would really be the only way to truely balance snapshoting.

Really though I don't have as much of an issue with Orks and Marines overwatching the same as I do with say a Vindicare not being able to hit flyers any better than a standard marine. IT was more to be a buff to really high BS rather than helping lower BS armies.

Ah understandable. I simply felt it might be best to expand it. As a rule itself, it really wouldn't benefit many units. And really, how is it that Marines that are a BS of 4 fire the same (and over all worse) than orks? Especially since, in reality, a BS of 4 is supposed to be high whilst a bs of 2 is supposed to be low (and bs3 is supposed to be average). I understand your notion. It's a tough one in the end (plus I'm leaning against cause I prefer overwatch to not get better. I already have enough games against tau where an assault has been denied)

Actually if you went with my last solution BS -4 with re-rolls, overwatch in general gets worse. A Marine would only hit 1/9 times an Ork 1/18. SO while Tau could use marker lights to boost up their BS during overwatch chances are good that it would only get back up to 1/6 hits. With a -4 Modifier, it would take them 2 Markers just to get back to standard BS1, and 4 Marker hits to get back to BS3, now it just takes them 2 to get to BS3.

Think the massive multi-quote went wrong there at some point guys - I didn't say anything in it.... I'm getting StarTrotters quote attributed to me

 insaniak wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

But...the only time the Dreadnought would be firing snap shots with blasts is at flyers (which cannot be affected), overwatch (which is something they couldn't do in 4th or 5th anyway since it didn't exist) or Crew Shaken/Stunned in which case it wouldn't have been able to fire them in 5th either.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. In 5th edition, you also couldn't fire assault cannons in those situations. It was a more level playing field, although even with 5th's rules the plasma cannon suffered due to blasts being so unreliable.

The fact that the assault cannon and autocannons gained the ability to fire at fliers, overwatch and to fire when stunned/shaken while the plasma cannon didn't (with no change in points costs) relegated the dread's plasma cannon to the 'meh' pile in 6th.

So its not a matter of Blasts getting worse, it is a matter of other things getting better. Gotcha.

Turn my hammerhead rule into one I heard online: draw a straight line from the tank to a table edge. After D6-BS scatter at first target, resolve hit. If it glances or pens a tank, resolve shot against next target on the line at -1 strength. Continue against all models along drawn line until a non-glance/pen is rolled, or it hits a piece of something that can't be shot through. When hitting infantry, it hits all models with their base under a tape measure along the drawn line (width of hammerhead gun). No strength reduction in shot when going through infantry.

Either that or BS4 firewarriors....I can't stand being outshot by eldar