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I am pretty sure that this game is not trying to follow in PS2's method of F2P.

In PS2 players do not have to pay at all to play the game and to use all of ifs features, but it helps a lot to pay for the premium currency and buy weapons and gear that way. That is how the developers make money from the game.

In Eternal Crusade from what they have said, the game is basically going to be like Guild Wars 2 in that you will pay one time only for the game and you will have the content made available to you forever.
What this means is that Behavior is making their money from the game from the initial purchase, not from constant micro-transactions that some players will use to "play to win".
This means that the developers for Eternal Crusade will not have to make the mechanics of the game in such a way that it will push people to buy premium weapons and such ( example: making it that you have to grind for every unlock )
as they have made their income at the initial sale. The only thing that you can pay for after that is just cosmetic different executions, both of which don't affect the average players fun.

This way of doing things is very good as I have played many F2P games such as PS2 and the fun really is reduced by the massive amount of time it takes to get upgrades and there is always a temptation to spend money on the game,
which I know from past experience is a slippery slope.

The fact that Ork Boyz are free to play does not mean that the entire game is to be labelled as a free-to-play game, it is a premium service just like Guild Wars 2; meaning you have to pay to get the full package.
Frankly I am happy that it is this way as it gives players more room to enjoy the game without having to worry about pay-to-win players advancing way faster than ordinary players or systems being put in place to make it more appealing to
buy premium currency. Those are the things that would ruin the game for me frankly and I am very happy that Behavior is taking the game in the direction that they are.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm actually comparing it to SWTOR, WHO, AOC rather than WoW, but if you want to go with WoW go for it.

And you fail at your point right off the bat. SWTOR limits the races you can pick pretty heavily actually. So what was you're point again?

Not sure how I feel about having to pay to play as certain species...
On the one hand it'd be not so bad since I'm not the kind who experiments with different classes and races. On the other hand if I ever fancied just messing around as a different race I wouldn't be able to do so without buying it...

 purplefood wrote:
Not sure how I feel about having to pay to play as certain species...
On the one hand it'd be not so bad since I'm not the kind who experiments with different classes and races. On the other hand if I ever fancied just messing around as a different race I wouldn't be able to do so without buying it...

I don't think that's how it works. As I understand it, that one initial payment unlocks you all of the races.

Why do you people theorycraft so much, while all you need to do is read Miguels and Devs team posts.
And theorycrafting while not even taking time to read some basics about the game.

So in short:

For i suppose 60$ - (usual AAA game price)
- Full game
- All playable races
- no part of the game is locked
- you can switch to other race, but there is cooldown, so people wouldn't switch to whatever race is winning currently, or to spy
- Clossest game with similar policy is "Guild wars 2" - look it up for how it works (before commenting on the subject)
-Can buy cosmetics trough microtransactions


Free to play version:

- only playable as Ork boy
- all areas of the game open to explore
- can use whole "Ork boy" arsenal
- cannot compete for Race leader position
-can buy cosmetics and Races trough microtransaction (migh be even cheaper than buying the whole game, if you wanna play only Orks or Eldar, for perhaps 15$ you get whole game and the race you want to play, 15$ for AAA game, that's just cheap)


So i really don't see what's all the fuss about, lot's of people demand stuff from Behavior, but are not willing to pay, they just think they are entitled to get it all for free.
If you enjoy the game, don't you think you should give something in return?


P.S.
and for all the Paratroopers dropping with doom and gloom questions in topic, at least take some time and read some basic game info, before you ask question that make no sense or have been answered multiple times.

it's simple: b2p+aestetic or trial limited to ork boyz and unloclable content.

the game is a: MMOTPS, space marine+planetside2+borderland 2.

 zmalamuth wrote:
Why do you people theorycraft so much, while all you need to do is read Miguels and Devs team posts.
And theorycrafting while not even taking time to read some basics about the game.

So in short:

For i suppose 60$ - (usual AAA game price)
- Full game
- All playable races
- no part of the game is locked
- you can switch to other race, but there is cooldown, so people wouldn't switch to whatever race is winning currently, or to spy
- Clossest game with similar policy is "Guild wars 2" - look it up for how it works (before commenting on the subject)
-Can buy cosmetics trough microtransactions


Free to play version:

- only playable as Ork boy
- all areas of the game open to explore
- can use whole "Ork boy" arsenal
- cannot compete for Race leader position
-can buy cosmetics and Races trough microtransaction (migh be even cheaper than buying the whole game, if you wanna play only Orks or Eldar, for perhaps 15$ you get whole game and the race you want to play, 15$ for AAA game, that's just cheap)


So i really don't see what's all the fuss about, lot's of people demand stuff from Behavior, but are not willing to pay, they just think they are entitled to get it all for free.
If you enjoy the game, don't you think you should give something in return?


P.S.
and for all the Paratroopers dropping with doom and gloom questions in topic, at least take some time and read some basic game info, before you ask question that make no sense or have been answered multiple times.

Exalted for actually summing it up very well.

I'd be all for paying sub $20 for one race.

grigdusher wrote:
it's simple: b2p+aestetic or trial limited to ork boyz and unloclable content.

the game is a: MMOTPS, space marine+planetside2+borderland 2.

I still don't understand what the hell borderlands has to do with this..?

 Soladrin wrote:

grigdusher wrote:
it's simple: b2p+aestetic or trial limited to ork boyz and unloclable content.

the game is a: MMOTPS, space marine+planetside2+borderland 2.

I still don't understand what the hell borderlands has to do with this..?

Borderlands 2 - think they mentioned it for the weapons customization mostly

Space marine - "feel of the melee combat"

Planetside 2 - general idea how the game will look/feel


I'll check somewhere on MMORPG a dev explained what are they looking at from each game

 zmalamuth wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

grigdusher wrote:
it's simple: b2p+aestetic or trial limited to ork boyz and unloclable content.

the game is a: MMOTPS, space marine+planetside2+borderland 2.

I still don't understand what the hell borderlands has to do with this..?

Borderlands 2 - think they mentioned it for the weapons customization mostly

There is no "weapons customization" in Borderlands 2.

Weapons are randomly generated by the game, with randomly generated attributes and a set "cost" for those attributes based upon item level and item rarity.
That even includes unique named weapons, which you can get an idea of how the item budget is spent by looking at the item prefix.

Just to be sure so I dont create false hope, we arent going to see anything at Gamescom right?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 zmalamuth wrote:

 Soladrin wrote:

grigdusher wrote:
it's simple: b2p+aestetic or trial limited to ork boyz and unloclable content.

the game is a: MMOTPS, space marine+planetside2+borderland 2.

I still don't understand what the hell borderlands has to do with this..?

Borderlands 2 - think they mentioned it for the weapons customization mostly

There is no "weapons customization" in Borderlands 2.

Weapons are randomly generated by the game, with randomly generated attributes and a set "cost" for those attributes based upon item level and item rarity.
That even includes unique named weapons, which you can get an idea of how the item budget is spent by looking at the item prefix.

I messed something up then, (still don't have time to try borderlands 2).
Checked some MMORPG topics, they are looking into Borderlands as a whole gameplay, CO-op, TTK (time to kill) and some other stuff, found only few snipets, can't find the exact answer.

Makes no sense, borderlands has nothing in common with the concept of this game... And borderlands isn't that great for straight up gameplay anyway IMO...

I think the point they are trying to get across with weapon customization from Borderlands 2 is that the same level of customization will be available in Eternal Crusade, not randomly generated, but made by the players. So, if the user could find 2000 types of shotguns in Borderlands 2, in EC they can customize up to having 2000 types of shotguns.
I admit that with what little information we have about the game it baffles me when they say it contains elements from BL 2. Except for what I wrote earlier, the only thing I can think of is the talent trees but applied to different weapons instead of the classes, like BL 2 had.

 Vuiet wrote:
I think the point they are trying to get across with weapon customization from Borderlands 2 is that the same level of customization will be available in Eternal Crusade, not randomly generated, but made by the players. So, if the user could find 2000 types of shotguns in Borderlands 2, in EC they can customize up to having 2000 types of shotguns.
I admit that with what little information we have about the game it baffles me when they say it contains elements from BL 2. Except for what I wrote earlier, the only thing I can think of is the talent trees but applied to different weapons instead of the classes, like BL 2 had.

The thing is you did not find "2000 types of shotguns in Borderlands 2".

To play off the shotgun example, players found a small amount (manufacturers are Jakobs, Torgue, Hyperion, and Bandit for shotguns). Each manufacturer has a unique quality (Jakobs fires as fast as you pull the trigger with high damage and low capacity, Hyperion guns start off target but get more accurate as you fire, and Torgue fires explosive rounds) for their weapons but the actual qualities of the weapons do not really change--exception to the rule is Assault Rifles, where they have different "barrels" that would alter the firing qualities (ex: the 'minigun' barrel gives an increased fire rate but lower accuracy and faster ammo consumption).

So either the devs did not really play the games and just picked random examples or they have a very confused idea as to what they actually want to do with their game.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vuiet wrote:
I think the point they are trying to get across with weapon customization from Borderlands 2 is that the same level of customization will be available in Eternal Crusade, not randomly generated, but made by the players. So, if the user could find 2000 types of shotguns in Borderlands 2, in EC they can customize up to having 2000 types of shotguns.
I admit that with what little information we have about the game it baffles me when they say it contains elements from BL 2. Except for what I wrote earlier, the only thing I can think of is the talent trees but applied to different weapons instead of the classes, like BL 2 had.

The thing is you did not find "2000 types of shotguns in Borderlands 2".

To play off the shotgun example, players found a small amount (manufacturers are Jakobs, Torgue, Hyperion, and Bandit for shotguns). Each manufacturer has a unique quality (Jakobs fires as fast as you pull the trigger with high damage and low capacity, Hyperion guns start off target but get more accurate as you fire, and Torgue fires explosive rounds) for their weapons but the actual qualities of the weapons do not really change--exception to the rule is Assault Rifles, where they have different "barrels" that would alter the firing qualities (ex: the 'minigun' barrel gives an increased fire rate but lower accuracy and faster ammo consumption).

So either the devs did not really play the games and just picked random examples or they have a very confused idea as to what they actually want to do with their game.

The thing is we discussed this like a month ago, when they announced the game, and sent first newsletter,
Miguel wrote that the devs have to play :
- Space Marine
- Borderlands 2
- Planetside 2
- "Mount and Blade" i think was also on that list, (or was it mentioned by one of the devs)

and both Miguel and Devs explained it in their posts why those games matter, and i really don't have time to dig trough older posts to find the answer.

Perhaps ask Miguel if he can answer it again.

P.S.
Perhaps look at Reddit AMA, there is a list with all the questions from AMA, and also from what devs answered directly on reddit. so the answer is there somewhere, if you interested, go check it a bit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eternalcrusade/

http://www.scribd.com/doc/152029900/Eternal-Crusade-AMA

and even the guys from "Vigila Morthis" posted the answers on theirs web:
http://www.battle-brothers.net/

so make an effort, and look it up

You have time to post three links, yet none to use ctrl-F on Scribd?

A.)

Custom emotes- you mean like /emote 'cackles wickedly at you'? Since thecooperative experience is so important to us, it's very important to have a wellfunctioning chat system. We're not a classic MMORPG, we're a third-personshooter, like Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, or Planetside and Borderlands-so we'll be working hard to get a chat system that supports that experience well.

There are 5 instances of "Borderlands" being in the Scribd document of the Eternal Crusade AMA.
They all amount to that statement, if worded slightly different.

It really does seem more and more like they picked a group of names aside from Space Marine and called it a day.

 Kanluwen wrote:

*snip of everything*

Haters gonna hate.

I've watched all the interviews and read all the info available, but forgot some details. Meh, we'll just have to wait and see.

For the whole borderlands thing i remember hearing in one of there live streams that They were using it as and example for like how tough your guys were.

They said they didn't want people to die as fast in planetside 2, but not be as tough as player and enemies in high level borderlands, they were aiming for some were in between.

Soo like you could take more the 5 bullets before dying like in planet side but less the 200+ like in borderlands

here i come to save the day!

*: The four games Eternal Crusade devs must play:

· Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine

· Planetside 2

· Borderlands

· Mount & Blade: Warband

a quote from Brent Ellison on mmorpg.com 6/26/13 http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/954/view/forums/thread/387481/page/5:

brentellison
When it comes to all of these games, keep in mind that the real question for us is not "What can we take from this?" so much as "Why is this part of the game successful?" Understanding that lets us better develop mechanics that work best for our own game.

Mount & Blade Warband is a fully system-driven wargame where the player is an individual who explores the world and takes part in the actual battles. But there's also a great mod called Napoleonic Warfare. It's not for everyone (you have to reload for ~10 seconds between every shot), but the siege battles in it support up to 250+ players and the pacing and flow of these matches are unlike just about anything else out there - you really feel like a soldier in a war.

Borderlands is a prime example of a co-op game that groups of friends tend to cluster around that's also successfully married extensive RPG systems with full shooter mechanics.
If I were to add a fifth game to this list it'd be Dark Souls, but pretty much everyone says that these days!

they also mentioned that the levelsystem of BL2 will affect EC (but dont know how much)

Space Marine was amazing, Relic really nailed the warhammer 40k combat in that game. For me, it was one of the best fpp games that I have ever played, truly. Really looking forward to the Eternal Crusade, if combat will be similar to the one in Space Marine then I know what game I will be playing in 2015.

oh btw another wh40k game in the works:

Space wolf!

http://eternalcrusader.com/threads/warhammer-40-000-space-wolf.43/

Oh god what i have done.

BL2 it's about the "skill/perk" sistem, they aim for al lot of passive with very few active skill (it's a tps not a mmorpg) EC dont' have level likee BL2, (i imagine will be like the secret world) and advancement it's horizontal not vertical, yes some power increase but limited to be better at doing something particular.

imagine some passive skill tree like 1/5 point for skill the first point unlock an equiment and more point give small bonus or unlock extra thing on the weapon.
i imagine space marine like.

inferno pistol> melta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combimelta
____ A ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A
boltgun >bolter > stalker bolter > stormbolter > combi bolter
_____v ________________________________________ v
plasma pistol> plasma gun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>combiplasma

A hellgun/hellpistol has nothing to do with meltaguns...

 Soladrin wrote:
Makes no sense, borderlands has nothing in common with the concept of this game... And borderlands isn't that great for straight up gameplay anyway IMO...

Holy crap we agree on something video game related

yes i intend inferno/us pistol. it's only and example, because infernus pistol are really rare but maybe can be a special weampon exclusive to blood angel

grigdusher wrote:
Oh god what i have done.

BL2 it's about the "skill/perk" sistem, they aim for al lot of passive with very few active skill (it's a tps not a mmorpg) EC dont' have level likee BL2, (i imagine will be like the secret world) and advancement it's horizontal not vertical, yes some power increase but limited to be better at doing something particular.

imagine some passive skill tree like 1/5 point for skill the first point unlock an equiment and more point give small bonus or unlock extra thing on the weapon.
i imagine space marine like.

inferno pistol> melta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combimelta
____ A ----------------------------------------------------------------------- A
boltgun >bolter > stalker bolter > stormbolter > combi bolter
_____v ________________________________________ v
plasma pistol> plasma gun >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>combiplasma

i could more imagine something like this:
1/5 unlock plasma weapons > 2/5 faster cooldown > 3/5 carry an extra magazine > 4/5 unlock loaded shot > 5/5 5 sec minor afterburn damage after hit with loaded shot

or something like this would be still kinda horizontal

Yeah. Instead of a "Stalker Bolter" I'd rather see upgrades for weapons - which would include an M.40 targeter, a silencer and Stalker silenced shells to turn your standard boltgun into that which the Space Marine videogame described as "Stalker Bolter", as this is (a) how I learned it to work from GW's own fluff and (b) allows PS2-style "sidegrades" to keep a preferred weapon viable throughout the game.

Other upgrades could include a laser sight, different magazines (strip, sickle, drum), more ammunition types (hellfire, metal storm, etc), purity seals (resistance bonus against psychic attacks or willpower effects?) ...
... even the "Combi-Weapon" could be replaced by simply offering the secondary weapon as a high-tier upgrade for the standard boltgun. Choose either melta or flamer attachment, then you get a secondary function that takes 2-3 minutes to recharge.

GW's Inquisitor RPG is still available as a free download on their website; it may provide more inspiration to that regard.