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I guess either something which focuses on the ecclesiarchal pentient engine, flagellant madness stuff. Or a closer look at one of the orders. Although I am not sure which one they could do since only the colour and the small bits of fluff really distinguishes them atm. Its not like Ulthwe or Lynanden where there are big differences in how the army works with lots of speciality units or a theme. Plus the one with the most distinct colour scheme (Martyred Lady) with the red and black is also the generic colour scheme. Until they eventually bring out a SoB codex and we see how they've shaken up the rules and lore it'll be hard to tell. But its hard to see how it is doable.

How about a real codex first?

Codex: Blood Sacrifice. Dual Purpose! This book opens up new gaming opportunities for both your Sisters of Battle as well as your Grey Knights!

There've been a few ideas tossed around. Here's a few of of them, with input from some recent /tg/ threads. Disclaimer, I'm not exactly an expert on crunch, so I won't go into too much detail. Feel free to add to it, though.

For the Orders:

- Sacred Rose: Rets get slow and purposeful. Possibly some sort of shooting buff.
-Valorous Heart: Can take repentias as troops, repentias get a buff of some kind. Extra initiative, maybe.
- Bloody Rose: Dominions get a buff of some sort. Some sort of bonus to shooting, I would imagine.
- Martyred Lady: Some or all units get Stubborn.
- Ebon Chalice: Celestians get a buff. Some sort of general stat boost? I'm imagining something that makes them better fighters all-around.
- Argent Shroud: There have been some interesting suggestions for this Order. Some people suggested an improved allies chart, to represent their nature, but I'm not sure myself. But just doing this for Space Marines would make sense. A fun mechaninc might be that they get buffs as they take casualties, representing their thing for selfless heroism. An army that gets stronger the more you beat it up.

And of course, all of these would greatly flesh out the fluff of the Order it focuses on, telling us tales of their glorious campaigns and stories about their origins. Argent Shroud and Valorous Heart especially would have great potential for good fluff if they were fleshed out, IMO.

Also, as you said, an Ecclesiarchy-themed one would be good. Presumably it would buff priests/Confessors ect and possibly let you take conclaves as troops. Also, a zealot mob would be great. Though I'd want that to be in the regular SoB codex anyway.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
Although I am not sure which one they could do since only the colour and the small bits of fluff really distinguishes them atm.

Not exactly, they're actually fairly distinct in terms of personality and history. Though I can forgive you for thinking that they're all more or less similar. The problem is that individual Orders haven't been fleshed out very much.

Unlike many other factions within the game, one of the thing that sets the Sisterhood apart is the monodominant traits they exhibit. Whether an Order Major or Minor, the Orders Militant of the Adeptus Sororitas share a common training basis, common origins and a unified faith. Their tactical doctrine is unified, far more so than the more-numerous Space Marines and their Codex Astartes.

What could GW release as a supplement to them?

A Codex that's more of an effort than a handful of pages spread between two issues of White Dwarf would be a good start.

Access to IG-lite in the form of the Frateris Militia.

Dedicated air and armor support beyond the Immolater and the Exorcist.

Plastic kits.

Plastic kits.

Plastic kits.

A re-done model line in plastic kits.

Did I mention plastic kits yet?

Why does every army need a supplement now? I think supplements should be given to sub factions that act considerably different from their main faction in the fluff and therefore need these differences reflected on the tabletop. Sisters of battle have never really stood out as a faction with a lot of diversity in its ranks. In my opinion these armies should have supplements because they've already established how different they can be :

Space marines of course, i don't really need to explain

Imperial guard, due to the fact of how specialized some regiments can be

Chaos space marines basically same reason as space marines they're descended from different legions with different traits

Necrons based on the political strife and differences in motive between certain lords seen in their codex, I do admit i'm biased because I liked the idea of the c'tan being in charge of the Necrons and want to see them come back in a possible Oldcrons supplement and keep it in mind I don't even play necrons

Orks because we've already been told how different some tribes are example being a speed freaks supplement

even Tau a faction known for its unity could have pulled it off with a farsight supplement

and of course Tyranids because aliens that mutate based on what they eat just begs for a few supplements

I omitted chaos demons because any attempt to break them down will be seen as GW trying to get more of your money, I also didn't include the space marine flavors because well they're space marines...... that are different and of course dark eldar because nothing really tells us theirs a sub-faction that fights considerably any different from the rest.

My houseruled Codex for the Sisters of Battle (no, you cannot see it right now, it's being edited and tested before being judged fit to see the light of day) mostly focuses on streamlining the existing rules, making Acts of Faith more varied and more useful, and bringing back Inquisitorial Stormtroopers as a fair-sized secondary element of the list. I won't go into the specifics of the rules here, but I can say some of Troike's rules suggestions did make it into the main list in some form.

Regarding the comments about them largely being the same, that is mostly due to the lack of attention they've gotten. Each Order could be fairly distinct if they were fleshed out a bit, and I feel that the army would be better for it,

I think that you could still have them all zealous soldiers (which is a big part of their resistance to chaos and acts of faith) while empasising how each Order is different. For example, you talk about Sacred Rose's cool-headed, disciplined traits while still establishing that they are extremely faithful. Make sure that it's establsihed that they all share the core SoB traits while also talking about what makes a given Order distict from the others.

Besides, they're not all the same anyway. It's just that there hasn't been a real chance to expound upon them. I mean the last codex had what, two, three pages of lore? The WD one I mean. Sisters haven't gotten a REAL codex since 2003.

Space Marines have been updated about 12 times total since then, in comparison\ (and C:SM, in specific, has been updated twice- and soon will get a third time since C:WH's release, if the rumors are correct).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shivman wrote:
Why does every army need a supplement now?

Why not?

Space Marines already have six supplements, shouldn't the other armies get some love, too?

I think of those orders, the likely ones to get supplements would be...

Bloody Rose and Ebon Chalice

The Bloody Roses red armor is quite distinct and the background seems to suggest them being quite assaulty or more ruthless than regular battle sisters. A few rules and wargear or warlord traits could be quite good to represent that.

Ebon Chalice, although the scheme is a little too close to the OoML who are the generic battle sisters. I think the one which is down as the oldest order and who are closest to the origional daughters of the Emperor and scions of the woman who shot Vandire in the head sounds like a sufficient premise for a supplement.

 Melissia wrote:
Why not? Space Marines already have six supplements, shouldn't the other armies get some love, too?

They've had six CODEXES... which actually makes your point even more poignant, since Codexes (if Iyanden is anything to go by) are bigger and full with many more rules than supplements.

Frateris Militia supplement, form an army of peasants armed with pointed sticks ready to die in droves!

Maybe Fraeteris Militia could be a supplement... if we ever got a codex.

Or plastics.

 Super Ready wrote:
They've had six CODEXES... which actually makes your point even more poignant, since Codexes (if Iyanden is anything to go by) are bigger and full with many more rules than supplements.

No, they're just supplements that are a little too big for their britches.

 Melissia wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
They've had six CODEXES... which actually makes your point even more poignant, since Codexes (if Iyanden is anything to go by) are bigger and full with many more rules than supplements.

No, they're just supplements that are a little too big for their britches.

Does this include the GKs or not?

 Melissia wrote:

shivman wrote:
Why does every army need a supplement now?

Why not?

Space Marines already have six supplements, shouldn't the other armies get some love, too?

Because character assassination is not love. You should not want the Sisters to be reduced to the likes of the Blood Angels, freaks who selfishly hoard STC that could be better used elsewhere, instead of letting all Adepta Sororitas reap the rewards of any advance.

 AlexHolker wrote:
You should not want the Sisters to be reduced to the likes of the Blood Angels, freaks who selfishly hoard STC that could be better used elsewhere, instead of letting all Adepta Sororitas reap the rewards of any advance.

I want more fluff, not less.

 Kain wrote:
Does this include the GKs or not?

There are seven SM codices. I called six of them supplements. Take a guess

Sisters don't really need a supplement, they need an actual codex. The faith system needs to be either reworked (again), returned to what it was before (least likely to happen), or dropped (worst option). Personally, I'm using my Sister models as Blood Angels until a real book is released for them.

That said, I wouldn't change much. Penitent Engines really should be changed over to monstrous creatures, based on how utterly awful they are as walkers yet given the current meta shift to MCs making good sense for our PEs. Repentia should be cheaper and have a much larger squad size, say 5-30. Immolators need to be Fast like they use to be, and have a Rhino style Fire Point like they use to have. Exorcists should be able to fire indirect ... because they shoot straight up into the air!

On Fratris Militia, I'd almost pass except that an IG styled platoon does make sense ... and can be done through allying in an IG Platoon! Imperial Stormtroopers also make sense ... and can be allied in from the IG.

Not much, but it needs to be in a book, not a couple articles in White Dwarf.

SJ

 Melissia wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
You should not want the Sisters to be reduced to the likes of the Blood Angels, freaks who selfishly hoard STC that could be better used elsewhere, instead of letting all Adepta Sororitas reap the rewards of any advance.

I want more fluff, not less.

Absolutely, but it should be fluff about what the Sisters actually are. If you don't like that the Adepta Sororitas is a close-knit organisation without the petty infighting that allows flaws like the limited uptake of the Baal-pattern engine to fester, then that's your problem.

 AlexHolker wrote:
Absolutely, but it should be fluff about what the Sisters actually are

And even amongst Sisters fans there's plenty of variation on that.

For example, there's numerous fans who, like me, believe in them as highly disciplined "soldiers of god" and the like, focusing on the elite Sororitas units like Celestians and Seraphim. Meanwhile, contrasting that, there's also numerous fans who believe that they are utterly insane fanatics with little to no discipline, who lead an army of freakish followers to victory-- the players that love to focus on things like Arco-Flagellants and Repentia.

There's plenty of room for both to be done as supplements while still keeping the core focus of the army.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
How about a real codex first?

This is the most important part.

I've said it before in a thread like this, but my impression is that if you're a Sisters player then the WD Codex was meant to fob you off. And I know that some armies have had a WD Codex as a prelude to a proper one, but take a look at the Apocalypse release: not even a token attempt at a formation for your army. If I were a Sisters player, I'd not be optimistic.

Now, I'm sure that if they got a proper relaunch, with an actual book and plastics, GW would shift a truckload. Even leaving aside their obviously loyal existing fans...it's a new army, and a power armoured faction that's different to just another set of differently-coloured Space Marines.

I thought the "Needs a proper codex first" was a base assumption of this thread that didn't need to be stated repeatedly ad infinitum.

 Melissia wrote:
I thought the "Needs a proper codex first" was a base assumption of this thread that didn't need to be stated repeatedly ad infinitum.

I think it's more a case of people pointing out that before talking supplements it would be nice to actually get a little more acknowledgement from GW that the army still exists. Just general grumbling, really.

That said, I understand this is a "what if" thread, and it looks like the trend of "buy a whole new book for a slightly different list" is here to stay, so my suggestion would be, rather than something that just shuffles the way you can write lists from the original book, a general Ministorum book with priests, frateris militia and a few new made up units. Maybe some sort of high-up who can bring a regimental advisor-style retinue, or a demagogue-type model that's weak in combat but can hand out buffs, a kind of Imperial Ethereal. Could use this book with IG as well. Convert the models from WHFB kits with 40K gear (so GW sells twice as much?).

Ideally I'd want to see all the Orders they want to include in the original book, rather than keeping a famous one aside for supplement purposes.

 Fezman wrote:
take a look at the Apocalypse release: not even a token attempt at a formation for your army. If I were a Sisters player, I'd not be optimistic.

Yes that is worrying, but apparently Apocalypse is meant to be getting supplements itself.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/apocalypse-warzones-new-formations.html

So we might see them yet. And it does say that Armageddon is being released alongside Apoc. Don't know if the formations for Armegedddon were leaked yet, but if not then Sisters might be included. They were heavily involved in Armegeddon's defense, after all.

 Melissia wrote:
For example, there's numerous fans who, like me, believe in them as highly disciplined "soldiers of god" and the like, focusing on the elite Sororitas units like Celestians and Seraphim. Meanwhile, contrasting that, there's also numerous fans who believe that they are utterly insane fanatics with little to no discipline, who lead an army of freakish followers to victory-- the players that love to focus on things like Arco-Flagellants and Repentia.

There's plenty of room for both to be done as supplements while still keeping the core focus of the army.

And the thing is that chances for variations like that already exist in the fluff. You've got Valorous Heart for your focus on fanatical, repentia-based tactics and Ebon Chalice for your focus on the elite soldiers of the Sororitas. They literally just need to flesh out what's already there a bit.

 Fezman wrote:
Ideally I'd want to see all the Orders they want to include in the original book, rather than keeping a famous one aside for supplement purposes.

I can understand your reasoning, but as a fluff nut, I wouldn't mind a supplement focusing on one Order. Like regular codexes, a supplement is a presentation of fluff as well as rules. And some Orders do have the potential to play very interestingly on the tabletop. Valorous Heart, for example, could take what is traditionally a ranged army and make running it in a melee centred style completely viable.

Wasn't the last rumour about the Sisters that they would BE a supplement codex?
Granted this isn't from any know reliable source but the reliable sources haven't said anything for quite some time now.

Anyway, Sister Supplement?
Assuming the Codex is closer to a Codex: Ecclesiarchy then just Sisters; two Supplements straight off the bat, Crazy Populous and Sister-Centric.

Sisters of Battle: Sandwiches 101

Honestly, though, how can there be a supplement for an army that does not even have a codex now?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Honestly, though, how can there be a supplement for an army that does not even have a codex now?

Again, this thread is assuming that a supplement would follow a rnew codex.

Also, they do have a codex, it simply isn't distributed by GW these days. There's a difference.

 Kettu wrote:
Wasn't the last rumour about the Sisters that they would BE a supplement codex?
Granted this isn't from any know reliable source but the reliable sources haven't said anything for quite some time now.

Hmm, but would this work very well mechanically? GKs and Sisters are quite different on the allies chart, so they'd need to redo that and potentially mess with people's armies. Not that GW isn't above screwing with people a bit, that is.

Also, they are two distinct armies with differing playstyles. Trying to mash them together could end up with some units being made redundant, losing their usefulness or being nerfed and such.

Though I will say that I might be okay with Sisters being a supplement if it was done very well. That would mean plenty of good fluff, a solid and competetive rules, and nice artwork. Plus the extra gubbins like a unique warlord table and such. But from a purely personal view, I'd still much prefer a standalone codex.