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I'm just wondering whether the Imperium of Man includes smaller nations, republics, principalities etc. within it's borders. Now I know of Ultramar, and my question is refering to other 'entities' similar to itself in style of governance and toleration by the IoM, but in Ultramar's case I'm gathering it was a one-off because it was a Primarch who was given the right to set it up.

I'm just wondering if there are many other examples of this happening, through trade, grants or otherwise, as a similar sort of trading/military based 'empire' will form the basis of fluff I'm thinking of for a IG regiment I'm wanting to do sometime in the far future...

All help is welcome and appreciated!

It's more akin to the USA with individual states forming a larger union. Except in this case the federal government has significantly more power than the individual "states".

The High Lords and the Administratum care little for who rules a world as long as business runs harmoniously. Most planets are left to govern themself as long as the tithes come in and the church can spread the word. Democracy, hereditary monarchy or military dictatorship - it matters not.

Ofc, the Adeptus Mechanicus is a sort of free-standing nation within the Empire. They provide scientific and technical expertise and produce huge amounts of materiel for the army and navy, in exchange for lording it over matters of technology.

Do you mean on the planetary level or do you mean groups of planets, star systems etc?

If you mean the latter, I guess that's what the division into sectors and subsectors is all about, presumably with governors at each level down to he planetary governors themselves. This sounds like it might get unwieldy, but then again the Imperium sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare.

If you mean the former, it depends on the planet. As long as the Imperium can appoint a governor and raise its yearly levies (be they money, industrial output, Guard recruits or whatever else) it doesn't care about how the planet's run, as long as they don't try to rebel or join an outside power. For instance, a prehistoric-level tribal world might have the governor lurking on an orbital while the planet itself is divided up among the hunting grounds of the various tribes.

It also seems there are some more advanced worlds divided into nations, but these only seem to appear in BL stuff. The one that springs to mind is the planet from the book Straight SIlver, which was essentially "Planet WW1." One of the nations had gone over to Chaos, but rather than just nuking the whole world the Imperium sent IG forces to back up the national armies of the states allied against it.

There are imperial administrators who "rule" over entire sectors if that's what the OP is asking. Marius Hax for example.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Marius_Hax

Of course, in this case "rule" is used loosely, just like the Imperium itself. However, pretty sure there are blocks of planets that are united and more closely governed together just like the Ultramarines' territory. I just can't think of the names off the top of my head.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm just wondering whether the Imperium of Man includes smaller nations, republics, principalities etc. within it's borders. Now I know of Ultramar, and my question is refering to other 'entities' similar to itself in style of governance and toleration by the IoM, but in Ultramar's case I'm gathering it was a one-off because it was a Primarch who was given the right to set it up.

I'm just wondering if there are many other examples of this happening, through trade, grants or otherwise, as a similar sort of trading/military based 'empire' will form the basis of fluff I'm thinking of for a IG regiment I'm wanting to do sometime in the far future...

All help is welcome and appreciated!

The simple answer is "no" - there are no semi-autonomous, state-like entities within the IoM. The Adeptus Mechanicus has a lot of independence, but only with respect to scientific and/or industrial matters. Even then, it's still within the IoM's space that they operate. Even Ultramar could hardly be considered a anything like a state... and hardly independent.

The IoM is not a Republic. It's not even close. It's simply a monarchy/dictatorship where the head dude happens to be (almost) dead, and a council of regents lords over His domain in his... absence.

The answer is yes, there are millions of states, regions, and planets that are their own entities within the IoM.

As long as a nation's Lord recognizes Terra as above his own power and he pays his Tithe, the Administratum is content.

As long as a nation's Lord recognizes the Emperor as the God-Emperor of Mankind above his authority the Ecclessarichy and the Imperial Cult is content.

If these two conditions are met any state may do as they wish until the Inquisition shows up and tells them otherwise. So really, the IoM is hundreds of thousands, if not millions of autonomous states that pay homage to the two great organizations that bind it together with the other forces either pulling or pushing influence upon them.

Many thanks to everyone for the answers, they completely cover what I was wondering.

@fezman - Yeah, I was thinking about groups of worlds, such as Ultramar's 500 worlds within the Ultramar domain. it makes sense that as long as they pay tithes and don't actively rebel against Imperial Policy they can be left to their own devices.

Essentially, my idea is based very much around 18th-19th century Great Britain (With early 1700-1800's British Empire themes) , with a small, but influential trading empire of worlds, with vast trade fleets, a forge world or two and many Ig regiments, but which are still owe allegiance to, and are included within, the Imperial borders. It's just going to be a bit of background fluff to go with a Napoleonic era British Army based IG regiment, so I was just wondering if my fluff would 'fit'.

Many thanks all!

For another example, I'd highly suggest reading up on the Severan Dominate in Only War. They're exactly as you describe and had been such even prior to their attempted secession from the Imperium. I expect there's a huge amount about them in the newly released Enemies of the Imperium book.

Well there is the Arkhan confederation which is a coalition of 12th planets who reside within the Imperium.

Each individual planet is free to have its own system of government, and even interplanetary coalitions are allowed(like Ultramar)

Each planet will also have an Imperial Governor. The governor can be as hands on or hands off as he wants, his word is law. He may have direct control over the entire planet like a dictator, or he may simply be an observer making sure the Tithe is paid and imperial law is observed. Only stepping in if needed.

The Imperium actually has very few laws to enforce. Pay the Tithe, worship the Emperor, don't fraternize with xenos, respect all authority figures, and turn in all your psykers. Beyond that they really don't care.

Forgeworld's Badab War series described exactly what you were asking about: region of space, controlled by a council of Trade Princes who exercised local authority over their own domain, but were themselves vassals to Imperial authority.

Ahhh, yeah - I forgot that Badab was a princedom in effect.

@jareddm - I'll check those book out - they may be useful.

Thanks again all!

1. Pay taxe
2. Don't commit heresy
3. You are now a member of the imperium.

The Imperium actually has a set of laws so complex and huge from 10,000 years of law-making that it can take an adeptus arbiter years to finish a single case.

However, it seems that most of these laws don't affect the average planety governor or planetary government/set of governments. Otherwise we'd probably see a lot more fluff about the issue. ...or maybe the fluff's just being inconsistent. Again.

The Imperium is so vast and its worlds so varied that any form of government that you can conceive of exists somewhere.

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Imperium actually has a set of laws so complex and huge from 10,000 years of law-making that it can take an adeptus arbiter years to finish a single case.

However, it seems that most of these laws don't affect the average planety governor or planetary government/set of governments. Otherwise we'd probably see a lot more fluff about the issue. ...or maybe the fluff's just being inconsistent. Again.

And where are you getting this information?

Imperial Law is quite simple and clear. Planetary law may be a different thing, but that isn't something an Arbiter would be concerned with.


There isn't much fluff on this because it doesn't relate to the table top game.

 Grey Templar wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
The Imperium actually has a set of laws so complex and huge from 10,000 years of law-making that it can take an adeptus arbiter years to finish a single case.

However, it seems that most of these laws don't affect the average planety governor or planetary government/set of governments. Otherwise we'd probably see a lot more fluff about the issue. ...or maybe the fluff's just being inconsistent. Again.

And where are you getting this information?

Imperial Law is quite simple and clear. Planetary law may be a different thing, but that isn't something an Arbiter would be concerned with.


There isn't much fluff on this because it doesn't relate to the table top game.

The Book of Judgement (Dark Heresy supplement) and Long Arm of the Law (Inquisitor) are almost entirely about the arbites and "a small portion of the Dictates Imperalis (Imperial Law)", which is MASSIVE (the small portion is massive, that is. We can only begin to imagine how HUGE the 10,000 year old lawbook in its entirety is).

There's also a novel series about a female arbiter, though I dunno how in-depth about Imperial law it is.

Fairly in-depth, and it is the primary source for the Book of Judgement.

It seems to be a great misconception that the Imperium of Man is something akin to Oceania from George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. It is not. The Imperium of Man is at best a feudal empire, and at worst, a hegemony.

You strictly must worship the Emperor, but how you worship it is an entirely different manner and very free as long as it doesn't end up as Chaos worship disguised as Emperor worship. There are like, countless variants of the Imperial cult.

Warhammer's grimdarkness of Civilian life stems more from the quality of living than freedom of speech, I think (besides Chaos speech or outright anti-Emperor/Imperium speech). Of course, in a grim dark galaxy where you're too busy being miserable and stuck in your job role with little hope of progression, freedom of speech isn't going to mean much anyways

Freedom of Speech implies the right to criticize your government. That is expressly heresy, for the government of the Imperium is representative of the God-Emperor, who cannot be criticized.

That said, criticizing the local planetary government is fine as long as you keep the tithe flowing.

If your local planetary governor permits you to criticize him or her, yes. If not? He or she can have you and your family rendered into Servitors, and there is nothing you can do about it. There is no higher authority to appeal to. The Planetary Governor holds their position by edict of the High Lords of Terra, in the name of the God-Emperor. On the local level, however, their authority is absolute (barring a local Inquisitorial presence). If you live on their world, you are their serf. You have no automatic rights, no guarantees of liberty, no permission to do anything but work your shifts, attend Temple services, and pay your tithe.

Oh, yea, there's no freedom of speech on the macro level, in retrospect. However, as shown by many fluff quotes, citizens and servants do grumble amongst each other about things, unlike 1984, and you're allowed to call a higher up out on incompetence, etc (besides the Emperor, obviously).

Basically you can criticize individuals and also criticize various aspects of the system (those who want reform in the Imperium aren't executed for heresy ALL the time. It's why even Radicals exist), but you can't do anything that would call for the destruction of the Imperium as a whole.

...varies from planet to planet, of course. I don't think any planet has the resources to bring things to 1984 levels, though.

"To begin Reform is to begin Revolution" as the saying goes.

Of course, there is speech amongst people of the same social strata... even denying people the right to free speech does not stop people from talking, they're not automatons. after all.

I would counter that the majority of Hive Worlds in the Imperium are *exactly* like 1984, with (assuming a 24 hour day, 7-day week) a 16 hour work-shift, 3 hours mandatory worship service, and 1 hour mandatory physical exercise, leaving 4 hours for sleep, shower, meals, family time, etc.

As the OP, I'm not fussed if this is OT, so carry on people!

@Psienesis - I reckon though people would burn out way too quickly if that was the case.

Assuming that approx 75% of a planets population are working age (from 15-65 in the IoM), even with a high population into the double figure billions, if people were given only 4 hours sleep a day, with weekends off an impossibility and feast days/festivals/celebration days few and very far between, they would die from sleep deprivation very quickly. I would imagine that even with natural replenishment from reproduction (Which, with 4 hours only 4 hours a day free time, is going to be limited greatly I'm guessing), the population would be dying quicker than they would be reproducing - forcing a low efficiency workforce, which is not something that the Imperium of Man is going to be happy about.

I think a 12 hour work shift, 3 hours worship, 1 hour PT, 1 hour travel times would be a more likely arrangment for a few reasons:

A) 12 hours still gives an extended period in which efficiency and output can be maximised.

B) Considering the size of hives, the travel times to work, a brief (maybe 10 minute or so) break to wolf down sustenance mid-work, natural time-loss accumulation (stuff like dropping a tool and having to look for it, running an errand, clearing a machine jam etc.) and the journey back home - a small grace period must be allowed by the IoM to marshal the workforce and keep them operating at peak efficiency.

C) Probably the most important point, but running on 4 hours of sleep would burn a human out in short order, hence the above schedule would give the worker 7 hours of sleep - the optimum amount of sleep needed for the human to work at full efficiency. Seeing as humans will form the vast majority of the workforce, it would make sense that te IoM at least gives them the time to sleep properly to maintain an effective workforce - even if they have no other 'free' time.

The Imperium isn't Big Brother. They can't keep constant surveillance. They do like the citizens to think that, but its not the case.

They are not going to be pulling 16 hour work days. With a population as big as it is, such a measure is unnecessary. You could easily get by on 10-12 hours, and not even with the entire population being in forced labor.


The Imperium also doesn't run everything. There are private businesses and commerce.

They can't be bothered to micromanage everything, such a task would be impossible. At best they are macromanaging, and only loosely.

@Psienesis - I reckon though people would burn out way too quickly if that was the case.

Assuming that approx 75% of a planets population are working age (from 15-65 in the IoM), even with a high population into the double figure billions, if people were given only 4 hours sleep a day, with weekends off an impossibility and feast days/festivals/celebration days few and very far between, they would die from sleep deprivation very quickly. I would imagine that even with natural replenishment from reproduction (Which, with 4 hours only 4 hours a day free time, is going to be limited greatly I'm guessing), the population would be dying quicker than they would be reproducing - forcing a low efficiency workforce, which is not something that the Imperium of Man is going to be happy about.

The Imperium doesn't care that much about efficiency, really. They can introduce all sorts of things that make maximal use out of the population. People dying off too fast? Turn them into servitors. People not breeding enough? Put something in the water supply. People having too little energy from too little sleep? Put aerosol stimulants in the air supply.

It would be easiest, though, to simply provide a single day off every 10 days. That way, they get caught up on their sleep (not really) and can be back at the Manufactorum, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, the following day to start all over again.

Of course, people will also sleep on the job, fall asleep and then fall into the massive, grinding gears at the button factory or the architectural skull design firm, and either be killed or fired, which winds up with them being cast down into the Underhive to become gangers, or the victims of gangers, or rendered down into corpse starch rations.

... it's a GrimDark Future, man, it doesn't have to make sense or even be remotely plausible, it just has to be Grim. And Dark. At the same time.

Yeah, It's gotta be grim dark, but, and I know people will think this next statement is gonna be crazy, it's still got to have a shred of logic to it. If it wasn't plausible, then no-body would be interested in Games Workshop's products and fiction because we'd all just think it was a load of mini-makers on LSD trying to grab people's money... wait a moment...

Nah in all seriousness, I can see how the IoM would get around issues of worker quality, but if every planet was as inefficient then the IoM would have ground to a halt millenia before, mere years after the Emperor fell. Plus, a day off every 10 days? I really don't think the IoM has even heard of week-ends.