Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As is usual for me, as I was in the middle of modeling an odd thought came to me, "What if each Skaven clan had their own troops"? I mean, Pestilence and Eshin can be checked off as they both have basic "Troops" and a more elite version of them, and some would argue Moulder does as well with rat ogres but I'm not so sure.

I think it would be cool for Moulder to have a unit of mutated Skaven, either troops or elite with the basic idea that they are either purposely or accidentally mutated Skaven clanrats, they wouldn't need Packmasters, but I think suffering from the stupidity special rule would make sense. Perhaps a 6+ regen save, and maybe some upgrades for an extra attack, or poisoned attacks. This isn't by any means my attempt at creating a balanced unit (Or trying to propose actual rules for them), I am just throwing out some of my ideas for clan specific choices.

Skyre is a pretty popular clan from what I can gather, and they have plenty of players already running armies dedicated to the Lightning loving little guys, so the fact that they don't have a special troop is surprising to me. Yet as I puzzled around with the idea I realized that a big unit of soldiers is not Skyre's Shtick (I am loving the Alliteration this post), I mean a unit of musket wielding rats would seem a little too Jezzail Esq. and a massed unit of infantry seems so below the technomages. After all they sell and mass produce magic, they create the weapons and train the weapon teams that other clans use, the generic clanrat is by far the most fitting unit for Skyre troops, however since I am a selfish player I have another idea. Well to be honest I didn't have the idea at all, I believe flamingkillamajig, was the one who first suggested jet-pack Skaven. A unit of jet-pack flying, brace of warplock pistol armed Skyre engineers, is exceptionally cool to me. They could have the Skirmish rule, The jet-pack could give them the fly special rule however they must always take a dangerous terrain test to jump, this would put them in a role of jumping to a building then running in, the leader could buy a strength 1 flame template weapon that is a giant Tesla cannon. The more i think about them the more I just fall in love with the idea, if the unit is made I would buy 30 of them with a smile on my face.


One last and perhaps off topic idea, being able to dedicate chieftains and warlords to a clan, I like how Skaven items are presented on a clan to clan basis, I would just like to see the idea a bit tweaked, such as a Moulder chieftain could take stim injectors to give him Frenzy, stuff like that, The only reason is it kind of stinks that your all Eshin army has a fairly out of place chieftain just there for the BSB.

Feel free to throw in your ideas.

I believe the 6th edition codex had a variant army list format for each of the major clans. I miss that about those books, made for some fun (if somewhat unbalanced in some cases) games.

To my knowledge i came up with the idea of skaven with jet packs in a steampunk variety. A friend of mine did suggest to use warplock pistols on them and that could actually work seeing as they're quick to fire but for some reason i thought it'd be nice with poisoned wind globadiers (though obviously a mortar couldn't use them for much. Then again i suppose a flying model could give it a more insane version of 'line of sight' to its target.

Oddly enough there's something about skaven that gets my creativity flowing like a skaven leading humans out of a village to become slaves instead of a sort of piper that leads rats out of a village or an assassin throwing a throwing star into the eye of 'Professor Chaos' in the form of a warrior of chaos hero (south park reference).

If skryre does get any troops at all it should probably be in the form of warplock pistoliers i'd figure. In a sense skryre does have units it's just their units are more along the lines of jezzails, globadiers, some weapons teams and some war machines. I suppose i see your point that it lacks variety if you want to be very clan specific. Perhaps in the future they could do a sort of 'codex: iyanden' treatment with the skaven's greater clans?

Skryre might use numbers actually. Considering how often their weapons explode and the whole previous 'life is cheap' rule they'd probably not care for infantry to tie up the enemy while they nuke everything including themselves a bit. That said slaves are very skryre and clanrats should at least be a bit there for bulk though possibly a specialty foot soldier for each greater clan might be interesting or at least specialty elites. Maybe each clan can only use their specific hero but gets more stuff for their own use. Perhaps Clan skryre can only use warlocks as heroes and maybe they have a master warlock in the form of the necromancer and master necromancer of vampire counts. These characters would then get specialty equipment like crazy powerful items that only clan specific skaven can use. Like the current book but crazier and more points heavy. For instance a skryre magic item that costs over 50 points in the form of a bomb or some sort.

That said making each clan extremely separate would make it overall weaker in some senses but the playing styles of each clan would be fun and offer something new for each different skaven player. Not to mention you could probably have a standard skaven that is mixed but doesn't have all the best stuff that each faction has. For instance if you went Clan moulder perhaps you have some crazy warlord/master moulder riding a hellpit abomination as a mount wielding some crazy creature or monster killer though that'd be insane. However things like warp lightning cannons and such would be less available to them unless they did a sort of Skaven Undivided (like chaos). Basically you can go clan specific or undivided the way i think of it. Possibly even with a warlord clans option with options for a little of everything though that might be undivided. I wonder if the grey seers would get anything special? More magic support probably.

I wasn't as much thinking of dividing the Greater clans into their own separate armies, I love having my 8 rat ogres marching next to my plague furnace, I just was rolling the idea around for some more clan specific stuff to give players the option to go all out when dedicating themselves to a clan.

Well the previous imperial guard codex (the one i used when i started 40k in 2007 or so) basically allowed doctrines which gave you certain doctrines you could take up to a max of 4 i think (though it's been a while). I dunno if this is one idea to cater your armies to your particular tastes.

As someone who also browses the 40k blogs (old habits die hard), many people don't look back on doctrines fondly, they were apparently kind of a mixed bag, it was super cool to dedicate yourself, but it also had some.... balance issues.

 sandant wrote:


I think it would be cool for Moulder to have a unit of mutated Skaven, either troops or elite with the basic idea that they are either purposely or accidentally mutated Skaven clanrats, they wouldn't need Packmasters, but I think suffering from the stupidity special rule would make sense. Perhaps a 6+ regen save, and maybe some upgrades for an extra attack, or poisoned attacks. This isn't by any means my attempt at creating a balanced unit (Or trying to propose actual rules for them), I am just throwing out some of my ideas for clan specific choices.

Sounds to me like a skaven version of chaos forsaken. Not saying it wouldn't work but it sounds like it. Not sure if we need it considering the plague monks but you never know. Perhaps clan moulder armies can be more giant rat heavy or have more rat beasts in them like the rat ogre with stormvermin rider cavalry or similar. In melee they'd only have a 4+ save anyway. Considering all the monstrous cavalry and the bonebreaker for the warlord this actually might make sense to me.

That or perhaps we get a skaven version of goblin wolf riders or goblin spider riders with some sort of fast cavalry that's super terrible leadership but has great skirmishing potential to face war machines and such. Of course we have giants rats for that but a certain level of speed would be nice. In fact i like that idea a lot for skaven. At least we'd have a fairly fast unit that most likely has swiftstride then. Of course we may not need it what with the jetpack skaven but i figure that depends on what the jetpack skaven have. If they have the pistols they could take out a bit of fast cavalry maybe though i'm unsure if it could handle war machines. I'd imagine since they can fly even with dangerous terrain tests they still have quick to fire weapons. When you think about it whether or not their pistols are 8" or 10" in range they still count as magical so can waste ethereal units, they can fly around and shoot people after flying above units and then do whatever. Actually the unit works well in theory. I think if they did have pistols it'd be dual pistols like the pistolier cavalry from the empire.

I actually run a Clan Moulder list with about a 50/50 win loss.
Masses of giant rats and always 9 or more rat ogres. Working towards a horde of them. Working on rat ogre bonebreaker. And of course the mandatory abomination...It is afterall one of Moulders greatest creations. It is a fast moving army but requires good timing and quite a bit of luck. Tons of fun and looks great.

Since many armies are getting monstrous cavalry I think that Skaven may get pox rat monstrous cavalry ....I should say I hope..
Combine those with new plague monk sculpts in line with the plague priest and I may be changing my name to Skrolk

Throt wrote:
I actually run a Clan Moulder list with about a 50/50 win loss.
Masses of giant rats and always 9 or more rat ogres. Working towards a horde of them. Working on rat ogre bonebreaker. And of course the mandatory abomination...It is afterall one of Moulders greatest creations. It is a fast moving army but requires good timing and quite a bit of luck. Tons of fun and looks great.

Since many armies are getting monstrous cavalry I think that Skaven may get pox rat monstrous cavalry ....I should say I hope..
Combine those with new plague monk sculpts in line with the plague priest and I may be changing my name to Skrolk

Most of the old weapons teams, almost all special choices if not all of them and some heroes and lords need new sculpts. I think giant rats are also in line for an update here. Oh and release a separate weapons team for the poisoned wind mortar already. Geez!

I've actually been thinking of the jetpack skaven more and more and i like the idea. I've been thinking of them using pistols more lately. What do you think should be the price tag (for points) on these models? If they use warplock pistols i figure instead of poisoned wind globes they should probably be cheaper. Probably in the 12-15 points per model range? Considering how ridiculously unstable these guys are and how easily they could flee i figure the 12 pts per model range seems more suitable even with dual warplock pistols.

Both are quick to fire though and both can cause checks. Normally i would throw out a high price tag but you have to understand if you don't take a big enough unit of these guys considering how far from the general and BSB they will be they'll probably have a basic skaven leadership of 5 and they'll be losing guys to dangerous terrain checks and to their own shooting. This isn't even considering they likely could start running if you don't use terrain to block them from magic or shooting. If you were to for instance take 12 that'd be about 2 failed dangerous terrain tests per fly move (to me this is probably fair considering they're going in and out of trees with a jetpack that has a flaming part at the back). Also if you end or begin your flying movement in forests you have to take a dangerous terrain check anyway so should that be 2 dangerous terrain checks or one? Then there's the problem of dual warplock pistols with 'unstable ammunition'. Sure it's a 1/36 chance per shot that you'll hit yourself with the shot but when you count that each guy has 2 of these pistols it adds up not to mention if we do the poisoned wind globes instead it's a 1/6 of a chance to hit you and then 1/3 of a chance to wound with no armor saves allowed.

All that said the flying rule also gives them instant skirmisher rules so they can move and march and they can do a flying move of it and have swiftstride on the ground (i imagine they do small jumps with the jetpack that are much safer so don't cause dangerous terrain checks). Also considering they can move and reform as much as they wish as long as no model moves twice its distance, can fly over a unit during a march move (which can start outside of the 8" marching range of an opponent and land behind said unit only for the jetpack unit to shoot at the new unit in front of them), as skirmishers can even march and shoot but suffer from moving and shooting penalties or would if they didn't have quick to fire weapons and other such shenanigans this unit will be the best most maneuvreable flying, shooting, skirmishing unit in the game with pretty much no competition though i think none currently exists. Seriously the next closest unit in comparison would be pistoliers and though less random their weapons aren't magical weapons. Problem with these jetpack guys is that any bit of shooting would make them flee. Currently i'm guessing they'd have heavy armor though they may have to stick with light. This should give them between a 5+ and 6+ armor save though i imagine being a skirmisher and taking flight into a building is better though where flying isn't needed i'm guessing it'd be the better choice. Keep in mind that even though they have swiftstride when pursuing and fleeing they'll still just have a 5" movement and even with the extra 1" for scurry away that's not a lot if you have to face fast opponents like cavalry.

I'm guessing this unit will have BS 3 considering jezzails and pretty much every unit. Hard to say but if sharpshooters such as jezzails have BS 3 then everybody in this unit except the champion should have it too. Gutter runners are an exception perhaps because they're experts. I figure these guys will make up for everything by marching and then shooting big time. The unit itself will probably be between 5 and 20 or 5 and 15 models. I may even try to force a shooting duel against certain enemies once i fly march into close range of them before letting off a volley of warplock pistol fire. There's also the problem of how much anti-ethereal unit firepower this brings. I can imagine a unit of 15-20 absolutely vaporizing most things. Even a slann with a 2+ ward and resistant to everything that isn't magical might fear this somewhat (though probably not too much considering it has 5 wounds.)

Anyway i'm gonna go to sleep for now. This is just what i'd imagine the unit would have.

Well, it wouldn't be a case of specialising with only your specific troops anyway.

Sure, all the clans have their specialties. Moulder their attrocities, Pestilence their plagues, Rictus fields more Stormvermin than any other clan and so on and so forth.
But they all have a base of clanrats and they trade between eachother to such an extent that you won't see any of the larger clans missing anything that can be gained in the Under-Empire.
No warlord worth his salt would go without some kind of Moulder beast if he can afford it, and Eshin must have the best rental business in the Under-Empire on their assassins alone.

Hell, even my warlord of my own pathetic (and oh yes it is.) clan Tinkle bought a Rat Ogre mount from clan Moulder at the outrageous price of 3500 slaves, but he couldn't afford to be looked down upon, or his underlings would shred him to get his office.

What I'm saying is, the big clans have enough of eachother's gear that it doesn't matter what clan you field, you would be able to field anything within what they control.

Indeed which is why I mainly wanted a little more units from the big clans, some additional Skyre and Moulder stuff, which everyone can use of course, would just add some variety to the book. Of course most of this is wish listing but I find my self wanting the jet pack Skaven to be real so bad I considered contacting GW (it would do the same good as poking a Blue Whale with a pool noodle). I guess i just have to depend on the old "there's no such thing as an original idea", and hope someone else thinks of it at GW.

I can't say I'm really a fan of the jet pack idea.
Skaven don't have flyers..that's just how it is.
If..and that's a huge if for me..they were to get flyers I'd rather see Moulder with a mutated winged rat but I would hate to see flying squirrels.
There is often an urge when thinking of new units for an army many will come up with a unit that fills a role that said army lacks.
I don't want skaven to be the same as other armies. Their relative uniqueness is what I like..that and the facet they are rats
I would rather see minor expansion on what is there...that's why I love the idea of pox rat cavalry unit.
The addition of the poison wind mortar was good too.

Throt wrote:
I can't say I'm really a fan of the jet pack idea.
Skaven don't have flyers..that's just how it is.
If..and that's a huge if for me..they were to get flyers I'd rather see Moulder with a mutated winged rat but I would hate to see flying squirrels.
There is often an urge when thinking of new units for an army many will come up with a unit that fills a role that said army lacks.
I don't want skaven to be the same as other armies. Their relative uniqueness is what I like..that and the facet they are rats
I would rather see minor expansion on what is there...that's why I love the idea of pox rat cavalry unit.
The addition of the poison wind mortar was good too.

I've gotta agree. Leave the rocket jumping to the orcs. Even if Skaven were to invent soemthing like this, it would be way too valuable to let a run of the mill Skaven use it. It would only be something engineers could buy/make for themselves. Skaven doesn't make things for their rank and file that increases their lifespan or mobility. They have so many clanrats and slaves that life is cheap and they can just take casualties until they get to the enemy lines.

I also don't really see Moulder able to control something that flies. It would need a master moulder on top of it to keep it in check, and it feels like it has too many ways to turn on the moulder when the moulder is at the fliers mercy in the skies. Of course there is really nothing but the fact that they have no fliers to back this up. Maybe skaven are just afraid of heights. They are after all afraid of a great many things.

I like the pox rat cavalry, but again, even pox rats are expensive things, it's cheaper for the Skaven to simply throw more rats at the enemy than to equip an elite. Maybe as an upgrade to a unit of Stormvermin they could have the runts of the litter. The pox rats that didn't turn out well enough to sell to warlords.

Or instead of pox rats, they could have skaven mounted on large wolfrats instead. Those are actually fast, because let's all remember why we don't see people use them too often, their blistering 6inch movement speed. Wolfrats given growth stimulants and some armor would make a fine steed.

 Purifier wrote:

Throt wrote:
I can't say I'm really a fan of the jet pack idea.
Skaven don't have flyers..that's just how it is.
If..and that's a huge if for me..they were to get flyers I'd rather see Moulder with a mutated winged rat but I would hate to see flying squirrels.
There is often an urge when thinking of new units for an army many will come up with a unit that fills a role that said army lacks.
I don't want skaven to be the same as other armies. Their relative uniqueness is what I like..that and the facet they are rats
I would rather see minor expansion on what is there...that's why I love the idea of pox rat cavalry unit.
The addition of the poison wind mortar was good too.

I've gotta agree. Leave the rocket jumping to the orcs. Even if Skaven were to invent soemthing like this, it would be way too valuable to let a run of the mill Skaven use it. It would only be something engineers could buy/make for themselves. Skaven doesn't make things for their rank and file that increases their lifespan or mobility. They have so many clanrats and slaves that life is cheap and they can just take casualties until they get to the enemy lines.

I also don't really see Moulder able to control something that flies. It would need a master moulder on top of it to keep it in check, and it feels like it has too many ways to turn on the moulder when the moulder is at the fliers mercy in the skies. Of course there is really nothing but the fact that they have no fliers to back this up. Maybe skaven are just afraid of heights. They are after all afraid of a great many things.

I like the pox rat cavalry, but again, even pox rats are expensive things, it's cheaper for the Skaven to simply throw more rats at the enemy than to equip an elite. Maybe as an upgrade to a unit of Stormvermin they could have the runts of the litter. The pox rats that didn't turn out well enough to sell to warlords.

I have to disagree. The warpfire jetpacks are very dangerous and can explode. It would be very steampunk in look. Also how many weapons teams do the skaven already employ that are expensive or dangerous though probably scavenged (skaven-ged lol). Skryre uses jezzails in bulk, poisoned wind globadiers in bulk (if you can buy enough) and makes plenty of weapons teams for the other clans to sell. Considering the jezzails and the poisoned wind globadiers it's not too unlikely to see even a unit or two with poisoned wind globes and jetpacks. I mean they're wielding skryre weapons (warplock pistols or poisoned wind globes) which can misfire horribly and they are wielding some jetpack that explodes every so often as they have to take dangerous terrain checks for every fly move they make. In my opinion this is the perfect example of 'life is cheap'. Skaven would prefer a bunch of crazies to use this gear rather than endanger themselves. Also considering it probably has no more than heavy armor they'll probably die fast to a magic missile too.

Again I respect your opinion on the jet packs but it just sounds too..goblin doom diver.
I am sure that Clan skrye could .make them but the learning curve vs death rate would be too high. By the time the rat learned to be effective he'd probably die and there goes the hard worked for pack.
Rifles and wind globes you just hand to the next rat in line.

Pox rats would be easy enough. Just as rat ogres are the stable creation of clan moulder the pox rat could be just a bigger tougher rat with poisoned attacks. Heroes already get to ride them. IMO its an easy jump.

Well to be fair Skyre sticks warlock engineers that they feel are dangerous/they just don't like into one of there fanciest creations the Doomwheel, and that thing uses their natural magical abilities as a fuel source, all in the knowledge that they will end up killing themselves, and those are magically talented Skaven, in what seems to be a machine that's harder to produce then a Warp lightning cannon.