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LORDS
Highborn
Wild Rider Kindred
Stone of Crystal Mere
Sword of Might
Elven Steed
Annoyance of Netlings

SpellWeaver
Level 4
Elven Steed
Dispel Scroll
Beasts

HEROES
Noble
BSB
Great Weapon
Amaranthine Brooch
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Noble
Armour of Destiny
Great Weapon
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Spellsinger
Steed
Moonstone

CORE
20 Glade Guard
Standard and Musician
BoEternal Flame

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

SPECIAL
7 Wild Riders
Full Command
Razor Standard

The plan for this list is to play defensively, camping the wild riders in a wood until they see an opportunity to moonstone into a wonderful position to wreak havoc. And the rest of the army shoots things off or chaffs it up. Ideally, I would like to fit in a pair of eagles, but that means dropping a unit of glade guard or a unit of dryads.

LORDS
Highborn
Wild Rider Kindred
Stone of Crystal Mere
Sword of Might can only take a spear or magic spear unless something has changed in the FAQ (I don't remember a new WE coming out)
Elven Steed
Annoyance of Netlings

SpellWeaver
Level 4
Elven Steed
Dispel Scroll
Beasts

HEROES
Noble
BSB
Great Weapon can only take a spear or magic spear unless something has changed in the FAQ (I don't remember a new WE coming out), BSB can't take much in the way of options anyway, but can take a magic suit of armor I believe, a ward save is useful regardless

Amaranthine Brooch
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Noble
Armour of Destiny
Great Weapon can only take a spear or magic spear unless something has changed in the FAQ (I don't remember a new WE coming out)
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Spellsinger can't join your unit to make the moonstone worth it, has to be upgraded to forest spirit first[color]
Steed
Moonstone

CORE
20 Glade Guard
Standard and Musician
BoEternal Flame

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

8 Dryads [color=red] Drop them for the Eagles - much more useful

SPECIAL
7 Wild Riders seems kind of small, unless all the characters go here - and that's riskly
Full Command
Razor Standard

[color=red] I would probably put the moonstone on a noble with light armor andspear with other charcters in base to base and drop the second mage. Some glade riders might be usefull for your lvl4 the only FAQ I saw allowed for the Helm of the Hunt to be taken on Wild Riders, but other than that, you''re stuck with spears[color]

I'll post an updated list when I start feeling better.

Are you feeling bad because of the outdated WE book? I get a little depressed every year or so when I pick it up too. I've pretty much stopped looking at it, esp now that the HE have ASF and loads of armor for less cost, and they made our wand of the wych elm 3 times better or more for the same price

buckero0 wrote:
Are you feeling bad because of the outdated WE book? I get a little depressed every year or so when I pick it up too. I've pretty much stopped looking at it, esp now that the HE have ASF and loads of armor for less cost, and they made our wand of the wych elm 3 times better or more for the same price

No. I'm just ill.

Sorry, was going to answer before but got distracted.

You are lacking punch + defence. You cannot play defensively when the main part of your army has little/no save. Any army with any semblance of ranged firepower will have this army whittled down very quickly. Also remember that you are only guaranteed a single wood, your wood, playing a matching banking on have another wood on the table, let alone in a favourable position doesn't sound like a reliable plan to me.

Not sure on hero load outs, it seems you want to be in a deathstar of wildriders, I can work with that. Drop sword of might, 20 pts for something you get on the charge for free? Let alone you can't take it! Take either wood elf spears, both are good. I'd go with killing blow one + annoyance of nettlings. Seed of rebirth if you really want protection, but I don't really see it as needed. Your deathstar will work around your beastmage. SBOH on highborn will shred almost any other character in a challenge, pans pelt would help if you think you will get hit back (not often) and wildform is pivotal for keeping strength up on turn 2 of combat or to be sure there only will be one turn.

Leave BSB bare accept for the 10 point magic bow and hail of doom arrows, if he is in combat ( meaning your archers are in combat) you have already lost. Wildrider noble is best with just the dawn spear, if he kills a single model then the enemy are at -1 to hit, greatly decreasing the amount of 5+/5++ saves you are forced to make. Amour isn't necessary really. You really have no need for spellsinger, give weaver the moonstone, you don't need her for anything.

As said eagles are better redirectors, but i'd suggest a unit of 6 waywatchers. Since your best unit is going to be deep in enemy territory, have watchers there would be great support. Get a flank charge off, force him to turn around to fight them and charge riders into rear and just generally be annoying.

For the record, wood elves aren't a bad army. I will say it again because not everyone gets it. WOOD ELVES ARN'T A BAD ARMY. They are easily winnable, they just need more though then others.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Not sure on hero load outs, it seems you want to be in a deathstar of wildriders, I can work with that. Drop sword of might, 20 pts for something you get on the charge for free? Let alone you can't take it! Take either wood elf spears, both are good. I'd go with killing blow one + annoyance of nettlings. Seed of rebirth if you really want protection, but I don't really see it as needed. Your deathstar will work around your beastmage. SBOH on highborn will shred almost any other character in a challenge, pans pelt would help if you think you will get hit back (not often) and wildform is pivotal for keeping strength up on turn 2 of combat or to be sure there only will be one turn

Can't fit in a magic spear and a level 4.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Leave BSB bare accept for the 10 point magic bow and hail of doom arrows, if he is in combat ( meaning your archers are in combat) you have already lost. Wildrider noble is best with just the dawn spear, if he kills a single model then the enemy are at -1 to hit, greatly decreasing the amount of 5+/5++ saves you are forced to make. Amour isn't necessary really. You really have no need for spellsinger, give weaver the moonstone, you don't need her for anything.

The BSB is going with the wild riders, and the characters are going defensive. As for the spellsinger, she is there because I don't have the points for it on my level 4.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
As said eagles are better redirectors, but i'd suggest a unit of 6 waywatchers. Since your best unit is going to be deep in enemy territory, have watchers there would be great support. Get a flank charge off, force him to turn around to fight them and charge riders into rear and just generally be annoying.

For the record, wood elves aren't a bad army. I will say it again because not everyone gets it. WOOD ELVES ARN'T A BAD ARMY. They are easily winnable, they just need more though then others.

I will probably drop a unit of dryads for a pair of eagles, but I doubt waywatchers will do much in my local meta. Due to there being a VC player, and empire player and a WoC player. Against the VC, it's all T4 and can get back up, the Empire player can just shoot them off with ease, and the WoC player has all the armour. I have also scrapped making this a competitive army, I'm doing it to show it can be done, although it won't be a strong list.

How can't you fit it in? Your making extra points off dropping singer and dryads to eagles, a 15pt upgrade is well within what you can buy. Spellweaver has 100pts to use, dispel scroll is 50(?) and while I don't have me, is moonstone over 50pts? Doubt it, but maybe.

How can characters go defensive? I think the best save there is a 3+ on the noble. Not worth all those points spent on the unit when you could make it far more killy. Also the dawn spear IS a defensive upgrade, make the enemy -1 to hit is actually a lot better then having 2 3+ saves in a unit.

By not having points do you mean the upgrades don't fit into the 600pt max for lords? Is each lord 300 each? Because it just seems much better for the spellweaver to be riding with the wild riders rather then a singer. Her magic is pointless, your paying so much for someone to carry the moonstone when it could be carried by weaver.

Heck, those 3 armies are what waywatchers do best against. Against VC it means his vampire will never leave his unit for risk of being killing blow-ed and expensive blood knights and black knights will get picked off if he takes them. Also a psychological effect of having a unit behind the enemy. WOC have one unit you can't handle, knights. Waywatchers can handle knights, and more importantly are effectively unchallenged. No shooting and smart moving means they will never be charged and they can lead a unit on a wild goose chase. That's a win in my book. Empire has 1+ Knights as well, a lot of war marchine which are prime targets for them and any shooting at them is practically lost. Say empire gunman turns to face and shoot at waywatchers. They hit on 6's followed by 4's! (4's to hit, -1 moving,-1 skirmish,-1 waywatchers) so any shoot short of a HBVG is wasted. Waywatchers work in any meta, you just have to work out if its a damage role or a psychological one each game.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How can't you fit it in? Your making extra points off dropping singer and dryads to eagles, a 15pt upgrade is well within what you can buy. Spellweaver has 100pts to use, dispel scroll is 50(?) and while I don't have me, is moonstone over 50pts? Doubt it, but maybe.

I' can't fit in a magic weapon and the moonstone on my level 4 due to the points limit.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How can characters go defensive? I think the best save there is a 3+ on the noble. Not worth all those points spent on the unit when you could make it far more killy. Also the dawn spear IS a defensive upgrade, make the enemy -1 to hit is actually a lot better then having 2 3+ saves in a unit.

Defensive characters mean that they can take a punch and not die. A -1 to hit, on a unit that won't engage, unless I choose to, and even then, I will be buffed up isn't that important.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
By not having points do you mean the upgrades don't fit into the 600pt max for lords? Is each lord 300 each? Because it just seems much better for the spellweaver to be riding with the wild riders rather then a singer. Her magic is pointless, your paying so much for someone to carry the moonstone when it could be carried by weaver.

That is exactly what I mean. I physically cannot get any more upgrades on the lords without going over the limit. And ALL the characters ride with the wild riders.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Heck, those 3 armies are what waywatchers do best against. Against VC it means his vampire will never leave his unit for risk of being killing blow-ed and expensive blood knights and black knights will get picked off if he takes them. Also a psychological effect of having a unit behind the enemy. WOC have one unit you can't handle, knights. Waywatchers can handle knights, and more importantly are effectively unchallenged. No shooting and smart moving means they will never be charged and they can lead a unit on a wild goose chase. That's a win in my book. Empire has 1+ Knights as well, a lot of war marchine which are prime targets for them and any shooting at them is practically lost. Say empire gunman turns to face and shoot at waywatchers. They hit on 6's followed by 4's! (4's to hit, -1 moving,-1 skirmish,-1 waywatchers) so any shoot short of a HBVG is wasted. Waywatchers work in any meta, you just have to work out if its a damage role or a psychological one each game.

Against VC, Waywatchers can kill 2 Black Knights/Grave Guard a turn. With 2 vampires, a level 4, and a level 1, he can bring them back with ease. So I'm not bringing them into that matchup. Against WoC, I struggle with the entire army. Because, as I said, they have all the armour. But I can manage the knights, due to beast magic on the riders. As for the Empire, two banishments, and a hellblaster are pretty good at mopping up Waywatchers. So, if I take them, they will either fail to make an impact on the game or provide free points to my opponents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated the list slighty.

LORDS
Highborn
Wild Rider Kindred
Stone of Crystal Mere
Spear of Twilight
Elven Steed


SpellWeaver
Level 4
Elven Steed
Dispel Scroll
Glamourweave Kindred
Beasts

HEROES
Noble
BSB
Spear
Amaranthine Brooch
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Noble
Armour of Destiny
Spear
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Spellsinger
Steed
Moonstone
Glamourweave Kindred

CORE
20 Glade Guard
Standard and Musician
BoEternal Flame

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard

8 Dryads

SPECIAL
7 Wild Riders
Full Command
Razor Standard

RARE

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

 thedarkavenger wrote:

LORDS
Highborn
Wild Rider Kindred
Stone of Crystal Mere
Spear of Twilight
Elven Steed

SpellWeaver
Level 4
Elven Steed
Dispel Scroll
Glamourweave Kindred
Beasts

Honestly prefer the wand myself, but you are tight on points, so the scroll will have to do, life is better all round, but I assume you are going for a horros bomb?

HEROES
Noble
BSB
Spear
Amaranthine Brooch
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

BSB can't take kindreds iirc

Noble
Armour of Destiny
Spear
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Wild Riders can only take magic spears for magic weapons and magic light armour for magic armours iirc

Spellsinger
Steed
Moonstone
Glamourweave Kindred

CORE
20 Glade Guard
Standard and Musician
BoEternal Flame

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard

Solid amount of archers.

8 Dryads

SPECIAL
7 Wild Riders
Full Command
Razor Standard

Might be worth dropping an archer unit down taking an extra model or two here and then spreading them where you need them.

RARE

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

 Krellnus wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

LORDS
Highborn
Wild Rider Kindred
Stone of Crystal Mere
Spear of Twilight
Elven Steed

SpellWeaver
Level 4
Elven Steed
Dispel Scroll
Glamourweave Kindred
Beasts

Honestly prefer the wand myself, but you are tight on points, so the scroll will have to do, life is better all round, but I assume you are going for a horros bomb?

HEROES
Noble
BSB
Spear
Amaranthine Brooch
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

BSB can't take kindreds iirc

Noble
Armour of Destiny
Spear
Wild Rider Kindred
Elven Steed

Wild Riders can only take magic spears for magic weapons and magic light armour for magic armours iirc

Spellsinger
Steed
Moonstone
Glamourweave Kindred

CORE
20 Glade Guard
Standard and Musician
BoEternal Flame

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard
Musician

10 Glade Guard

Solid amount of archers.

8 Dryads

SPECIAL
7 Wild Riders
Full Command
Razor Standard

Might be worth dropping an archer unit down taking an extra model or two here and then spreading them where you need them.

RARE

Great Eagle

Great Eagle

Wild riders can take normal and magic spears, and normal & magic light armours only. As for life magic, I've found that it does absolutely nothing, especially when beasts is as good as it is.


As for the Wild riders, they are 7 because when the characters go in, they end up being 6 wide and 2 deep.

The BSB can't be a wild rider. The option to upgrade to BSB has a disclaimer of model without a kindred. What is worse, as the Wild Riders are forest Spirits, you have no was to attach a non-forest spirit to them.
In short, it's impossible to put the BSB in with the Wild Riders. I don't think adding fight elves is the way to go. They are too expensive with gear, and when you have lore of beasts and innate magic attacks, you don't really need gear.
The fighting lord and hero you're taking cost as much as 16 more wild riders.


Here's what I would do.
Level 4 wizard, horse, wand of dispelling, lore of beast
Level 4 wizard, dispel scroll, lore of beast.
3 Branchwraiths

20 Glade Guard, standard, musician, flaming banner
11 Dryads with champ (all 3 dryad heroes go here)
6 Glade Riders (meat shield for wizard), musician
6 Glade Scouts, musician (meat shield for wiz on foot)
3x10 Wild Riders, standards and musicians
2 Great Eagles

The 30 Wild Riders provide you with plenty of punch. With 2 wizard lords of beast, you're going to have 2 signatures, and the whole lore.
Having 3 characters in the Dryad block makes it a mini-deathstar should you get anything from beast off. (Savage beast would give the 3 characters a total of 18 S7 attacks, just wild form means the unit kicks out 22 S5 attacks if 6 wide).
Finally, with the double beast lords, you get transformation on your guy on foot.

That gives you 5 serious threats in combat (3 wild rider blocks, branch-star and transformation wiz). That's also a lot of speed. I'd deploy centrally and vanguard to one side or the other.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Wild riders can take normal and magic spears, and normal & magic light armours only. As for life magic, I've found that it does absolutely nothing, especially when beasts is as good as it is.

You realise that AoD isn't a suit of magic light armour right?

 Krellnus wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Wild riders can take normal and magic spears, and normal & magic light armours only. As for life magic, I've found that it does absolutely nothing, especially when beasts is as good as it is.

You realise that AoD isn't a suit of magic light armour right?

Yeah. I also realise that this is getting to be too much hassle for a list that was meant to be kept for fun.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Wild riders can take normal and magic spears, and normal & magic light armours only. As for life magic, I've found that it does absolutely nothing, especially when beasts is as good as it is.

You realise that AoD isn't a suit of magic light armour right?

Yeah. I also realise that this is getting to be too much hassle for a list that was meant to be kept for fun.

Isn't it annoying how army rules make it so much harder to have fun? After all, I want my Treeman to be my BSB, he's big and wavy after all.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Wild riders can take normal and magic spears, and normal & magic light armours only. As for life magic, I've found that it does absolutely nothing, especially when beasts is as good as it is.

You realise that AoD isn't a suit of magic light armour right?

Yeah. I also realise that this is getting to be too much hassle for a list that was meant to be kept for fun.

Isn't it annoying how army rules make it so much harder to have fun? After all, I want my Treeman to be my BSB, he's big and wavy after all.

-Matt

That isn't what I meant. I wanted to right a list for an army that is completely different from the norm. Before I even started that, I had to give up partially, for glade guard. Because Eternal guard die just as quickly and don't have the ranged threat. And it just keeps getting more and more convoluted, and further from my original idea. I'll probably give up on this list and come up with a similar concept using glade riders, and great weapon nobles for the punch.

Here is an 'Unconventional' list like the one you wanted (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517682.page) which also happened to turn into a tactics/comparison topic if I remember rightly Matt ^-^. Take a look maybe, get some good ideas.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

That isn't what I meant. I wanted to right a list for an army that is completely different from the norm. Before I even started that, I had to give up partially, for glade guard. Because Eternal guard die just as quickly and don't have the ranged threat. And it just keeps getting more and more convoluted, and further from my original idea. I'll probably give up on this list and come up with a similar concept using glade riders, and great weapon nobles for the punch.

And when you go with fast cav and hitty heroes, at some point you'll realize that dark elves do it better.

I think you can make the lore of beasts pay off, but you want 2 of them for it to work (which is pretty much all your lord points).
Then once you have the whole lore, you need a good number of heroes for the buffs to work on, which brings you to branchwraiths (cheaper and better than elf heroes).
After that, you just flush out your hitting power and round out the core. It just so turned out I could still squeeze 30 wild riders in, but just as easy could have done treekin and treemen.

IMO wood elf fighting characters are over-priced. After you factor in buying gear to survive, you realize you're blowing a lot of points for very little hitting power; without getting ASF or Hatred for free.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

That isn't what I meant. I wanted to right a list for an army that is completely different from the norm. Before I even started that, I had to give up partially, for glade guard. Because Eternal guard die just as quickly and don't have the ranged threat. And it just keeps getting more and more convoluted, and further from my original idea. I'll probably give up on this list and come up with a similar concept using glade riders, and great weapon nobles for the punch.

And when you go with fast cav and hitty heroes, at some point you'll realize that dark elves do it better.

I think you can make the lore of beasts pay off, but you want 2 of them for it to work (which is pretty much all your lord points).
Then once you have the whole lore, you need a good number of heroes for the buffs to work on, which brings you to branchwraiths (cheaper and better than elf heroes).
After that, you just flush out your hitting power and round out the core. It just so turned out I could still squeeze 30 wild riders in, but just as easy could have done treekin and treemen.

IMO wood elf fighting characters are over-priced. After you factor in buying gear to survive, you realize you're blowing a lot of points for very little hitting power; without getting ASF or Hatred for free.

-Matt

There is that, but I am willing to work it for wood elves, as I play a Dark Elf Infantry and Mounted list. The problem with the mounted list is that, in order to make it work you have to take different buffs to the ones your core need, whereas Glade Guard don't need that many buffs.

HawaiiMatt wrote:


Here's what I would do.
Level 4 wizard, horse, wand of dispelling, lore of beast
Level 4 wizard, dispel scroll, lore of beast.
3 Branchwraiths

20 Glade Guard, standard, musician, flaming banner
11 Dryads with champ (all 3 dryad heroes go here)
6 Glade Riders (meat shield for wizard), musician
6 Glade Scouts, musician (meat shield for wiz on foot)
3x10 Wild Riders, standards and musicians
2 Great Eagles

The 30 Wild Riders provide you with plenty of punch. With 2 wizard lords of beast, you're going to have 2 signatures, and the whole lore.
Having 3 characters in the Dryad block makes it a mini-deathstar should you get anything from beast off. (Savage beast would give the 3 characters a total of 18 S7 attacks, just wild form means the unit kicks out 22 S5 attacks if 6 wide).
Finally, with the double beast lords, you get transformation on your guy on foot.

That gives you 5 serious threats in combat (3 wild rider blocks, branch-star and transformation wiz). That's also a lot of speed. I'd deploy centrally and vanguard to one side or the other.

I love this, but I'm afraid my 4 1/2 power dice a turn average would ruin me. I'd get both big mages on ponies and have glade rider escorts. Don't forget your cluster of radians as well

buckero0 wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:


Here's what I would do.
Level 4 wizard, horse, wand of dispelling, lore of beast
Level 4 wizard, dispel scroll, lore of beast.
3 Branchwraiths

20 Glade Guard, standard, musician, flaming banner
11 Dryads with champ (all 3 dryad heroes go here)
6 Glade Riders (meat shield for wizard), musician
6 Glade Scouts, musician (meat shield for wiz on foot)
3x10 Wild Riders, standards and musicians
2 Great Eagles

The 30 Wild Riders provide you with plenty of punch. With 2 wizard lords of beast, you're going to have 2 signatures, and the whole lore.
Having 3 characters in the Dryad block makes it a mini-deathstar should you get anything from beast off. (Savage beast would give the 3 characters a total of 18 S7 attacks, just wild form means the unit kicks out 22 S5 attacks if 6 wide).
Finally, with the double beast lords, you get transformation on your guy on foot.

That gives you 5 serious threats in combat (3 wild rider blocks, branch-star and transformation wiz). That's also a lot of speed. I'd deploy centrally and vanguard to one side or the other.

I love this, but I'm afraid my 4 1/2 power dice a turn average would ruin me. I'd get both big mages on ponies and have glade rider escorts. Don't forget your cluster of radians as well

That's exactly where I started until I realized that without one on foot, you can't cast transformation, and that's too good to give up.
If you are averaging 4.5 power dice, you should be playing dwarves.

-Matt

I'd be okay with a lvl3 and no transformation. It's too easy to dispel the next turn. I think being in range for all the other spells is where you'll shine ( most the augments are 12" I think). In my experience transformation is the weakest spell in the lore - you have to blow your wad to get it off, and then the rest of your army is weak and frail. I've never had it win a combat for me even as the chimera, but making your wild riders T4 and base str 5 is pretty gross.

buckero0 wrote:
I'd be okay with a lvl3 and no transformation. It's too easy to dispel the next turn. I think being in range for all the other spells is where you'll shine ( most the augments are 12" I think). In my experience transformation is the weakest spell in the lore - you have to blow your wad to get it off, and then the rest of your army is weak and frail. I've never had it win a combat for me even as the chimera, but making your wild riders T4 and base str 5 is pretty gross.

Dude, it's 12+. The bubble Savage beast is a 20+. 12 is pretty easy to hit.
If I've got a skirmishing mage marching 10 around your backfield, him turning into a monster to drop a breath template is a threat you can't totally ignore.

-Matt