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The Death Korps of Kriegs Siege army list has been updated and is available for download at:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/dkksiegelist.pdf

The FW Eldar are being worked on but they don't have a time frame for it yet.

My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

Sorry, but how does that stop you from using the army?

As it is, without building a ccs, and another platoon, the engineers who were my 2nd troop choice cant drill breach..the army is less than 700pts right now so not the end of the world, but un playable until i build n paint more troops and a general or commissar gerneral.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Didnt mean to whine, more shaking a fist for making me paint more rank and file..

Pretty much what we could have predicted given IA12, but it's nice to see it finally be official. I still like the IA12 list a lot more, but the new "no morale checks from shooting" rule is going to be amazing with the standard siege army gunline with 9999999999 artillery units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rustproof wrote:
the engineers who were my 2nd troop choice cant drill breach

TBH this was expected as soon as IA1 over-nerfed the drill. My codex list built around 3x Hades drill veteran squads as my only troops was instantly illegal and I still haven't figured out a good way to replace them. But sadly FW proved that if you whine loudly and long enough you can get something changed, so the days of drill squads as troops are over. Really the only surprise here is that you can still take engineers as troops as long as you don't try to do anything useful with them.

 Peregrine wrote:

rustproof wrote:
the engineers who were my 2nd troop choice cant drill breach

TBH this was expected as soon as IA1 over-nerfed the drill. My codex list built around 3x Hades drill veteran squads as my only troops was instantly illegal and I still haven't figured out a good way to replace them. But sadly FW proved that if you whine loudly and long enough you can get something changed, so the days of drill squads as troops are over. Really the only surprise here is that you can still take engineers as troops as long as you don't try to do anything useful with them.

Actually only one Engineer becomes Elite if taken with the Hades, all the other Engineer squad will still be Troop choices.

So for your example it would be one Engineer squad with a Hades as an Elite choice and the other two Engineer squads as Troop choices that arrive automatically after the Hades shows up.

Yes exactly, stupid waac player whiners..grr lol.

Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

That said, even with the other nerfs to CCS's and Platoons, I'm happy with this update overall, the platoons are still at least useable is not great, and many more units got useable or better.

Darn shame Grenadiers can't have D-Charge anymore.

The lack of Warlord traits and custom orders is sad, otherwise I quite like the update.

EditL Wonder if I should take a Colossus siege mortar, friend o' mine always tries to pull a 2+ cover save bike squad.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

That said, even with the other nerfs to CCS's and Platoons, I'm happy with this update overall, the platoons are still at least useable is not great, and many more units got useable or better.

On the whole there seems to have been a 10 points increase for most units, though the Grenadiers got a 30 points discount.

30pts for the base squad of Grenadiers, 60pts for a full unit of 10. That's huge

 Vaktathi wrote:
30pts for the base squad of Grenadiers, 60pts for a full unit of 10. That's huge

Comparing between the 'old' Siege list and the 'new' Siege list.

'Old' list had Grenaiders base cost of 90 for a squad of 5 with each additional Grenadier being 18 points.

'New' list has Grenaiders base cost of 60 for a squad of 5 with each additional Grenadier being 12 points.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

How is it a detriment even to fluffy lists? I'm trying to understand.
The -2 on the Mishap table sucks and is dumb, but I'm not seeing "useless"... I'd rather have a follow on ability like that than what my Trygons currently have.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

How is it a detriment even to fluffy lists? I'm trying to understand.
The -2 on the Mishap table sucks and is dumb, but I'm not seeing "useless"... I'd rather have a follow on ability like that than what my Trygons currently have.

If the Trygon mishaps, your reserves don't die. The Trygon also avoids mishaps due to enemy units, the Drill gets a chance to kill them, but if it fails and something remains within 1" of the drill when it comes up (which will be a majority of the time if you're using the entrance attack against most things) it then mishaps with the -2 and takes the follow-on unit with it. So you have to generally put it off somewhere where it's safe from DS mishap (and thus waste the entrance attack and likely have the Engineers too far to do anything with their 12" guns and 6" demo charge) and pay half the cost of the squad for the privilege

Artillery are still op as hell I see. Means little chance of them being accepted in normal 40k.

I've never had an issue using them in normal games, leagues, or tournaments around here. Nobody seems to have an issue with S10 barrage eldar artillery with Shrouded or the like

 Vaktathi wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

How is it a detriment even to fluffy lists? I'm trying to understand.
The -2 on the Mishap table sucks and is dumb, but I'm not seeing "useless"... I'd rather have a follow on ability like that than what my Trygons currently have.

If the Trygon mishaps, your reserves don't die. The Trygon also avoids mishaps due to enemy units, the Drill gets a chance to kill them, but if it fails and something remains within 1" of the drill when it comes up (which will be a majority of the time if you're using the entrance attack against most things) it then mishaps with the -2 and takes the follow-on unit with it. So you have to generally put it off somewhere where it's safe from DS mishap (and thus waste the entrance attack and likely have the Engineers too far to do anything with their 12" guns and 6" demo charge) and pay half the cost of the squad for the privilege

The drill gets a STR8 AP1 attack, and d3 STR8 AP2 attacks on a unit. Unless your opponent clumps up (or the drill is significantly bigger than the 3" marker you use to scatter with) you'll be fine most of the time.
Like I said, the -2 on the table is dumb, but I don't think that makes it useless.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Well, sad to see the Hades drills still being more than useless and in fact an outright detriment, even for a fun/fluffy list. If they'd given the Engineers an extra special weapon they might be more useable, but alas, they just look cool.

How is it a detriment even to fluffy lists? I'm trying to understand.
The -2 on the Mishap table sucks and is dumb, but I'm not seeing "useless"... I'd rather have a follow on ability like that than what my Trygons currently have.

If the Trygon mishaps, your reserves don't die. The Trygon also avoids mishaps due to enemy units, the Drill gets a chance to kill them, but if it fails and something remains within 1" of the drill when it comes up (which will be a majority of the time if you're using the entrance attack against most things) it then mishaps with the -2 and takes the follow-on unit with it. So you have to generally put it off somewhere where it's safe from DS mishap (and thus waste the entrance attack and likely have the Engineers too far to do anything with their 12" guns and 6" demo charge) and pay half the cost of the squad for the privilege

The drill gets a STR8 AP1 attack, and d3 STR8 AP2 attacks on a unit. Unless your opponent clumps up (or the drill is significantly bigger than the 3" marker you use to scatter with) you'll be fine most of the time.

Against an AV10 vehicle, you'll pen 35 of 36 times and explode it 50% of the time, meaning on average you'll inflict .4861 explodes results on it, thus more than half the time you'll end up mishaping on an AV10 target. Against an AV14 bastion (what it's supposedly designed to attack) it'll penetrate and inflict an explodes result .2917% of the time, basically meaning it'll mishap about 70% of the time it attacks the type of target it was designed to attack

Shouldn't the Bombard have the same armour value as a Leman Russ? As far as I can tell its got the same stat line as the Colossus (which of course replaced it). I just expected that they would try and differentiate the two. =/

For an artillery heavy list I'm surprised at the lack of self propelled artillery. They included the Bombard, so I would imagine that would give presidence for more tracked units. Just seems odd to me.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Shouldn't the Bombard have the same armour value as a Leman Russ? As far as I can tell its got the same stat line as the Colossus (which of course replaced it). I just expected that they would try and differentiate the two. =/

For an artillery heavy list I'm surprised at the lack of self propelled artillery. They included the Bombard, so I would imagine that would give presidence for more tracked units. Just seems odd to me.

The Death Korps Siege list is based around WW1 era warfare which means static lines, so there isn't any real reason for their artillery to be tracked when its just going to sit there for months/years/centuries on end.

The bombard has retroactively been retconned as the Collossus, they're not differentiated at all anymore, even if the bombard technically has a Leman Russ hull.

That said, the DKoK Siege regiment has always lacked tracked artillery, it's a very first world war trench fighting list with carriage artillery instead of self propelled guns.

Now this is how GW should update their stuff.

Interesting though how they didn't give the Hydra Flakk platform skyfire.

EDIT: Spoke way too soon. They gave the Hydra Autocannon both skyfire and interceptor in the Weapons section.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Now this is how GW should update their stuff.

By leaving all the rules to Forgeworld to do?

 stormwell wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Now this is how GW should update their stuff.

By leaving all the rules to Forgeworld to do?

That would be a start

Seriously though, I mean this sort of update progress. Making a free pdf that works out all the kinks and brings all the codices up to date is a much better system than whatever GW is doing. The erratas tend to be a bit sloppy imo.

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Yep. The Death Rider CS is right under the Death Rider Platoon entry, on page 19 of the PDF.

I believe rustproof is saying that he/she lacks a Death Rider CS.

 Platuan4th wrote:
I believe rustproof is saying that he/she lacks a Death Rider CS.

Gah, reading comprehension fail

There wasn't a CS needed before? So forge world also adds / changes things to the army in their free PDF?

 Vaktathi wrote:
(what it's supposedly designed to attack)

I'm guessing that's in the fluff somewhere...

And that makes it "useless" and "detrimental"? Wow. I'm not sure I have words for that.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
(what it's supposedly designed to attack)

I'm guessing that's in the fluff somewhere...

And that makes it "useless" and "detrimental"? Wow. I'm not sure I have words for that.

From the wiki:

When the Hades is used in a military role it is usually during a prolonged siege, where it serves as a breaching drill that can break into a bunker or through the wall of an enemy fortification.

Source

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Hades_Breaching_Drill

I don't see how S8 AP1 Melta could fail to destroy a vehicle or structure. Unless you roll very badly.
The auto mishap when you fail to destroy a building or vehicle is silly though. You should be allowed to deploy the engineers so they can have a go at the vehicle / building.