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rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
(what it's supposedly designed to attack)

I'm guessing that's in the fluff somewhere...

And that makes it "useless" and "detrimental"? Wow. I'm not sure I have words for that.

It makes it useless and detrimental because it's a very expensive (and relatively fragile) unit that is too dangerous to use in its intended role and way too expensive to be of value if used in anything resembling a 'safe' manner. It costs more than an SM drop pod without any of the safety features and in fact is much more dangerous, for units that are much less capable.

If used in its intended role, it will more often than not Mishap (in fact, far more often typically against bunkers and bastions), which takes the follow up Engineer unit as well, with triple the chance of destruction of a normal unit. If used just as a DS enabler, to be used safely, it must be employed in a manner that its arrival attack cannot be used and at a range such that the engineers will likely be unable to engage the opponent successfully due to their short ranged weapons.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Yep. The Death Rider CS is right under the Death Rider Platoon entry, on page 19 of the PDF.

And is not required to field a death rider platoon. Therefore you can use a platoon made up of a single death rider squad

rigeld2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
(what it's supposedly designed to attack)

I'm guessing that's in the fluff somewhere...

And that makes it "useless" and "detrimental"? Wow. I'm not sure I have words for that.

I'm not sure that a unit being awful more than 50% of the time when used in its full offensive capacity is flabbergast worthy.

EDIT: Anyone else find this list extremely awful? To me this seems much worse than IG in every way aside from the fact that you can take rapier laser destroyers. Every other unit seems like a worse version of IG units, and many units are omitted entirely.

Bobug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Yep. The Death Rider CS is right under the Death Rider Platoon entry, on page 19 of the PDF.

And is not required to field a death rider platoon. Therefore you can use a platoon made up of a single death rider squad

It is not a compulsory hq, hence my gripe...

ph34r wrote:
EDIT: Anyone else find this list extremely awful? To me this seems much worse than IG in every way aside from the fact that you can take rapier laser destroyers. Every other unit seems like a worse version of IG units, and many units are omitted entirely.

well, you can take Rapiers in a normal IG list too actually, they're just BS3 instead of BS4 with a 5+sv crewman instead of a 4+sv crewman.

The big thing this list gets is the ability to ignore 25% morale tests and WS4 (not really that useful) along with expanded Heavy Mortar/Thudd Gun access and better Stormtroopers and Death Riders, in exchange for not getting like half the codex and and lacking much of the rest of the FW lineup (like sabres, tauros, vultures, etc)

Being able to take 12 heavy quad launchers and 9 earthshaker carriages in one army is pretty brutal, especially when you add in the right Space Marine supporting elements.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Being able to take 12 heavy quad launchers and 9 earthshaker carriages in one army is pretty brutal, especially when you add in the right Space Marine supporting elements.

It would be, if it were possible in any realistic points level. But taking all those big guns, and a bare minimum cheapest naked HQ and Troops (2x 5man Engineer units) is over 1500pts. A lot of firepower, but no bubble wrap and no scoring ability and no aegis line or AA for those points.

a triple heldrake list or mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

rustproof wrote:

Bobug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Yep. The Death Rider CS is right under the Death Rider Platoon entry, on page 19 of the PDF.

And is not required to field a death rider platoon. Therefore you can use a platoon made up of a single death rider squad

It is not a compulsory hq, hence my gripe...

Ah I see, yeah that is a bummer, I apologise, I thought you meant you didn't have a death rider HQ and thought it meant you couldnt take death riders

Glad to see this, and good to see they will do the same for eldar corsairs!

Apology not required, we can only settle this in a fight to the death at first light!

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:

Bobug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Bobug wrote:

rustproof wrote:
My dkok counts as army is now illegal due to lack of death rider ccs..grr.

I'd just like to point out that if you read that death rider platoon entry you'll find you are wrong

Yep. The Death Rider CS is right under the Death Rider Platoon entry, on page 19 of the PDF.

And is not required to field a death rider platoon. Therefore you can use a platoon made up of a single death rider squad

It is not a compulsory hq, hence my gripe...

Ah I see, yeah that is a bummer, I apologise, I thought you meant you didn't have a death rider HQ and thought it meant you couldnt take death riders

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

I was mainly referring to the idea of a list maxing out on artillery, too few points to cover any other bases and Waveserpents sporting 3+/4+ cover saves will quickly overwhelm the earthshaker batteries ability to act as AT before something like Wraithguard get delivered. A list with a moderate amount of artillery will of course generally be much more balanced and capable.

Being as cheap as the artillery is for points i would feel somewhat cheated if i couldnt at least get 3 big static guns in on a 1500pt list. Do we see viable defence options with ADL and Cyclops demo charges nearby to deter small elite raiding parties? i will be bubble wrapping with infantry squads to see how that goes.

The list doesn't look as interesting as the Assault Brigade, which is just fun incarnate. Has some effective options, but it's basically reliant on affordable Grenadiers and cheap/plentiful artillery. The only advantage over the Assault Brigade is the Artillery, which while quite effective, doesn't entirely counteract forward command tanks, respawning platoons, special orders and so on.

While I'm a little disappointed with this update I'm totally loving how the siege list will incorporate into the assault list as allies. Taking a thudd gun unit as ally elites or infantry combined squads will free up more slots for the bigger guns in the assault list.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

I was mainly referring to the idea of a list maxing out on artillery, too few points to cover any other bases and Waveserpents sporting 3+/4+ cover saves will quickly overwhelm the earthshaker batteries ability to act as AT before something like Wraithguard get delivered. A list with a moderate amount of artillery will of course generally be much more balanced and capable.

a 1500 point list can fit in nine earthshakers with 825 points to spare. So you can safely spam cheese with plenty points left over for bubble wrap.

Taking flyers in 3s is nice too. 9 Avenger Strike Fighters, yummy.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

I was mainly referring to the idea of a list maxing out on artillery, too few points to cover any other bases and Waveserpents sporting 3+/4+ cover saves will quickly overwhelm the earthshaker batteries ability to act as AT before something like Wraithguard get delivered. A list with a moderate amount of artillery will of course generally be much more balanced and capable.

a 1500 point list can fit in nine earthshakers with 825 points to spare. So you can safely spam cheese with plenty points left over for bubble wrap.

And if you're taking enough troops too function properly in addition to your HQ, then those Earthshakers are probably also having to pull double-duty as Anti-Tank as well with not much worth mentioning for AA either. Such a list will work really really well against a footslogging marine army, but Emperor help you if you're facing triple heldrakes, drop pods, 2+sv spam, Wave Serpents, etc.

I'd rather have some Siege Guns in the mix, probably 2 batterries with one carrying Bastion Breacher shells.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

I was mainly referring to the idea of a list maxing out on artillery, too few points to cover any other bases and Waveserpents sporting 3+/4+ cover saves will quickly overwhelm the earthshaker batteries ability to act as AT before something like Wraithguard get delivered. A list with a moderate amount of artillery will of course generally be much more balanced and capable.

a 1500 point list can fit in nine earthshakers with 825 points to spare. So you can safely spam cheese with plenty points left over for bubble wrap.

And if you're taking enough troops too function properly in addition to your HQ, then those Earthshakers are probably also having to pull double-duty as Anti-Tank as well with not much worth mentioning for AA either. Such a list will work really really well against a footslogging marine army, but Emperor help you if you're facing triple heldrakes, drop pods, 2+sv spam, Wave Serpents, etc.

Na I could easily fit some laser defence thingies in there for long range anti tank, plus the troops will have melta. Fact is that the average player wouldnt go near such a list since it'd be auto lose.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

mech eldar list (wave serpents gooooo) would eat such an army very quickly.

I did fine-ish with a triple Earthshaker carriage list vs an Eldar mech one, tbh.

I was mainly referring to the idea of a list maxing out on artillery, too few points to cover any other bases and Waveserpents sporting 3+/4+ cover saves will quickly overwhelm the earthshaker batteries ability to act as AT before something like Wraithguard get delivered. A list with a moderate amount of artillery will of course generally be much more balanced and capable.

a 1500 point list can fit in nine earthshakers with 825 points to spare. So you can safely spam cheese with plenty points left over for bubble wrap.

And if you're taking enough troops too function properly in addition to your HQ, then those Earthshakers are probably also having to pull double-duty as Anti-Tank as well with not much worth mentioning for AA either. Such a list will work really really well against a footslogging marine army, but Emperor help you if you're facing triple heldrakes, drop pods, 2+sv spam, Wave Serpents, etc.

Na I could easily fit some laser defence thingies in there for long range anti tank, plus the troops will have melta. Fact is that the average player wouldnt go near such a list since it'd be auto lose.

I really think you're grossly overreacting to the earthshakers, quite a lot.

Lets see here, 9 earthshaker platforms, lets say 6 rapiers (which are *shorter* ranged than normal Lascannons), and mandatory HQ, lets say a CCS so you can give some orders and no upgrades, that lets you basically just fit in 2 minimum sized platoons for bubble wrap if you're giving them melta guns, no aegis line and no quad gun.

I still hope you don't intend to face Deathwing, Drop Pods, multiple Heldrakes, anything able to abuse Shrouded/cover rules (nurgle daemons, eldar), etc with that list think you're going to have an easy time of it. It's not walk-over list, but it's by no means an auto-win army either unless your opponent is trying to footslog expensive MEQ units across the table at you. It's going to have issues taking and holding objectives, dealing with lots of 2+sv' (especially if they have stormshields) as well as dealing with anything that gets close, and those troops aren't hard to removed from the table.