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I was hoping they would do Ksons ...

Give us our own rules making it worth taking ksons ...

Cultists with special Tzeench flavor based on # of psykers in play .... maybe improve that 6+ from MoT.

Kson Sorcerers who dont get crappy Tzeench powers?

Giving Ksons something other then a banner of uselessness. (maybe one that grants relentless or dumps slow and purposeful or just letting us overwatch!)

Allowing us to take other Tzeench marked HQs ... Demon Prince?

Special kson Termie rules?

Sorcerer Brother Hoods rules? Allow Multiple Sorcerers to be taken per HQ slot

Will be interesting, but I was wondering ... isn't GW making the supplements direct only? If so I heard that they are not allowing the supplements that are direct only in tournaments... so I could be wrong on that just what I heard (I don't play tournaments and I only know for sure that the flier one as a direct sale from GW... so maybe its just that book?

Wonder if the book will be used to help tie in the Heresy Era stuff from Forge World ... might be cool...like some use of older stuff that they Forge World is doing now

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:
Will be interesting, but I was wondering ... isn't GW making the supplements direct only? If so I heard that they are not allowing the supplements that are direct only in tournaments... so I could be wrong on that just what I heard (I don't play tournaments and I only know for sure that the flier one as a direct sale from GW... so maybe its just that book?

Wonder if the book will be used to help tie in the Heresy Era stuff from Forge World ... might be cool...like some use of older stuff that they Forge World is doing now

GW doesn't really run tournaments so that's pretty much meaningless.

Wow.

If ths is true, I can't wait for the Space Wolves Supplement for Codex Space Wolves...

 insaniak wrote:
Wow.

If ths is true, I can't wait for the Space Wolves Supplement for Codex Space Wolves...

13th Company making a comeback could be nice.

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:
Wonder if the book will be used to help tie in the Heresy Era stuff from Forge World ... might be cool...like some use of older stuff that they Forge World is doing now

Not going to happen. The only GW Studio publications that havw ever had Forgeworld stuff in it has been Apocalypse stuff. Even to the point of GW redoing some FW kits in plastic when they wanted them in a codex (ala the Trygon), and they've said that's not happening anymore (since it cannibalises their own range).

You won't be seeing rules for Forgeworld stuff in a supplement outside of Apocalypse.

Maybe they'll give Land Raiders some actual options.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe they'll give Land Raiders some actual options.

Hahaha. I know right? Chaos land raiders are the worst.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Wow.

If ths is true, I can't wait for the Space Wolves Supplement for Codex Space Wolves...

13th Company making a comeback could be nice.

It certainly would be, be I'd fear we'd just get great company books instead.

I'm a little baffled by the choice of BL tbh, but hell if it gives more options to chaos, I can't get too upset about it, anything to stop codex chaos bland v.2.0

I love how people are 'baffled' by this. As if anyone could possibly have a different favourite chaos legion than their own

 BryllCream wrote:
I love how people are 'baffled' by this. As if anyone could possibly have a different favourite chaos legion than their own

Favourites have nothing to do with the confusion here.

Black Legion getting actual, dedicated cultists with serious firepower and training? Again: Not something I would be opposed to.

- These would be better served in an Alpha Legion supplement imo. Nowhere in the BL fluff (that I recall) does it suggest that they have better trained and equipped human followers than other legions. However, the AL used well trained and equipped humans even before the heresy (if you take the Legion novel as canon anyway).

I think the reason for the BL supplement is to give them more access to cult units like they used to have in previous codexes.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I'm trying to think of what units or FoC changes could really make a Black Legion supplement work. Aside from taking every cult troop as Troops instead of Elites (which Abaddon already does) and taking a Terminator command squad, I'm coming up dry. Interesting to see though. I'm selfishly hoping for an Iron Warriors one, but I'm not holding my breath.

You are talking about taking cult units as troops in the fluff right? Because Abby can only take Chosen as troops :-\

 insaniak wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
I love how people are 'baffled' by this. As if anyone could possibly have a different favourite chaos legion than their own

Favourites have nothing to do with the confusion here.

Then why the confusion?

 BryllCream wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
I love how people are 'baffled' by this. As if anyone could possibly have a different favourite chaos legion than their own

Favourites have nothing to do with the confusion here.

Then why the confusion?

Because the BL are the go-to generic CSM for games workshop. Hence all the "Ultramarines supplement jokes"

And they're giving that apparently popular army a bunch of additional fluff and some new scenarios. Makes perfect sense.

They'll probably get some new rules also, but it seems fairly obvious that the rules aren't the focus or bulk of the content if the Iyanden book is any indication.

The confusion is between what these books are and what some people want them to be.

 RunningWithScissors49 wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
I love how people are 'baffled' by this. As if anyone could possibly have a different favourite chaos legion than their own

Favourites have nothing to do with the confusion here.

Then why the confusion?

Because BL are the go-to generic CSM for games workshop. Hence all the "Ultramarines supplement jokes"

And that prevents them having their own fluff/wargear/warlord traits why exactly?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:


The confusion is between what these books are and what some people want them to be.

This.

Black Legion is a very, very odd choice in my opinion. It would be like doing an Ultramarine Supplement. I'd have thought that the Red Corsairs (or whatever Huron's fleet is called) would have been a far better choice.

Oh BryllCream, you blowhard!

Seriously, most of us have a vision in our head about what GW should be doing with supplements and what GW is really doing with supplements is no where near that. We want a book with different army lists for off-shoots of the main codexes (White Scars, Alpha Legion, Catachan, Speed Freaks, etc.). GW wants to put together a $50 book without doing too much work that offers almost no variety to the game. Sure, it contains fluff so some people may be happy.

 Manchu wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I'm ok with CSM supplements, Black Legion seems rather...pointless, the basic codex *IS* the Black Legion list.

This.

What the hell, GW?

Aye. Same with Ultras. Back in the day the space marine codex was codex: ultramarines. Perhaps this going to be things like extra special characters, ultramarine centered missions from the background. I hardly see new units coming though.

 The Shadow wrote:
Black Legion is a very, very odd choice in my opinion. It would be like doing an Ultramarine Supplement. I'd have thought that the Red Corsairs (or whatever Huron's fleet is called) would have been a far better choice.

The Black Legion really could use the chance to get some 30 pages of fluff focused on them and some rules to make them more than just the legion painted on the box. What do we really know about about the Black Legion besides Abbadon and the Black Crusades? Ultramarines have a ton of special characters with rules and models. Can people name a BL character besides Abbadon in 40K? (not 30K)

Ultramarines supplement does have it's uses as well. The 5th Edition book was meant to be Codex: UM before it changed to be Codex: SM again. Thus the heavy UM fluff and characters. There's about 15-20 pages of fluff and pictures that are soley dedicated to Ultramarines, which could be pulled out of the main book and put into a supplement, giving room for other chapters (Iron Hands, Raven Guard) to get some much needed attention. An UM supplement could also do things like bring back the tyrannic War vets, who disappeared between 4th and 5th.

MajorWesJanson wrote:
The 5th Edition book was meant to be Codex: UM before it changed to be Codex: SM again. Thus the heavy UM fluff and characters. There's about 15-20 pages of fluff and pictures that are soley dedicated to Ultramarines, which could be pulled out of the main book and put into a supplement, giving room for other chapters (Iron Hands, Raven Guard) to get some much needed attention.

That is stupid. 5th Edition is by far the least UM-specific Space Marine Codex ever published. Have you even looked at the 4th Edition Codex by McNeill?

All the UM-specific units from 4th were "un-UM-ized" for 5th.
The amount of non-UM characters and fluff was expanded disproportionally
The UM-logo/sigil on EVERY page and EVERY unit-artwork was removed

The sheer amount of non-UM-stuff and non-UM-focus in the 5th Edition was the greatest near-slaughter of the UM-Holy-Cow in GW's history.

Perhaps this release will coincide with a new Abaddon sculpt? The current model is still one of the nicest, but it is a little dated.

I think doing the BL supplement is actually a very good choice for GW

1) In fluff terms, the Black Legion are really the only organized chaos space marine force that can field entire armies with attached Dark Mechanicus war machines, navy vessels, and hordes of daemon allies. It still has a near Heresy style organization. Abaddon is a "general of armies." He can mobilize the Black Legion to fight in multiple theaters (planets/sub-sectors). The Emperor's Children and Night Lords are warbands. They are represented by the appropriate codex choices well enough. The Iron Warriors can mobilize a large campaign force but can only prosecute one theater at a time. I think C: CSM is actually heavily supportive of the Iron Warriors anyway. The new daemon engine models (to include the new infantry models) fit their fluff better than any other legion. The Death Guard (rather Plague Marines) are pretty much deployed by one battleship, the Terminus Est. Typhus is a "general" like figure and deploys his forces like an army. So, the Black Legion are very open to have new supplemental rules and a new warlord table. They really need rules that make them function like a well-coordinated army and not just a large force of disparate parts like they do now.

2) GW can fill the entire supplement with illustrations of their huge BL army. There's a huge amount of art out there as well.

3) All the codices are pointing to the start of the 13th Black Crusade. Why not start the show by featuring Abaddon and his legion.

4) Somebody also mentioned ADB's BL novel is coming out soon too.

 Oaka wrote:
Perhaps this release will coincide with a new Abaddon sculpt? The current model is still one of the nicest, but it is a little dated.

That's a lovely thought, but I sincerely doubt it. GW very, very rarely redoes special characters. Aside from Farsight, who was a metal/plastic hybrid kit, GW haven't resculpted a special character in a long, long time. I mean, I guess you can make a case for Asmodai, but he wasn't even in the previous Dark Angels codex so I'm not sure how much water that argument holds. The past two supplements haven't come out with any new models (Eldar released with the usual amount of models, no extras for Iyanden) so I wouldn't expect anything. At the very least you can use Forgeworld's excellent Abaddon model.

How exactly do supplements work?

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
Perhaps this release will coincide with a new Abaddon sculpt? The current model is still one of the nicest, but it is a little dated.

That's a lovely thought, but I sincerely doubt it. GW very, very rarely redoes special characters. Aside from Farsight, who was a metal/plastic hybrid kit, GW haven't resculpted a special character in a long, long time. I mean, I guess you can make a case for Asmodai, but he wasn't even in the previous Dark Angels codex so I'm not sure how much water that argument holds. The past two supplements haven't come out with any new models (Eldar released with the usual amount of models, no extras for Iyanden) so I wouldn't expect anything. At the very least you can use Forgeworld's excellent Abaddon model.

Humm.. might have to check forge world out for that Abaddon Model for my Black Legion ... did not realize they had one but have not been to that site for awhile. Glad you mentioned that

 marrowick wrote:
How exactly do supplements work?

They literally supplement what's in the army codex. The Eldar supplement for instance has new Warlord traits and some FoC alterations. You don't necessarily need the supplement but the supplement does need the codex as it just changes a few options.

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
Perhaps this release will coincide with a new Abaddon sculpt? The current model is still one of the nicest, but it is a little dated.

That's a lovely thought, but I sincerely doubt it. GW very, very rarely redoes special characters. Aside from Farsight, who was a metal/plastic hybrid kit, GW haven't resculpted a special character in a long, long time. I mean, I guess you can make a case for Asmodai, but he wasn't even in the previous Dark Angels codex so I'm not sure how much water that argument holds. The past two supplements haven't come out with any new models (Eldar released with the usual amount of models, no extras for Iyanden) so I wouldn't expect anything. At the very least you can use Forgeworld's excellent Abaddon model.

Humm.. might have to check forge world out for that Abaddon Model for my Black Legion ... did not realize they had one but have not been to that site for awhile. Glad you mentioned that

The Chaotic one's been sold out for years, however the Heresy Era one's of course in stock. =/

 gorgon wrote:
And they're giving that apparently popular army a bunch of additional fluff and some new scenarios. Makes perfect sense.

They'll probably get some new rules also, but it seems fairly obvious that the rules aren't the focus or bulk of the content if the Iyanden book is any indication.

The confusion is between what these books are and what some people want them to be.

The confusion is why they aren't doing one for one of the more popular legions, and nearly every legion is more popular than BL. I can't think of a time I've seen a BL army in the P and M threads, or anyone talking about their own BL army. IW, KSons, WE, AL... Have seen them plenty of times. I've seen Sons of Horus and even Luna Wolves more times than BL.