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 ShatteredBlade wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Since the Black Legion is pretty much the ONLY legion that still operates in some form or shape in the 41st Millennium as writing by the "history-rundowns" of GW studio-publications go, it is arguably the only Legion that would make sense for a supplement, especially for an "historical-missions-type"-supplement similar to Iyanden.

All other legions are either entirely disbanded (World Eaters), better known for their ex-members who are at odds with the actual (remnants of the original) Legion, than the Legion itself (Thousand Sons) or "represented" as a Legion in 40K with minuscule groupings from Black Library/Forge World publications that barely have enough members for a 5-man tac squad (Night Lords).

A Black Legion supplement, arguably, could re-create a Black Crusade or some similar event of Abaddon's more recent 40K history in a series of consecutive missions much like Iyanden did the pre-Tyranid, fight-the-Tyranids, post-Tyranids story-arc for Iyanden.

Still would've vastly preferred Red Corsairs... oh well.

Not one to argue but what about my Word Bearers?

Yeah!

Bring it on!!!

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
So, now instead of waiting for a year, you can wait for two until your FOM codex comes out ala Necrons.

Sure wish they would just shore up the game and come out with updates per every couple of months and keep the game going, instead of this change the game every year and expect it to continue.

I see this as just another reason for a price increase.

If anything, GW you are predictable.

What are you even saying here? What does it contribute to anything? What does this have to do with flavor of the month codices coming out, and with what frequency? Your post makes absolutely no sense in any context, and just sounds like echo chamber whining for the sake of echo chamber whining. Please, share any "Finecost" or "Finecrap$t" jokes you have while you're at it, they're not tired yet either!

Also, I'm pretty sure new codices every couple months qualifies as "updates every couple of months" of some sort. The game itself changes every five years, maybe more. In other words, think before you post.

What do you mean "what do I mean"?

Step off.

50.00 a book, you can get 3 or four or so books, just to start with.

Other armies have 0.

I'll break it down for you barney style, I don't care.

Be more rude, next time, clyde. You didn't quite get insulting enough.

Sorry Grot 6, but Brother SRM has a point.
It seems like you are complaining just for the sake of complaining.
"So, now instead of waiting for a year, you can wait for two until your FOM codex comes out ala Necrons." This makes no sense. If they are releasing supplements in addition to codexes, then wouldn't that actually decrease the amount of time you have to wait for the FOM codex? And are you saying that is a bad thing? Because that is obviously a good thing, for players and for GW. Why wouldn't you want people to have the option to play the army they want?
"Sure wish they would just shore up the game and come out with updates per every couple of months and keep the game going, instead of this change the game every year and expect it to continue. " Again, what? Isn't that what they have been doing? For the last decade? I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong on this one man. Games Workshop has even increased the speed of updates. So again, why is that a bad thing? People have complained for a long time about the leisurely update pattern, and I'm sure that you were one of them. If you weren't, then you obviously aren't playing our game.
"I see this as just another reason for a price increase. If anything, GW you are predictable." Now this is where your bias shows. The supplements have had nothing to do with price hikes, and are completely optional with a decent amount of fluff. How is that predictable? It's not even remotely, not from GW. And as noted earlier, none of this really applies to the discussion on the black legion supplement in any constructive manner. You haven't even given GW a chance to impress you, you've already made up your mind that you are going to hate it. That's just plain ignorant, and a bad stance to to take. Nothing attracts more haters than haters my friend.

Personally, i don't play Chaos Marines, but they are pretty stupidly cool. So i hope the supplement reinforces the "go for the throat" mentality that the legion prized during the heresy. Special rules for hunting down characters or warlords perhaps? Also, i hope the fluff isn't more "chaos good, empire bad" stuff. we get plenty of that nowadays. Would be pretty sweet if Horus's giant mace thing was a relic you could take. That could open up a lot of modeling opportunities.

Oh good. I wasn't the only one that had no idea what he was trying to say.

So this has gone rather off topic.
The closer this gets the more excited I am. Black legion is a great start point, with the whole black crusade thing as well.

MarsNZ wrote:
I'm really facepalming at "codex CSM is codex BL"

One character from BL, no BL cult troops in undivided armies. BL isn't 'vanilla' CSM.

Yeah, it drives me crazy that people keep saying Black Legion are just vanilla Chaos. They are anything but. These are the Sons of Horus, legion of the "greatest" Primarch. The fact that they are one of the few unified traitor legions left, and easily the most influential, should show that they are not typical Chaos Marines.

I have to wonder if the focus will be on cult marines as troops or enhanced non-cult marines? I'd prefer the non-cult route since allowing cult marines as troops won't change anything, it will still be nothing but plague marines and heldrakes, which will take away from any future legion supplements. Maybe BL will have something like the Space Wolves codex has, where they can double up the HQ on the FOC.

I have a soft spot for the old Lunar Wolves and more info on the Black Crusade could be cool, just not $50 cool.
I do hope they put out a 1kSons book that actually fixes the unusable 1ksons troops and actually makes Tzeentch, you know, the masters of the warp and all, have powers that aren't completely useless.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I have a soft spot for the old Lunar Wolves and more info on the Black Crusade could be cool, just not $50 cool.

Farsight Enclave is available as a $32 epub/mobi so I expect the same for future supplements. Much more reasonable and accessible.

 Tyranidcrusher wrote:


Yeah!

Two posts below the one you quoted.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Yeah, it drives me crazy that people keep saying Black Legion are just vanilla Chaos. They are anything but. These are the Sons of Horus, legion of the "greatest" Primarch. The fact that they are one of the few unified traitor legions left, and easily the most influential, should show that they are not typical Chaos Marines.

BL are on the cover of most of the Chaos books (2nd ed, (3rd edition was some weird red terminator), 3.5, Eye of Terror, 4th ed, (6th ed was from that stupid new army)), and they're a large legion with a lot of variety so are easily represented with the codex- that makes them pretty vanilla from a game standpoint.

Every chapter or legion or whatever has something that makes them special, regarding background, but that doesn't mean they need special rules. Similarly, not having special rules doesn't mean the army isn't narratively special. As much as everyone hates the Ultramarines, in the setting the Ultramarines are everyone's faves, yet they don't get anything special representing it other than some characters.

As another example, I loved playing Death Guard for years and think they have a cool backstory, but that doesn't mean I think they need a supplement to represent them, for instance.

Codex Chaos does a decent job representing all of the chaos armies I know except:
-Night Lords (40k has very rarely done anything that represents hit and run/terror tactics very well, and it would probably require significant changes to the rules to do that for codex CSM)
-Red Corsairs (no access to later generations of imperial gear, and no allies patch... wish they had brought back Huron's old rules involving being able to take regular marines)
-Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors can all get decent representations of their forces through allies patching their lists.

Any word on when this is coming out??

2x210 wrote:
A Black Legion supplement, thats, thats something......

It's kinda like if Codex Space Marines gets a Ultramarines Supplement, but that being said...

exactly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zweischneid wrote:
Since the Black Legion is pretty much the ONLY legion that still operates in some form or shape in the 41st Millennium as writing by the "history-rundowns" of GW studio-publications go, it is arguably the only Legion that would make sense for a supplement, especially for an "historical-missions-type"-supplement similar to Iyanden.

All other legions are either entirely disbanded (World Eaters), better known for their ex-members who are at odds with the actual (remnants of the original) Legion, than the Legion itself (Thousand Sons) or "represented" as a Legion in 40K with minuscule groupings from Black Library/Forge World publications that barely have enough members for a 5-man tac squad (Night Lords).

Alpha Legion
Iron Warriors
Word Bearers
any of these would have been better and they the latter 2 fight as large warbands or legions

 Zweischneid wrote:

Still would've vastly preferred Red Corsairs... oh well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I'm ok with CSM supplements, Black Legion seems rather...pointless, the basic codex *IS* the Black Legion list.

This.

What the hell, GW?

WTH?

On BoLS there is a pic of WD, witch it mentions the Black Legion suppliment. It says go to the iBook store.

Since it also mentions the GW site, my guess is when the WD is Officially out, that is when it's for sale.

I would provide the link from BoLS, but not sure if it's allowed or not so on the safe side, I will not. Just go to BoLS forum for 40K rumours/news and you will see it there for those interested to see what little is shown.

Neronoxx wrote:
A Whole bunch of stuff, that pretty much boils down to= I don't understand why your having such issues with GW, they are the cat's meow and can do no wrong...

No.

Your reading too much into it and aside from putting on the rose tinted glasses, are missing the point.

GW is not going to impress me, anymore ever. They lost that ability when they decided that they wanted to be a "Model Company" and lay on the cooperation money grubbing for no other reason then they can, instead of making even a half hearted effort at putting out a solid, top notch war-game, that all I need to do is to get a box of army men, maybe a reasonable book with some interesting choices, and be able to play a game without getting into a drama-fest of epic proportions, mortgage your house, sell your wife off, and maybe a kid or two, just to afford to stay current. Pretty models? Wiz bang new lickies and chewies, sure they are, but that doesn't help us out here that have repeatedly and consecutively been taken for the proverbial ride on every and any way that they can. Stuffs too darned expensive, your now supposed to play apocalypse type games for a regular game, along with buy ungodly amounts of extras just to keep up with the jones. Haters being thrown around pretty loosely, so lets just ride that train.

I'm an unvalued consumer that paid his dues, played for over 10+ years and have come way past the point of being scatted on for pretty much anything they think they are doing that is an "Improvement." They didn't do anything new in over 5 years now, and aside from the bigger stuff, there aren't very many new things there that are going to help some kid outright just up and get in and play the game. 700.00+ is the price tag that I'll put out there generously as to what I'm looking at over in the back room. 3000 or so IG, got a 1500 pt Necron, and maybe a few others of the same. 3000+ Orks, that I really like, from RT era to newish AOBR stuff, that boils down to unused because the "Codex" is languishing in wishville land. Since the last couple of years, I've still got a couple of the armies, 1 of Tyranids, and 1 a small tau force that I painted up for laughs, and never really got into- because they pushed the sales of mecha stuff, rather then substance.

I'm going to go on out there and just say I paid my dues.

What have they done to impress me in the first place? I am the one that they disappointed on pretty much every turn except to predictably push for the hard sell and try to get just one more dollar for that much of a less of an effort.

They come out with a flavor of the month codex, instead of just up and shoring up issues, or just darn adding the new stuff and leaving the stuff that was fine. MY last codex was a case in point. Orks. I picked up the last Ork codex, and it ALMOST was as close to making me satisfied and being as happy as I could have been- Then they deep six the darned game in as fast as they could within that next year. Makes sense to you, I guess. ME? No, I don't think I was very happy at all, along with the extra curricular gak that came along with that. I am not a real fan of sixth edition, I think it sucks.

They just came out with the Chaos space marine codex and it was as uninspiring as usual. Unchaotic space marines is what one or two people that I was discussing on the look of them. The codex came out for the sake of pimping the very same... FLAVOR OF THE MONTH armies that GW ,as they always flood the market, until the very next one, where they repeat the process. They aren't even trying anymore, and aside from a few lickies and chewies, They do every thing they can to just pimp sales, and dictate you to go buy new stuff.

The fliers still suck, by the way. They haven't even fixed that yet. BUT you need to go out and get yourself a gaint gak flavored cake, to go with your "New" army... ies.

" ... If they are releasing supplements in addition to codexes, then wouldn't that actually decrease the amount of time you have to wait for the FOM codex? And are you saying that is a bad thing? Because that is obviously a good thing, for players and for GW. Why wouldn't you want people to have the option to play the army they want? "

They already had the supplement. It didn't, nor does it need a 75.00 hardbacked book.

Now you buy it for another 75.00. Seventy five bucks. Along with the 50.00 fifty bucks for Chaos codex, and more then likely the "New chaos one." A, B, or C... ( because you know, you don't just have the one chapter of chaos out there...) Then theres the demons, that we won't even start with. OR the ten + unit of grot cultists, that are just generic cannon fodder, that you still can't buy in packs of 10, ....

That is along with the ... "New Templates" "New Cards" "New Lickies and Chewies" specific to Apocalypse... How and again, is this a good thing? feth it.... 50.00, 75.00, 25, 30, 15.00, 15.00, maybe GET CUTE FOR 115.00, THEN The supertanks... for not 80.00, not 100.00, but over 140.00.

I played IG, by the way. My armies have around 100+ guys to begin with. Painted them over the space of 8+ years. 100+ is on the low side, I have three plus or so that don't have a use anymore.

On and on you both go, and where you stop-- you both just don't. Instead, you resort to "haterz gonna hate", or some other lame meme, and try to degrade my position for no other reason then your a clever child.

My issues with GW withstanding- You make less sense then you claim I did.

To the both of you two kool kidz, I say- GW can impress, but chooses not to. They have not shorn up the game, all they do is wait long enough, crank out another higher priced starter set and promise to do better, next codex/ edition.

You say I'm ignorant? ( I should inject something clever in here and counter insult you two chones, or something, but the point would be lost on you.) I'm outright justified in my disappointment, and Your rather long drawn out presumptuous insult doesn't give you much room to maneuver.

Explain, aside from the rose colored glasses how you think that over 300+ additional spending makes a tabletop war-game "Improved"?

By the way, chief- that addition from earlier is up to the tune of over $465.00. Aside from the point of fact that you have to update your army if you want to stay current. 465.00, before you even start an army- Just to play a... Supplement.


You know the worst thing about it? I WANT to come in one day and say, "You know? GW has a pretty good game. I really enjoy the way that I can have a good time with it..."

Instead, almost to a T, I have to sit back and see how a bunch of bra salesmen have highjacked the game and turned everything I liked about it into something bad.

Whats wrong with- "Hey, want to play a couple of squad on squad actions, and maybe get out characters some advancements, and build on that?" OR- "We got some new units out for the new year, heres a couple of adds in PDF for you to slip into the codex that came out in the beginning of the year, enjoy!"

Lawn cutting money, or Mortgage the house, you decide.

That is one epic rant.

Anyways, do we have a date yet for the release?

Sisters....where art thou?

The WD's are getting ragged...

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are getting supplements eventually.

The elite unit entries in the core codex don't necessarily reflect World Eaters, just Khorne Berserkers, for example.

The Legion lists will have unit entries for Berserker/Plague/Rubric/Noise Terminators, unique warlord traits, and some fun wargear stuff.

ANother anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:The mono-god legions will NOT be getting a supplement. It's felt they are well enough reflected in the codex. Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers were given as Examples of Chaos Legion Supplements.

Yeah, those two sources say the exact opposite.

 Kroothawk wrote:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are getting supplements eventually.

The elite unit entries in the core codex don't necessarily reflect World Eaters, just Khorne Berserkers, for example.

The Legion lists will have unit entries for Berserker/Plague/Rubric/Noise Terminators, unique warlord traits, and some fun wargear stuff.

ANother anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:The mono-god legions will NOT be getting a supplement. It's felt they are well enough reflected in the codex. Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers were given as Examples of Chaos Legion Supplements.

Yeah, those two sources say the exact opposite.

interesting , very interesting (strokes beard)

 Kroothawk wrote:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are getting supplements eventually.

The elite unit entries in the core codex don't necessarily reflect World Eaters, just Khorne Berserkers, for example.

The Legion lists will have unit entries for Berserker/Plague/Rubric/Noise Terminators, unique warlord traits, and some fun wargear stuff.

ANother anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:The mono-god legions will NOT be getting a supplement. It's felt they are well enough reflected in the codex. Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers were given as Examples of Chaos Legion Supplements.

Yeah, those two sources say the exact opposite.

Can't they all get supplements...

 Kroothawk wrote:

Anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children are getting supplements eventually.

The elite unit entries in the core codex don't necessarily reflect World Eaters, just Khorne Berserkers, for example.

The Legion lists will have unit entries for Berserker/Plague/Rubric/Noise Terminators, unique warlord traits, and some fun wargear stuff.

ANother anonymous source on faeit212 wrote:The mono-god legions will NOT be getting a supplement. It's felt they are well enough reflected in the codex. Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Word Bearers were given as Examples of Chaos Legion Supplements.

Yeah, those two sources say the exact opposite.

I expect they'll appear in the allies supplement.

Maybe a new Ab's model god it needs one.

 aceface wrote:
Maybe a new Ab's model god it needs one.

The other two supplements haven't come with new models, and I don't see why this one would. Unless supplements are the focus for a month's releases, I doubt we'll see anything new. Now, if two or three supplements came out in one month somewhere down the line and they had new models taking up the typical 3 plastic kits, character blister, and Finecast dudes, that would be cool.

 Sasori wrote:


Can't they all get supplements...

I think there's gonna be plenty of supplements floating around. Depends which models they want to sell next Although I'm a bit worried about the 'supplement plague'. GW has been poor when it comes to keeping the full codexes updated and the armies balanced - now they start doing supplements that further muddy the waters.

 Grot 6 wrote:

Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me Me

So basically your issue is that GW is the worst company in the world because they dont cater to your wishes? Aw schucks, i wish i was that special.
Seriously, if you need to post an entire long rant to "justify" why they can no longer impress you, then why are you here? For the sole need of letting everyone else know you dont enjoy the game?
Sure their prices are high. Too high, i wont even try and defend them there. But like it or not, they still release some of the nicest models to date on a regular basis. And guess what bub? A playstation 4 is $400 bucks. The games are $60. A game is roughly 5-10 hours long, and usually only interesting once or twice. I would rather pay $400-600 for a interactive hobby than a static one. And oh wait, the game companies still don't care about their audiences(largely.) Every 6-7 years consoles rotate as well. Magic the gathering rotates EVERY YEAR. you usually don't hear them complain about it.
I'm not white knight for GW. All i'm saying is, times are changing. Day 1 DLC works, its why they do it.
And a supplement is not $75. I have no idea where you got that number. The hardbacks are $50 and the digitals are $33.
TLDR; Grot 6: other people than you exist in this world, and a company will never cater to an individual customer. I sorely hope you realize this.

I never understood why people come to a forum page about a GW product to tell everyone how they don't like GW.
Black Legion FTW!

I don't really see how the Black Legion warrant a codex of their own. As well as being the generic Chaos marine paint scheme for some time, alongside artwork and fluff. They don't do anything that cannot be done with the Chaos marine codex, nor are they really unique in any way. I wouldn't say however any of the Chaos legions really needs an expansion however.

Unsure whether I'll pick this up.

Hopefully it gives the background in sufficient detail, and doesn't pretend that the 13th Black Crusade hasn't happened. Info presented from the point of view of Abadon's trusted lieutenants- the Triad, would be awesome.

I think I'd be disappointed if most of the book dealt with the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus. I'm interested in the post-Heresy Black Legion, not 30K.