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So my tau are said and done, I do not feel like starting a whole new army anytime soon(Just ally forces)
But Im looking at Warmachine, mainly because im sure i cant get to 25 points before the end of the year, and cheapness.
With my B-day coming up(21st, YAY) I think i might ask for the stuff. Im thinking of asking for the Khador starter box, and the heavy warjack kit.
Im just curious, how would you guys recommend I start?

Well, what type of army are you looking to play? That would give us an idea of what direction to help you expand. Also, what facets of Khador drew your interest in the first place?

Have you played the game before? If you're on a tight budget the very first thing you should probably do is go to a store or club that plays Warmachine and see if anyone will demo the game for you. Privateer has people called Pressgangers who help out with community building and running local events.

If you're trying to spend as little as possible, I'd suggest finding out what sort of playstyle you're likely to want, then picking a list that will support that playstyle and building towards it. The battlebox may not be the best place to start in many cases.

Alternatively, if someone wants to start the game with you (and wants to play Menoth) you could look into the two-player Warmachine battlebox. It's about twice the price of a single battlebox but comes with what's basically two battleboxes plus a full unit of heavy infantry that you may or may not like.

But getting some play experience and maybe watching some games at larger points levels might help you pinpoint what you want to do. You sort of need to have a goal in mind or you'll run the risk of ending up with a bunch of disparate units that don't really work very well together.

The other approach is to buy things with reckless abandon but keep in mind that, while most units in Warmachine have a use in some list, you can't just throw anything into a list and have it work.

So, more information! You need it to know what you want, we need it to help you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I should mention Journeyman Leagues as well. They're a sort of league you can play in (so they'll probably have an entry fee) where the army you can use is heavily restricted to help new players get into the game. Usually the points values of the games go up slowly as the weeks go on, over six weeks or so. You might find that a good way to get into the game and that will probably use the battlebox, though league rules vary so check first. It would suck to end up like that guy in the other post who's apparently stuck playing his poor battlebox while other people aren't restricted by it.

Ah Khador my first WM love.

You come for the Jacks but stay for the infantry.

Khador is a truly combined arms force. Most of our casters work best with 1 or 2 jacks.

I would say the battle box is a good way to start. Then flesh out to 15 points with a unit of Widowmakers.

Has their summer sale started yet? Last year I got the Summer Sale Khador box which was 10 winter guard, 5 widowmakers, standard bearer, captain, and the starter with Sorcia and two Jacks, as well as the rulebook. Full 25pt army, $125.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
The battlebox may not be the best place to start in many cases.

I disagree. While many people don't end up using much of it later, new players should pick up the battle box and play it, play it, play it.

Get in as many battle box games as you can until you're sure you have a good feel for the basic rules. Then play MORE of them just to reinforce it.


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 timetowaste85 wrote:
Has their summer sale started yet?

Started a month or so ago:

http://store.privateerpress.com/summerbundles2013.aspx

I'm not a big fan of them this year as it's just "Here's our plastics!" rather than any real thought put into the list like past years. Also, no Merc or Minion sets because they lack a starter. Then you get a choice of rule book or Forces book and 2 10th Anniversary Dice.

For Example: Khador is the Battle Box, Clam Jack kit, and WG Rifles. Every single one is Starter, plastic heavy(2nd chassis version for the WM ones), plastic unit(except Cryx and Retribution, because they don't have one yet).

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Well, what type of army are you looking to play? That would give us an idea of what direction to help you expand. Also, what facets of Khador drew your interest in the first place?

Mostly the look. And im looking to play a jack heavy army.

Shooty or Choppy Jacks?

Karchev does both well running Jack heavy, but he's a bit more finesse(and squishy) than he seems at first glance. The Karchev Battleship is popular(Karchev with Behemoth and 2 Destroyers) if you wanna run shootier. If you wanna run Choppier, The Karchev slingshot with Behemoth or Beast-09 is nicely beat face, but you need to remember to keep Karchev's rear nice and covered.

The Man with the Ham(Harkevich) doesn't do too badly with shooty Jacks, either, thanks to Broadside, but I wouldn't really call him a Jack Caster otherwise(sadly, Karchev is really the only Jack Caster Khador has).

You could always run pVlad with Bezerker spam (6 of them)

or you could use the new cryiss army, got the book and they can go pretty jack heavy then most other armys ( exept mabye cygnar with jack marshals everywhere )

Khador can run a couple of jacks well, but only in rare cases do they run several. Usually most of the work is done by infantry. If you are willing to have only one or two heavies in the spotlight at the time they will be a fine faction for you. If you have a strong desire to have multiple jacks on the field all at once they are not the faction you are looking for.

 Platuan4th wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Has their summer sale started yet?

Started a month or so ago:

http://store.privateerpress.com/summerbundles2013.aspx

I'm not a big fan of them this year as it's just "Here's our plastics!" rather than any real thought put into the list like past years. Also, no Merc or Minion sets because they lack a starter. Then you get a choice of rule book or Forces book and 2 10th Anniversary Dice.

For Example: Khador is the Battle Box, Clam Jack kit, and WG Rifles. Every single one is Starter, plastic heavy(2nd chassis version for the WM ones), plastic unit(except Cryx and Retribution, because they don't have one yet).

It's the WGI, not the Rifles, which is one of the most suggested and fielded infantry units Khador has. Of all this years deals, I think Khador is easily tied for the best (with Protectorate). You get the ability to build all three of the non character jacks that pop up in a lot of lists (Juggernaut, Destroyer, Spriggan), you get Sorscha which is one of the best caster's in the faction, and you get a unit that you will field in a LOT of lists. Add in the WGI UA, and Kovnik Joe, and a War Dog ($35ish at retail) as add on purchases and you're set to play 25 point games with the battlebox.

 Dais wrote:
Khador can run a couple of jacks well, but only in rare cases do they run several. Usually most of the work is done by infantry. If you are willing to have only one or two heavies in the spotlight at the time they will be a fine faction for you. If you have a strong desire to have multiple jacks on the field all at once they are not the faction you are looking for.

you could always run butcher and his jack spam army

there are 2 and 1/2 ( e butcher is random so i count him as a half ) that can run alot of jacks,

cygnar can spam jacks thanks to their obserd amount of jack marshals

im not familiure with merch casters but they have alot of jack marshals as well

but cryiss can have aot of jacks due to their focus savings when you switch to cryiss'co insurence

Oh well, not a big fan of cygnar, nor other factions.

Based on my experiences with Khador (which admittedly are a bit limited, as I play Cygnar and Mercs, along with Legion for Hordes), I would recommend starting out with either Harkevich or Karchev, as they seem to be the two closest things to jack casters that Khador has access to. Of the two, Karchev seems to be the most fun to play (he's a giant frigging warjack-man and he has spells to help his melee jacks lay out the beatings), but he also seems to be a bit difficult to run as he is a very large target and is pretty easily susceptible to getting bogged down by infantry and the like. On the flipside, Harkevich seems to be a bit more consistent in his results and abilities, but from what I've seen he can't run quite as many jacks as Karchev, and those jacks he works best with tend to be ranged ones.

I'm not sure if any of that helped, but it's the best I've got.

According to the guys over at Chain Attack trying to run Karchev as a jack caster is a trap. Apparently you take 1-2 jacks and then just have him camp on all his focus so that he has insane armor. He's pretty much useless to support anything in your army except to provide a big threat and potential tow-slingshot action in the late game when the opponent can't handle it.

Then again, I have no idea if this is accurate. I have pretty much no knowledge about the finer points of the game's strategy, but their assessment of Forge Father Syntherion (they play a battle report then rate the casters) seemed a little...lacking...to me, so maybe there's other things to be said about Karchev too.

Whatever you say, you can't deny he's a pretty cool model.

 dementedwombat wrote:
According to the guys over at Chain Attack trying to run Karchev as a jack caster is a trap. Apparently you take 1-2 jacks and then just have him camp on all his focus so that he has insane armor. He's pretty much useless to support anything in your army except to provide a big threat and potential tow-slingshot action in the late game when the opponent can't handle it.

Then again, I have no idea if this is accurate. I have pretty much no knowledge about the finer points of the game's strategy, but their assessment of Forge Father Syntherion (they play a battle report then rate the casters) seemed a little...lacking...to me, so maybe there's other things to be said about Karchev too.

Whatever you say, you can't deny he's a pretty cool model.

The guys at Chain Attack are apparently idiots. Karchev ideally wants 3-4 jacks, as Tow lets you drag three at a time and both Unearthly Rage and his feat both scale incredibly well with additional warjacks (Unearthly Rage is worth 4 focus per melee jack it effects, assuming no focus on them). Heck, Side Arms doesn't work AT ALL unless you're using multiple warjacks. Add on top of that his complete inability to support troops and a decent contingent of jacks is essentially mandantory.

Also note that running lots of warjacks doesn't actually prevent Karchev from playing as a super solo. If anything, it just gives him additional options on turns where he isn't just being a target.

I can totally accept that. From what I heard throughout the podcast (Apparently that's the appropriate term for it. I call it a glorified mp3 file) these people were a little easy going in their assessment:

"here we have ground zero. You cast this on yourself and push infantry away...it also says at the end of the description 'you will never cast this with karchev'"

"Sidearms...yay, +1 defense on Khador jacks!"

"his feat? I've seen better spells... I've seen better upkeep spells...I've seen better spells on his spell list (all 3 people chiming in). All this stuff is great, if they were on a solo that could give them out for free."

Here's a link if anyone is interested. You can listen to the file or else just click the link to go with a forum post that shows lists and pictures (no descriptions though)

http://www.chain-attack.com/2013/06/episode-106-karchev-vs-syntherion/


That's the only episode I've listened to (since I was looking for information about the Convergence) but I might keep them around for entertainment, without taking their strategy too seriously.

If there is a reason to shy away from Karchev early on it is his complexity. Man in the machine is a rule with a lot of nuances. (for instance he is neither warrior nor warjack and can heal one system with focus but mechanics repair the rest)

I agree Harkevich and Butcher are probably better starting casters, along with pVlad. I also believe the two-player box is still a good buy for any new khador player as long as you get the rulebook in your half. You get some basic jacks and an infantry unit that is a bit more forgiving with beginner mistakes. due to their durability.

I think as long as hotsauceman understands his jacks will be the problem-solvers rather than the front line and is willing to accept a combined-arms build he'll have a great time learning the game and finding what direction to take his collection in.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I can totally accept that. From what I heard throughout the podcast (Apparently that's the appropriate term for it. I call it a glorified mp3 file) these people were a little easy going in their assessment:

"here we have ground zero. You cast this on yourself and push infantry away...it also says at the end of the description 'you will never cast this with karchev'"

"Sidearms...yay, +1 defense on Khador jacks!"

"his feat? I've seen better spells... I've seen better upkeep spells...I've seen better spells on his spell list (all 3 people chiming in). All this stuff is great, if they were on a solo that could give them out for free."

Here's a link if anyone is interested. You can listen to the file or else just click the link to go with a forum post that shows lists and pictures (no descriptions though)

http://www.chain-attack.com/2013/06/episode-106-karchev-vs-syntherion/


That's the only episode I've listened to (since I was looking for information about the Convergence) but I might keep them around for entertainment, without taking their strategy too seriously.

The trick about Sidearms is not that it's +1 defense on Khador jacks: It's that your little tow group is now DEF 12 on the Warjacks and a whopping DEF 15 on Karchev. It tends to be fairly cornercase as it removes Tow when cast, but if you're turtling up (say, on an objective) DEF 12 forces enemy warjacks to boost or only hit half the time (assuming MAT 6). If your opponents are boosting to hit your Warjacks, they're probably not killing them in one turn.

Ground Zero is definitely not a spell you're going to cast a lot. It's occasionally handy to unjam Karchev and charge something tasty, but basically requires your opponent to have tried to jam your caster in the first place, which is fairly unlikely unless you're super-soloing. Also occasionally handy to clear out tightly packed infantry: Average dice will kill shield walls handily, and following up with axe to face will deal some serious damage. I've actually used it before to deliver towed warjacks behind an opponent's front line to get at a warlock playing a bit too far forward. So yes, it's very corner case, but it's definitely not useless.

is tow used for anything else other then side arm?

Tow essentially gives three warjacks +8" of movement turn one, and on any turn where Karchev starts nearby a warjack you can greatly increase its threat range. It also provides ranged models the ability to move up the field while still getting the aiming bonus. I typically have it running a lot more than Sidearms, especially when I can upkeep it for free with Wishnailer.

 Laughing Man wrote:
Tow essentially gives three warjacks +8" of movement turn one, and on any turn where Karchev starts nearby a warjack you can greatly increase its threat range. It also provides ranged models the ability to move up the field while still getting the aiming bonus. I typically have it running a lot more than Sidearms, especially when I can upkeep it for free with Wishnailer.

people that are being towed can still fire? and how do they get a +8 bonus movemnt?

Walk within two inches of a warjack. End movement with back arc facing the enemy. Place warjack in B2B in back arc. Warjack activates, forfeits movement to aim, and fires. Done.

oooooooh. i never throught of it like that.. im an idiot XD

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Well, what type of army are you looking to play? That would give us an idea of what direction to help you expand. Also, what facets of Khador drew your interest in the first place?

Mostly the look. And im looking to play a jack heavy army.

Than you picked the wrong faction.

Khador is not a faction that runs tons of Jacks. You typically run 1-2 Jacks in a Khador army. The rest is Infantry.

There are a few lists that have more jacks than normal. Karchev is one of them. He usually runs 3, but that's because of Tow.


Khador is the faction of 1-2 really tough warjacks and tons of infantry.


As for what to buy. To start off with, ask for the Khador battlebox and a unit of Winterguard plus Kovnik Joe. You'll have 2 solid warjacks and the winterguard deathstar.

If you really want to run tons of jacks(3+) you should look at Menoth or Convergence instead of Khador.

or the new cryiss, an all robot army of doom

 jbsnv wrote:
or the new cryiss, an all robot army of doom

Convergence is Cyriss.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 grayshadow87 wrote:
Well, what type of army are you looking to play? That would give us an idea of what direction to help you expand. Also, what facets of Khador drew your interest in the first place?

Mostly the look. And im looking to play a jack heavy army.

Than you picked the wrong faction.

Khador is not a faction that runs tons of Jacks. You typically run 1-2 Jacks in a Khador army. The rest is Infantry.

There are a few lists that have more jacks than normal. Karchev is one of them. He usually runs 3, but that's because of Tow.


Khador is the faction of 1-2 really tough warjacks and tons of infantry.


As for what to buy. To start off with, ask for the Khador battlebox and a unit of Winterguard plus Kovnik Joe. You'll have 2 solid warjacks and the winterguard deathstar.

If you really want to run tons of jacks(3+) you should look at Menoth or Convergence instead of Khador.

Ok, Well I still love the jacks, But I love most of the infantry. How are Greylord outriders(I have a thing for calvary) I got myself a decimator yesterday. Im going to get some bit to make a marauder. Then when i get the battlebox I can have 4 different jacks.

The Outriders are a lot of fun. With their sprays, they can slaughter infantry and fall back outside of charge range. Not terribly accurate, but their sprays ignore most DEF buffs, and with the Vlads (either Signs and Portents or Hand of Fate) they're scary accurate.

The Decimator isn't my favorite jack at the moment (it's a focus hog), but once Andrei comes out it'll probably be a go-to for me. The Marauder is an amazing jack in my opinion, and has some great movement shenanigans it can pull.