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 WhiteRoo wrote:
I was referring to the burning oil. That mostly means the gate is immune to assault or attack.

A number of models are immune to fire, and any high VY models, many of the front line brute melee troops that are going to be assaulting gates. Hamsters, Badgers, Sand Guard, etc have a high enough VY that they have a 50% chance to shrug off Fire during the charge, and then just destroy it on the following Normal Melee phases, never triggering it again. The Gate is far from immune, but does encourage weaker units to attack your walls, and the low AR bonus discourages you from placing many models on it instead of walls.

In the end, it comes down to personal choice, and making tough decisions about your enlistment choices.

Maybe just I think it's not a good idea to take an 50% chance of setting my troops on fire.

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Maybe just I think it's not a good idea to take an 50% chance of setting my troops on fire.

And that's a personal play style. Some of us might have no problem sending cute little animals to their fiery death, or might take enough siege engines to take down tricky parts of your opponent's fortifications.

We make the rules as balanced to a wide variety of players, and then they pick and choose how they wish to use those models and rules in their game.

Last time I deployed a cannon it was destroyed before I was able to reach it. Turns out five arrows can take out a cannon from 25" no problem. And that is still the case.

Come to think of it if you do the math, one arrow does two damage and bows can quick nock. So, one archer deals 4 damage to a wall in a turn, and that is guaranteed since you auto hit the fortifications. A tower has 15 VY, 10 AR and threats crits and luckys as normal hits. That means there is 25 points of damage you have to deal, Seven archers can do that.

Those towers are truly made out of cardboard. If your army can access 5 food units with bows, no fortification can stop you.

The question is what happens if a tower collapses under your feet?

 WhiteRoo wrote:
Last time I deployed a cannon it was destroyed before I was able to reach it. Turns out five arrows can take out a cannon from 25" no problem. And that is still the case.

Come to think of it if you do the math, one arrow does two damage and bows can quick nock. So, one archer deals 4 damage to a wall in a turn, and that is guaranteed since you auto hit the fortifications. A tower has 15 VY, 10 AR and threats crits and luckys as normal hits. That means there is 25 points of damage you have to deal, Seven archers can do that.

Those towers are truly made out of cardboard. If your army can access 5 food units with bows, no fortification can stop you.

The question is what happens if a tower collapses under your feet?

My question is, why would you deploy a cannon where you could not reach it turn 1, or use it turn 1 I.e. placing it in a place that your models can start deployed in b2b with it?

And those 7 archers are firing at the wall instead of your squishy units. And once a fortification has been destroyed, it's still useful. It still counts as cover, unlike those 7 archers, who become useless once killed.

I lost initiative This was when I didn't had any forest pieces so I set up a cannon in a way I can fire it effectively in turn one. The Asigaru activated first.

Except if they are units in the tower, and maybe a siege weapon. If the tower goes down I suppose units on it die and the siege weapon gets destroyed.

I actually has to roll to hit the units on the top to kill them. Taking the tower down requires no roll at all, and hopefully gets the job done. That ruin is also a cover for me but it's not a tower for my opponent anymore.

miskatonicalum wrote:Vandalands - Ah, the Battle Ball, part hilarity, part horror. The altered rule no longer requires your squad to be sitting next to the trebuchet, you hold them in reserve, keeping them safe from attacks. This is an excellent way to get your hamsters downfield, and softens up your targets. As they ambush following the attack, your Hamster squad will get the drop on your opponent as well. Just don’t aim too far, or the extra deviation rolls could ruin you.

Altered rules sound cool . The battle ball aka hamster ball is one of the best things about being a Vandalands player.

 RiTides wrote:

miskatonicalum wrote:Vandalands - Ah, the Battle Ball, part hilarity, part horror. The altered rule no longer requires your squad to be sitting next to the trebuchet, you hold them in reserve, keeping them safe from attacks. This is an excellent way to get your hamsters downfield, and softens up your targets. As they ambush following the attack, your Hamster squad will get the drop on your opponent as well. Just don’t aim too far, or the extra deviation rolls could ruin you.

Altered rules sound cool . The battle ball aka hamster ball is one of the best things about being a Vandalands player.

I fear no stinking hamsters in balls, for my cat is a proven hamster hunter (RIP Raskolnikov)

He must not have been in a hamster ball... having owned these in the past, I can say with some certainty that they can be made quite cat-proof. Drives them crazy, too

 RiTides wrote:
He must not have been in a hamster ball... having owned these in the past, I can say with some certainty that they can be made quite cat-proof. Drives them crazy, too

No he wasn't

Rascal as he was known amongst hamster kind was living a life of luxury in his cage when my cat pushed it off the table he was on and onto the floor. Rascal ran for his life and my cat caught him

I love my cat, but I miss my hamster :(

What happens with the models on a wall/tower/gate when that assault terrain gets destroyed?

I can't find this in the book.

Atm, nothing. When the assault terrain/fortifications are destroyed, any crew manning the assault terrain/fortification bails out I.e. nothing happens to them.

Is it planned to leave it like that? I'd suggest it to be mentioned in the book either way.

What is the plan now the main rules are finalized? Are we going to see the Cult soon?

I was reading the latest changes for my Vandalands army and I really like them.

Cult is going into 'closed beta' as it were. It will see a release when we have the minis in to make Warbands for it.


Anything particular changes from Vandalands stand out?

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Galen wrote:

The mantlet, trenches, siege tower, and barricades all sound like fun, but I don't know any good ways to represent them on the board. I guess just cut up card works to designate trenches. Barricades can be built or purchased from some minis companies. Has anyone come up with creative ideas for modeling these?

Lockark made a great list of companies that make these various things:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/539463.page

I've been meaning to get around to updating that thread with more content. I feel kinda bad how long I've put it off.



But yah. The Campaign and seige rules is one of the things that originaly drew me to brushfire. It's such a brilliant game for campaigns.

 miskatonicalum wrote:

Anything particular changes from Vandalands stand out?

Ordenstaat rats now getting rerolls against siege weapons, which is great. I personally like the Dishonor Guard rats, just because noone can touch the Warlord while they are with him, but last time the poison immune Ordenstaat rats shut down the Kunoichi completely.

The Valkyr may now use it's crossbow in melee, which is good because they can't hit anything in range and I have the tendency to roll ones when charging with my Valkyrs.

The Shrew Hussars getting york pistols now, which is awesome. This makes their sword obsolete so I'd suggest that to be removed from their profile.

I see the Warlord's boons now doesn't grants that much price reduction than it did previously. It would be probably better if his Mechanized Mayhem would reduce the gold instead of the lumber, but maybe it would be too good. You could buy mercs in gold. On lumber, not too many things.

The new Sky Marines look awesome with their overpowered shotgun and they work differently than the Shrews.

There should be an upgrade for the Warlord that puts him into a Valkyr so you could build an all-valkyr army.

Monsters, the staple opponents of rpgs. This week’s Visiting Hours will continue the unit breakdown and build ideas from the previous Class entry for Endless: Fantasy Tactics.

Barghest
Available as a summon, the Barghest is a well rounded close combat monster. With Burn on every basic attack, the ATK 3 can get some extra damage against even high DEF enemies if they get that one success through. Paired with Devour, the Barghest has decent survivability for a 1C model.

Setup Ideas
Hunting Hound
Taking Lithe and Pounce gives the Barghest a 8 Square threat range on any turn. If you target weaker enemies, the Stop[1] will also keep them out of the fight against your more important models. As Pounce moves the Barghest up those 3 squares, it can keep the momentum going on a following turn, harassing another enemy target, or use a basic attack on their first victim, getting a Burn[1] on them after the Stop effect goes away.

Beastmen Engineer
One of several ‘token droppers’ in the monster section, the Engineer has a wider selection of tokens to drop than the Laborer counterpart. Depending on if you face Mundane or Magical opponents, your choice of Trap to drop should change up. Of course, either will work well in most circumstances, against a Sorcerer, a Drain Trap is the better option, and against the Knight, a Spike Trap flat out ignores their armor. On the command side, Rogue is a great ability when focusing on placing Traps. The free movement provided by the ability helps counteract having to sacrifice your Move or Act Phase to drop a Token. Also note that many of the Engineer’s abilities refer to Ally Tokens, or Adjacent Tokens, letting your Laborers place your Spike Traps frees up the Engineer to do the upgrades.

Setup Ideas
Dungeon Master
There are a lot of fun trap manipulation tools available to the Engineer, where the selection comes down to being able to only take one action a turn. Caustic Coating is the lesser of two upgrade options,requiring the ATK 1 to succeed before applying Burn, and only to models not immune, while Sharp gives a flat ATK 2 upgrade. Toss is best used without bothering to upgrade the traps, as unlike Magnetize, Toss does not trigger the trap moved by it. With Magnetize, Upgrade two or three traps before using it to create a wall of damage. If lined up right, you can get them all to trigger at once against a single target dealing 6 dice of unblockable damage. Ouch.

Treasurer
Taking after the Chemist, this Engineer takes Last Drop and Hidden Loot, Rogue as its focus. Mostly the Engineer is going to rely upon their fellow party members to take down enemies, but use Rogue to get near weakened enemies so they can be the first to pick up their Loot Tokens. Once the Engineer is rolling in Item cards, they’ll have trouble getting rid of them with a 5+ chance to keep them. Consider building some party members simply as item mules so the Engineer can ‘avenge them’ by using their dropped items. Remember that Equip items stay with a model, so just take Consume/Break items on those mules.

Beastmen Laborer
If you’re looking to create choke points, or divert enemies away from your vital models, a Beastman Laborer is a great, cheap way to defend objectives or table areas. They are also great supplements to Engineers, able to Lug, or Upgrade traps so the Engineer can keep performing Magnetize.

Setup Ideas
Surprise Trapper
Secret Passage only allows two uses before you’re out of MP, but the sheer movement capacity allows the Laborer to quickly jump to other Objectives along with providing defenses in those locations. Once there, using Sharp Upgrade will soften up any models trying to topple the Laborer from that location.

Demonite, Gargoyle
The Gargoyle is a well rounded model and has a great selection of passives. Just remember that Sync is only useful if you are taking other Demonites with it. Beyond those passives, choosing between the Act commands is a tough decision. Void Harvest is a great choice when facing MP heavy enemies like Sorcerers. Crash Land is a great way to keep Melee models away from your squishier party members. When fighting over objectives, Aether Lock can help the Gargoyle survive punishment while contesting an objective on the last few turns. That ability also works well with Crash Land or Swoop, using the pseudo-movement abilities to get around the Stop effect.

Setup Ideas
Rocky Wizard
Stone Crest gives a great Basic Attack to the Gargoyle, and its usefulness is muted if you take other ATK commands. Void Harvest and Bell Tower give the Gargoyle great flexibility in who they can attack, and do some devastating effects when they are not pummeling someone like a Pugilist.

Winged Monstrosity
With a JMP of 4, the important feature of the Winged passive is for the Gargoyle being able to ignore enemy models. With it, you’ll want to take Crash Land and Possess. The extra movement provided by Crash Land lets the Gargoyle hunt down weaker models, and use Possess to keep their own HP up. Avoid Fire or Stone Crest, as the extra damage could outright kill a model instead of allowing the Gargoyle to use Possess.


Dragon, Dark
With a Cone 3 basic attack, the Dark Dragon is a dangerous creature, and the 3C design means they get all 6 of their Commands. So there are no setup ideas, but still thoughts on way to operate them: Though the Dragon has an ITM of 0, they can still take Loot Tokens from their fallen foes, Chemists or Engineers are great targets for the Hoarder ability. With only a 1 MP cost, Take Off is an effective way to move the Dark Dragon up the table quickly, moving an amazing 12 squares in a single turn.


Dragon, Light
The opposite of the Dark Dragon, the Light Dragon actually heals with it’s basic attacks. This makes it a great Support unit, able to make ATK 3 heals every turn. Just be careful when you use it, as the Cone is not a Safe attack, and can heal your opponents as well.


Gel Warrior
The Core ability on both the Warrior and Wizard can be used in many interesting ways. Reflect on what other models you take with the Gels, as Imprint can really change how you play.

Setup Ideas
Bouncy Guard
Bounceback and Density create a great deterrent to attacking the Gel Warrior, letting you put a few DEF 4 models next to objectives, or in front of your weaker casters.


Gel Wizard
With a high base MAG, the Gel Wizard is a cheap alternative to Sorcerers, but far less flexible in their spell list.

Setup Ideas
Bouncy Caster
Conductive really deters other MAG users from attacking the Gel Wizard, because a good roll or two could kill the attacker. The choice between Aquablast and Freeze is difficult to make. With only a MOV of 3 means any Range is needed for the Wizard to survive into combat, but the Cone and Stop from Freeze is much more cost effective. Throw a Health Potion on the Wiardto keep them in the fight.


Goblin Scavenger
A fast moving ‘horde’ type unit, the Goblin can get an ATK 4 if ganging up on an enemy with additional Goblins. If you’re going to take them, take lots of them!

Setup Ideas
Status Horde
As the Horde ability gives +1 ATK with any attack, not just basic attacks, you can give each of the different status effect causing abilities to a different Goblin providing flexibility over 3 goblins. Toss Scurry onto each of them, and they can spread bad feelings to everyone in the enemy party.


Monsters K through T will show up next week so, ‘Please look forward to it!’


Q and A
I completely forgot one of these last week, so Ill ask BF and EFT related questions:

Brushfire
When given the choice between attacker and defender, besieger and besieged, which do you prefer? What attracts you to one or the other?

How do you feel about the Army and Siege rule changes from V1? What other changes stick out to you in a good or bad way?

Endless
What iconic monsters do you feel are underrepresented in the current Endless lineup?

What variants of the current monsters would you like to see in the future? Variants of Classes?

 miskatonicalum wrote:

Endless
What iconic monsters do you feel are underrepresented in the current Endless lineup?

Not really my place to post this here, since I can just 'Make it So' , but here are a few Monsters types I want to do at some point:

Mindflayer , possibly with a 1C Cultist Class.. (2C Investigator?)

Gazer/Eye Beast

A Chimera could be fun too as a Large Monster.

Also Owlbears .

I think we need a unicorn. That way everyone can feel specail when they paint it up to look like their favourite MLP:FIM pony. I know I will.

Rarity 4 life.

 Lockark wrote:
I think we need a unicorn. That way everyone can feel specail when they paint it up to look like their favourite MLP:FIM pony. I know I will.

Rarity 4 life.

We've got Kirin, 2 horns are better then 1.

And Ponies only bring trouble.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Lockark wrote:
I think we need a unicorn. That way everyone can feel specail when they paint it up to look like their favourite MLP:FIM pony. I know I will.

Rarity 4 life.

We've got Kirin, 2 horns are better then 1.

And Ponies only bring trouble.

Unicorns were cool before ponies thow.


Even thow they weren't that great at fighting the main villain in the movie...



RUN UNICORNS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! ;O;

Yes, that is a great piece of Fantasy.

 Cyporiean wrote:
Yes, that is a great piece of Fantasy.

Yah. The last unicorn was more in my head when I sujested unicorns more then anything. The crack about MLP:FIM was meant to be taken as sarcasm. XD

For Unicorns you could always go the dresden files route and have Unicorns be murderous monsters that impale everything they see.

I also put a vote in for Behemoths, just love those things

And since i love this genre of video games,

Eaglemen

Mermaids

Pixies

Lizardmen

yes i love tactics ogre and fft
so i love this game

Digclaw wrote:For Unicorns you could always go the dresden files route and have Unicorns be murderous monsters that impale everything they see.

I also put a vote in for Behemoths, just love those things

And since i love this genre of video games,

Eaglemen

Mermaids

Pixies

Lizardmen

yes i love tactics ogre and fft
so i love this game

Suikoden and Breath of Fire also had some really neat "Beast Clans". When we were designing Beastmen, that was the original thought we were following, but we'll see what we can do on that front...

Brushfire
When given the choice between attacker and defender, besieger and besieged, which do you prefer? What attracts you to one or the other?

I don't favor either, but I didn't had the chance to try out any game type except Killpoint. I now will have enough mini and terrain piece for an attack-defend.

How do you feel about the Army and Siege rule changes from V1? What other changes stick out to you in a good or bad way?
I don't think taking out the siege quality was a good idea. Now structures are too fragile and go down under a salvo of arrows. I think it was better when only a few weapons where able to damage structures.

I like the new changes, but I fear that there was a significant power creep since V2 started to take shape.


Endless
What iconic monsters do you feel are underrepresented in the current Endless lineup?

Werewolfs. Needs more werewolfs.

We agreed with your opinion on Arrows taking down walls, here is the change coming in the next update:

Only Damage from Siege Weapons, Ranged Attacks with Ignore Body Armor, or Fire may apply to a Siege Weapon/Fortification.

When given the choice between attacker and defender, besieger and besieged, which do you prefer? What attracts you to one or the other?

-I instinctually gravitate toward defender in such situations. I'm not a very aggressive person or game player and don't feel the need to gain ground unless scenario dictates. I like to make the enemy come to me so we fight on my terms.


How do you feel about the Army and Siege rule changes from V1? What other changes stick out to you in a good or bad way?
I can't say I have much of an opinion. All the proposed changes make sense, but I haven't played enough to have any real feelings.

Endless
What iconic monsters do you feel are underrepresented in the current Endless lineup?
I have a notepad on my phone where I write down all my Endless ideas: monsters, classes, commands, etc. I'll try to get it posted tonight after work.

Be careful with those iconic monsters. I don't want Endless to become just another generic fantasy game. I imagine the goal is to make figures that people would want to buy even if they don't play the game, and common monsters really have to be done well to catch peoples eye. For example, I don't know if I would buy a goblin scavenger figure if OTL came out with one, because I already have hundreds of various goblin figures from other games.

That being said, there are two iconic things I would love to see. First a ghost/spirit, effectively a tattered cloak with nothing glowing eyes for a face. The spirit could be a magic focused 2C dark model. Second a blob-o-tentacles, be it kraken , final fantasy marlboro, Audrey 2, or just faceless evil monster from another dimension. Something large and writhing would be good.

Hmmm, how about a centaur knight in dragoon style armor?


What variants of the current monsters would you like to see in the future? Variants of Classes?
Ice barghest, and puppet/marionette minor demonite, off the top of my head. Fluff already says no cactus mandragora

I asked my wife these questions this morning and this is the response I got:
"I'm very satisfied with the options already in the game, as long as they bring back berserkers sooner rather than later. Ooh, and I want a better cleric." Upon further questioning a "better cleric" sounds like it would be one with access to lesser heal.

 Galen wrote:
Be careful with those iconic monsters. I don't want Endless to become just another generic fantasy game. I imagine the goal is to make figures that people would want to buy even if they don't play the game, and common monsters really have to be done well to catch peoples eye. For example, I don't know if I would buy a goblin scavenger figure if OTL came out with one, because I already have hundreds of various goblin figures from other games.

Our goblins are meth addicts... The High Elves subjugated the goblins and used them in their sick magical experiments. Now that the High Elves are no longer the powerful empire that they were, these goblins are left with the suffering with the magical addiction their masters forced upon them. Goblins travel the world seeking shards of the Air Crystal that they can grind up into a dust and put it in what amounts to a gas mask.

Not shards of air crystals, but close enough. Artificial Aether Crystals that the High Elves created to power their machines.