Faeit-the next two codex are probably orks and black templar

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**Davespil**

Brother SRM wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
I don't know if the "Parting Shot" in White Dwarf means anything, but it featured Orks. I didn't know whether this was going back to the old White Dwarf days when there would be a hint of what was to come on the back page.

It's not a very subtle hint, but then again GW marketing strategy is a bit all over the place so who can know.

The "Parting Shot" means literally nothing. I looked back at the last ~6 months of issues and there's no correlation between that picture and any upcoming issue. It's just a cool picture for the sake of a cool picture.

Just curious, what is the parting shot pictures of for the last 6 WDs? Wonder if they are hints a few months out.

**Experiment 626**

gorgon wrote:
DarthSpader wrote:
from what i understand, its not stand alone black templars, its space marines, with a black templar "supplement" kind of like the eldar/tau supplements

Vanillas with a BT chaser sounds like a good guess. Even with what GW's been doing this year, it's a little surprising to hear Orks before the new year. Still, maybe they'll arrive in November? Like so:

Aug - Lizardmen
Sept - Blood Bowl
Oct - SMs (w/ BTs?)
Nov - Orks
Dec - Terrain/paint/supplies as usual?

Replace Orks w/Dark Elves for Nov...

Deadcember will no doubt be nothing more than the usual 4 boxed armies - I lay my money on High Elves & WoC for Fantasy with Marines & maybe Tau or CSM's for 40k.
Add-in the obligatory Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug box game, and a few other "BIG!" kits to go after all that Xmas cash & frenzy-buying... Who knows, maybe we'll see those often hinted at/rumored new plastic Greater Daemons?! (hey, a girl can dream!

)

**MajorWesJanson**

Daemons seem like a near given for a big box in Dec. It lets them cover two systems with one box.
For 40K, Marines are a given. It has been Marines and a Xenos for 3 years now- Orks, Dark Eldar, Necrons. I'd guess either Tau or Tyranids for this year.

**pretre**

Nothing like coming up with more anonymous sources to back your first...

via an anonymous (and solid) source on Faeit 212
As currently planned, the Ravenguard supplement will be after the 6th edition space marine book (which will be soon) and will coincide with forgeworld's HH Book 3, Massacre pt 2.

The Space Marine chapter supplements will offer a fair amount of divergence (much more than Iyanden), while still staying true to the space marine core book.

In the coming months though we are going to be smothered (pleasantly) in space marine goodies, with every other or every third month releasing a space marine supplement, after the main book comes out.

These releases will be paired with alongside a Xenos they were famous for fighting.
i.e. Tyranids book month A, Ultramarine Supplement month B. Ork codex month C, Crimson Fist supplement month D, etc. (this is not an accurate release schedule, just to illustrate my point)

This will let GW belt out the non SM codexes, without harming their SM backbone.

This adversaries idea will also apply to non SM supplements being released alongside/after Imperial launches as well.

This concept, which is one that is well known inside GW (Xeno followed by SM Supplement), lends a little bit of legitimacy to your rumor about Orks followed by BTs. But with BT not being a Supplement and instead getting their own book, it somewhat breaks the mold.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/07/space-marines-ravenguard-and-more.html

**Grot 6**

Why can't GW just get them all out at the same time?

They bent over backwards for that apocalypse stuff, why not the same effort for the general game?

I mean, we're up to high speed flyers and giant gundam robots under every rock now, how about something useful like... the basic game?

**pretre**

Grot 6 wrote:
Why can't GW just get them all out at the same time?

All the codexes at the same time? Is that what you are asking for? (it is unclear)

Because, and this may be obvious, they spread releases out. If they released everything month 1, they wouldn't have anything to release month 2. 'But why not just release the codexes and then release the models later, pretre?' The CHS case put paid to that and they were moving away from it before. Rules don't come out without models anymore.

**1hadhq**

A "vs" system could work. Am also happy with a Raven Guard supplement ( if they keep GT away from it ) and BT are already not given up on as we can see with Apoc / Armageddon.

If I just may have those supplements at an affordable price, yes?

**DiabolicAl**

Like the idea of the adversary system. If true it would actually be a smart move by GW. So it probably isnt.

**pretre**

Here it is, enjoy.

A huge thanks to Mauler for sending this in to Faeit 212 yesterday.

via Mauler from the Faeit 212 inbox
Keep up the good work, mate! I was at the Enter The Citadel event yesterday.

Just got home from this event and it was pretty damn good. Got to chat with Jes Goodwin, Jervis Johnson, Phil Kelly, Kevin Chin &; several other BL &; FW guys. Sat in on their Designing Apocalypse & Warhammer Feedback sessions where they talked about the subject and we got to field questions to them afterwards.

Some blitherings:
Apoc is seen by the GW studio as a toolkit for massive games rather than a rigid framework, leaning towards making big games easier to organise and play rather than sticking to the background setting. The Allies matrix in the 40k rulebook with "Come the Apocalypse" is the truth; in Apoc you can ally with whichever faction you like. Formations are in there to give players a direction to go for with their collection: if you've got two Predators, pick up the Apoc book and are unsure about what models to get next (I'm paraphrasing here and I didn't pick up the Apoc book myself today) then leafing through the Imperial formations you can pick up one more Predator and get bonus rules for the 3x Predator formation, whatever it's called.

Formations don't have points values as they're not units in the same vein as the core rulebook &; codices, they're mainly there to provide bonus rules if you have groups of specific models and make things more interesting. The guys got the point across that if you don't like a particular rule you can just leave it out; if you don't need a particular tool in your toolkit you're not obliged to use it. Master Of Disaster which originally had a Viking helmet to pass around each turn to identify the Master) is wrecking massive chunks of table? Don't use it. Finest Hour? Optional. It's all there to be used as we see fit, it's even less of a tourney focused expansion and is basically a guide on arranging and playing oversize games with mates.

War Zone books for Apoc will be more like mini-Imperial Armour books than supplements and will include new scenarios, unit datasheets, rules & historic background, orders of battle and timeline maps. The studio will use them to pick significant battles from the history of 40k (like the Battles For Armageddon) and flesh them out in detail along with rulesets for players to enact them.

SISTERS OF BATTLE/BLACK TEMPLARS will get attention and are not in line to be dropped at this time. I spoke to Jervis Johnson and asked him myself and he said "Every army is getting worked on and will be updated in time." But obviously in true GW fashion he couldn't say when or if it would be via codex or supp. Personally I believe codices will be used when I consider what a supplement is for, but that's just me.

I was talking to Jes Goodwin about how much I love the design of Wraithguard & Wraithblades when he actually beat me to the next thing I was about to ask "Are you about to ask about those jetbike models like the last guys did?" Ha. Apparently Jes was given a choice to make: either go with new Wraithguard/Blades into production OR the new jetbike model. Jes thought that the Wraiths brought more options to the table and were more valuable as a brand new unit choice, while the jetbikes already have an existing model and didn't bring anything new. As much as I'm sick of the current jetbike model I do think that Jes made the right call.

Also Eldar related: I asked Jes about another artbook of his Eldar work and he replied that he had enough material to fill a book each for DE &; CE (and based on the three folders that he had with him alone I believe him) and it has been discussed but ultimately it is down to the Black Library to make this happen. I then wandered off to find the BL stand and accosted them, demanding to know where these books were. The chap was pretty open about it and said that the publishing arm of GW had formed two new units to work with the normal BL staff; GW Digital &; BL Direct. The Digital arm are getting into gear with digital online publishing, hence the emergence of codices outside of iTunes, and the Direct team will be handling specialist work such as art books, extremely limited runs, collector's editions, stuff like that. I'll be speaking to the guy soon to get more info as he said that he'll speak to some people about it so there is hope yet.

Jervis and Phil were interested in what people wanted, a focus on codices or supplements as the same guys do work on both. The was one chap who gave them a "I don't care about new codices, I just want more interesting ways of using my forces" case for supplements but that smacked of "I'm alright so sod those poor guys with old books" and he seemed, thankfully, to be the minority. Like the Popular Front Of Judea, if you know what I'm talking about. I got the impression that GW are sticking to the current monthly releases so supplement work shouldn't stop 40k codices from being released but may impact their release order depending on who is working on what and when.

All in all it was a pretty good day. I'll update with more if anything comes to mind and if anyone else who was there has anything to add then please feel free

Also saw a few 'Cron Tesserract Arks. When they're open they are MASSIVE. Like a foot square at least. Mad.

**Fayric**

To be fair, a Templar supplement would not fit in the way the other supplemets are done.
I know we basicly just have the Iyanden sup to "compare" with so far, but some obvious limitations to the supplement format is:
No new unit entries,
no specific models to set it apart from the main codex
no armywide special rules
etc
just some structural change and move-arounds.
Not saying Templars wont be represented by a supplement,
but they dont really fit the role supplements seem to have,
(that is, to use the existing rules/units in a new/different gamestyle)
Just my thoughts

**d3m01iti0n**

Looks like BT, an army with its own allies listing, Apoc formations, and a myriad of often ignored rules will be getting an update this winter. Color me ecstatic, yet unsurprised. Time to join the DA/BA club and get out of the SM tab.

WELCOME BACK ETERNAL CRUSADERS

**Grot 6**

pretre wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:
Why can't GW just get them all out at the same time?

All the codexes at the same time? Is that what you are asking for? (it is unclear)

Because, and this may be obvious, they spread releases out. If they released everything month 1, they wouldn't have anything to release month 2. 'But why not just release the codexes and then release the models later, pretre?' The CHS case put paid to that and they were moving away from it before. Rules don't come out without models anymore.

It's not obvious. People are out there with unsupported armies, its a gak move for gaks sake. That gak about not having anything to release month is sales double speak. As people are dumping their 40K left and right, we watch as Jervis fiddles as GW burns.

As to nothing to release? Are you serious?

Giant Robots, Apocalypse. Special stuff for each army, added stuff as the game develops..... Are you seriously saying that Everyone has to wait around for years for updates, just for the sake of selling an overpriced gak book?

They released a campaign book. They released Apocalypse, they released Giant robots and flyers, along with some added on lickies and chewies for the defense line. Still waiting on that Alien terrain and buildings supplement, still waiting on the added on summer campaign stuff that was supposed to knock socks off....

release the Codex, Update with supplemental, and call it a day. Of course we can always be happy with two to three different iterations of the game before a real codex comes out as everyone else gets happy happy joy joy while they overplay the flavor of the months... that always goes well.

Helped drive me away, why not run off a few more.

**pretre**

Grot 6 wrote:
As to nothing to release? Are you serious?

Giant Robots, Apocalypse. Special stuff for each army, added stuff as the game develops..... Are you seriously saying that Everyone has to wait around for years for updates, just for the sake of selling an overpriced gak book?

There is only so much that one company can design, build and produce in a given time period. That's what I mean by nothing to release. We don't know the lead time for a kit, but we can assume it is more than a month for them to design, sculpt, manufacture and distribute.

Still waiting on that Alien terrain and buildings supplement, still waiting on the added on summer campaign stuff that was supposed to knock socks off....

Unsubstantiated rumors.

release the Codex, Update with supplemental, and call it a day.

So codexes with no new units? If that's all you are asking for, sure. Of course, GW is a model company so that is unlikely. I have always said though that the codexes should each receive an update at the start of every edition to bring them in line. That could be done without a full release.

**Brother SRM**

Davespil wrote:

Just curious, what is the parting shot pictures of for the last 6 WDs? Wonder if they are hints a few months out.

I think February's was an Arachnarok Spider. March or May had a Thunderhawk and some people thought that meant a plastic Thunderhawk, but it was obviously the same Forgeworld model from the website and was just there to look cool.

The idea of releasing "rivals" like the Crimson Fists at the same time as Orks and so on is a pretty cool one, but it seems to make too much sense to tell you the truth. Try as I may, I can't put a pin on what GW is doing, and that makes too much sense to be right. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just a gut feeling.

Also thanks for posting that bit from Enter the Citadel. I always love getting insight like that.

pretre wrote:

There is only so much that one company can design, build and produce in a given time period. That's what I mean by nothing to release. We don't know the lead time for a kit, but we can assume it is more than a month for them to design, sculpt, manufacture and distribute.

Jes Goodwin's sketch of the Wraithknight in White Dwarf last month was dated 18 months before the model released. I would assume that's about standard for a plastic kit.

**pretre**

Brother SRM wrote:

pretre wrote:

There is only so much that one company can design, build and produce in a given time period. That's what I mean by nothing to release. We don't know the lead time for a kit, but we can assume it is more than a month for them to design, sculpt, manufacture and distribute.

Jes Goodwin's sketch of the Wraithknight in White Dwarf last month was dated 18 months before the model released. I would assume that's about standard for a plastic kit.

Sounds pretty reasonable. That would mean that under Grot 6's plan, everything would get released next month and then it would take 18 months before another release.

**Brother Weasel**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I doubt most even consider that a codex.

I doubt most people have a (legal) copy of that Codex.

I do, it's in the stack of white dwarfs right next to me

also have a pdf of it.

**The Surveyor**

Heard Orks are WAY OFF in early first quarter of 2014, Space Marines are next, may get Black templars in supplement, I'd rather see Supplements based on founding chapters, I.E. Black templars and Soul Drinkers should be in an Imperial Fists Supplement, BT don't have enough to stand all on their lonesome....

**d3m01iti0n**

The Surveyor wrote:
Heard Orks are WAY OFF in early first quarter of 2014, Space Marines are next, may get Black templars in supplement, I'd rather see Supplements based on founding chapters, I.E. Black templars and Soul Drinkers should be in an Imperial Fists Supplement, BT don't have enough to stand all on their lonesome....

Really? Their book is currently standing all on its lonesome. In fact theyre more divergent and better off than BA and DA were before their updates.

**Grot 6**

pretre wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:

pretre wrote:

There is only so much that one company can design, build and produce in a given time period. That's what I mean by nothing to release. We don't know the lead time for a kit, but we can assume it is more than a month for them to design, sculpt, manufacture and distribute.

Jes Goodwin's sketch of the Wraithknight in White Dwarf last month was dated 18 months before the model released. I would assume that's about standard for a plastic kit.

Sounds pretty reasonable. That would mean that under Grot 6's plan, everything would get released next month and then it would take 18 months before another release.

No. It would mean that the game would be balanced, everyone gets an update to keep the game relevant, and that they could concentrate on things that add to the game, instead of just shilling.

A book for a campaign, added stuff to enhance said campaign, and added lickes and chewies per army, throughout the year. with added web content to update. At the end of the eighteen months, they rerelease the previous years additions in a 1.0, 1.1 update, or just keep the game current by using a little thing called a PDF to fill in the added material.

Better then Invalidating a whole army set, making people dump hundreds of figures on the market and lose face with the customer who pays for the figures and pays their bills by buying the figures.

**pretre**

You must not be familiar with GW.

**TiamatRoar**

The amount of resources that would go into creating an update for 10+ codexes at the same time along with the models to go along with it would be MASSIVE. As it is, GW doesn't even have enough resources to include a codex update for every faction at a rate of one per edition. If GW couldn't even get enough resources to make a 5th Edition Ork and Black Templar Codex (getting someone to write and playtest these things takes TIME), what makes you think they would have been able to make a 5th Edition codex for EVERYONE at the same time?

They'd have to hire 10+ writers (and those writers would have to be GOOD. Talent doesn't grow on trees, either) so each could work on a codex at the same time (one writer assigned to write three codexes but working on one codex at a time wouldn't cut it unless you want to see a new edition every FOUR YEARS or something), and then they'd probably have to hire a ton of sculptors (also need to be talented) for the same reasons. That's insane.

**MajorWesJanson**

d3m01iti0n wrote:
Looks like BT, an army with its own allies listing, Apoc formations

When the Allies listing was written, BT were a separate army. That may change.
BT have one formation that includes BT specific units, one formation of LR Crusaders which should work for all marines who can take them, and Helbrect and a BT command squad is part of a formation that also includes Dante and some Guard.
Going from Apoc, we can also guess that Imperial Fists will get a codex or at least a supplement, thanks to the bit about if Lysander is taken as the captain of the 1st company Formation the troops must be Imperial Fists. Fists also have the Titanhammer squad, which is space marines in the normal book, but has it's own Fist icon in the collectors edition.

**Billagio**

The Surveyor wrote:
Heard Orks are WAY OFF in early first quarter of 2014, Space Marines are next, may get Black templars in supplement, I'd rather see Supplements based on founding chapters, I.E. Black templars and Soul Drinkers should be in an Imperial Fists Supplement, BT don't have enough to stand all on their lonesome....

Thats dissapointing. They are the oldest codex, besides BT.

**-Loki-**

To be fair, first quarter 2014 isn't WAY OFF, it's fairly close, considering we're now in third quarter 2013.

**jspyd3rx**

Just realized the past three years that August has been a daemon wave

Hopefully, it keeps and we'll see those greater daemons?

**AlmightyWalrus**

The Surveyor wrote:
Heard Orks are WAY OFF in early first quarter of 2014, Space Marines are next, may get Black templars in supplement, I'd rather see Supplements based on founding chapters, I.E. Black templars and Soul Drinkers should be in an Imperial Fists Supplement, BT don't have enough to stand all on their lonesome....

Cue standard AlmightyWalrus response:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Crimson Fists and Black Templars are every bit as much "First Founding" as the Imperial Fists Chapter. The fact that there was a Legion with the name of one of them doesn't mean that the Imperial Fists Chapter can claim all the history of the Heresy as theirs and no one else's. The Legions no longer exist; the fact that some Chapters have the same names as the non-existant Legions doesn't matter.

As an example, let's pretend that the Imperial Fists pre-heresy Legion was called the Über Legion. Once the Heresy resolves, they split into the Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars and the Soul Drinkers. Why would any of these Chapters have a greater claim to status and recognition than any of the others?

And for the record, Dark Angels and Blood Angels had even less unique quirks before they were remade.

**d3m01iti0n**

Siege of Terra. Street cred son.

**TheDraconicLord**

SISTERS OF BATTLE/BLACK TEMPLARS will get attention and are not in line to be dropped at this time. I spoke to Jervis Johnson and asked him myself and he said "Every army is getting worked on and will be updated in time." But obviously in true GW fashion he couldn't say when or if it would be via codex or supp. Personally I believe codices will be used when I consider what a supplement is for, but that's just me.

Sisters of Battle getting some love?! I must be dreaming. If they get a codex, and heavens forbid, plastic miniatures, I think GW achieved a new milestone.

**Kroothawk**

I don't think we will see 7 Codices and 3-4 Codex sized supplements this year.

**Hivefleet Oblivion**

Kroothawk wrote:
I don't think we will see 7 Codices and 3-4 Codex sized supplements this year.

Absolutely not. GW have hired more designers, so the increased flow of new models will continue, but some of those hoping for new codices are going to be disappointed.

I hope orks come in before nids, though, altho we play both it's sad that orks have been comparatively neglected since 2009 or so.