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Kangodo wrote:
In all of those cases you wouldn't mind allowing models to shoot through it, right?

Wrong. Just as I would expect the kneeling devastator to draw LOS from his actual head rather than from where it would be if he was standing up.

40K uses true LOS. If you have a problem with my closed pods, don't play against me. I'm not going to start pretending that the models on the table are differently positioned to how they are actually positioned unless it is absolutely necessary, because that's just icky.

Because you are not looking for an advantage, right?

Not because I am looking for an advantage, but because trying to determine what could be seen through the pod if the doors were open is far more trouble than it is worth. Play the model as it is on the table. In a game where a kneeling marine and a standing marine function differently despite supposedly being the same thing, or for that matter where the Rogue Trader Marine-sized Avatar, the current 'Fine'cast Avatar and the gigantor Forgeworld Avatar all count as the same thing despite functioning completely differently for LOS, it's really not worth the bother.

I'd leave 1 door unglued for the people who will whinge about it, that way you can just drop the 1 door and disembark them out of that. Also, if you keep the doors closed you won't be able to shoot anything with it, as vehicles draw line of sight from the weapon and the drop pod's weapon is inside it.

It's not Modelling For Advantage, it's placing for advantage. You can place your models however you'd like, including with the doors shut.
Now, keep in mind that the gun cannot fire with the doors shut because it is inside the pod and cannot draw LOS.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
If I model it with the doors shutpermanently can i block los with these,?

No. Simply no. This has been discuswed over and over. Coupled with your singular statement, you are making unnecessary changes to a model for advantage. Hope you don't intend on uaing the internally mounted weapons...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
If I model it with the doors shutpermanently can i block los with these,?

No. Simply no. This has been discuswed over and over. Coupled with your singular statement, you are making unnecessary changes to a model for advantage. Hope you don't intend on uaing the internally mounted weapons...

H'es not changing the model, he's just deploying it closed, there is no rule against this.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
If I model it with the doors shutpermanently can i block los with these,?

No. Simply no. This has been discuswed over and over. Coupled with your singular statement, you are making unnecessary changes to a model for advantage. Hope you don't intend on uaing the internally mounted weapons...

Changing a whopping 0% of the model from the stock one.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
H'es not changing the model, he's just deploying it closed, there is no rule against this.

There isn't any rule against MFA either.
You should try to do that in a tournament or among friends, see how long you stay in the match.

Just because the rules allow it, doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

 Happyjew wrote:
Why not? I'm making a modeling decision based on the advantage it gives me in the game. The fact that my model can have the upgrades has no bearing. Giving my Captain those items gives him an advantage.

Does it give him an advantage over other captains with the same gear?

The closest thing to "MFA" in the BRB is regarding models on scenic bases where you are told to treat it as the stock model.

So? That doesn't change the fact that I think it's MFA.

 insaniak wrote:
If you have a problem with my closed pods, don't play against me.

Damnit, playing against someone on the other side of the world was on the top of my to-do list :(

Isnt this a nil point, didnt think you could shoot through vehicles to hit other units, otherwise I will insist that I can fire through the side doors of a landraider when the guys get out.

Daston wrote:
Isnt this a nil point, didnt think you could shoot through vehicles to hit other units, otherwise I will insist that I can fire through the side doors of a landraider when the guys get out.

If you can see through the vehicle, then you can shoot through it. That won't work with a landraider, unless the owner has modelled both external and internal hatches open.

Kangodo wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
H'es not changing the model, he's just deploying it closed, there is no rule against this.

There isn't any rule against MFA either.
You should try to do that in a tournament or among friends, see how long you stay in the match.

Just because the rules allow it, doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

This forum is not for discussing game etiquette.
The question is if it is allowed or not. The answer is ... yes it is. Now its the players turn to make something out of it. I personally model my drop pods open because i like the looks. I wouldnt have a problem with someone glueing them shut. Its not like i lose the game because of this. He cant draw LOS either. And in some cases i am able to use them as a LOS blocker or get a cover save too. Also theres the drawback of not being able to shoot the stormbolter or ever use the ML. So who cares?

Also in the space wolves codex there is no "the hatches are blown" sentence. It simply says the passegers have to disembark after landing.
To the naysayers: So ... does that say a space wolves drop pod can be glued shut as opposed to a vanilla marine one?

 Mywik wrote:
This forum is not for discussing game etiquette.

It's called "You Make Da Call", not "You Cite Da BRB".
If anyone asks a question on a problem, I am allowed to give him my opinion outside of what the Rulebook says about it.

And with a broken system like WH40K there is nothing wrong with providing some 'game etiquette'.

The question is if it is allowed or not. The answer is ... yes it is. Now its the players turn to make something out of it. I personally model my drop pods open because i like the looks. I wouldnt have a problem with someone glueing them shut. Its not like i lose the game because of this.

The BRB allows it.
But almost every playgroup and tournament use a 'rule' called MFA.

He cant draw LOS either. And in some cases i am able to use them as a LOS blocker or get a cover save too. Also theres the drawback of not being able to shoot the stormbolter or ever use the ML. So who cares?

Yeah, the guy that owns the Drop Pod has such a big problem since he can't draw LoS :')
I've yet to see someone pull this trick and deny his own LoS from his Devastator Squad and the gun inside is ooh so powerful.
9 out of 10 times that someone does this, it's because they want their heavy-CC orientated unit to be safe so they can charge the next turn.

I know I wouldn't mind about my own LoS when it means that next turn I assault with 10 Death Company-marines.

Also in the space wolves codex there is no "the hatches are blown" sentence. It simply says the passegers have to disembark after landing.
To the naysayers: So ... does that say a space wolves drop pod can be glued shut as opposed to a vanilla marine one?

Both can be glued shut, but we all know how a Drop Pod works according to the fluff.

Kangodo wrote:
Both can be glued shut, but we all know how a Drop Pod works according to the fluff.

Sure. Fluff-wise, the doors open when it lands. Fluff-wise, the doors on a land raider also open when the unit inside wants to disembark. That doesn't mean there is any requirement for the doors to actually open on the model. Nor is there any requirement for your marines to be modelled in 'running' poses in order to make use of the Run rule. It's just fluff.

There's four ways to handle pods:

1. Open the doors before placing on the table. This creates a problem as you scatter away from obstacles enough to clear the hull, not the doors(we're told to ignore the doors) leading to a situation where you cannot place it where it should be placed.

2. Leave the doors closed. This means that the gun can't fire and line of sight is blocked through the pod.

3. Don't fit the doors at all. Technically not legal as non-optional parts of the model have been left off but doesn't cause any mechanical issues like 1&2.

4. Place the pod and then open doors where possible. Also not legal as there is no permission to move parts of model except for vehicle weapons and turrets when shooting.

Of the legal options, 2 is the least problematic. Personally, I go with 3.

Kangodo wrote:
Both can be glued shut, but we all know how a Drop Pod works according to the fluff.

According to the fluff my bolters have rending.

The BRB allows it.
But almost every playgroup and tournament use a 'rule' called MFA.

No player group that i was playing in disallowed stock models in stock poses.

The doors must open so that the Marines can and must disembark. If you keep the doors closed then I'd assume the squad dies due to being close hatched.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The doors must open so that the Marines can and must disembark. If you keep the doors closed then I'd assume the squad dies due to being close hatched.

So according to you i also have to NOT glue in the rhino doors and glue the inner hatch open to be able to use that access point?
You also want to ignore the rules for open topped vehicles which say i can use any point of the HULL as an access point?

 insaniak wrote:
There is no requirement to have the doors of a transport vehicle physically modelled open in order for troops to disembark.
Models (including the drop pod) block LOS if they physically block LOS.
In the case of the drop pod, leaving the doors shut will mean the pod's weapon can't draw LOS to anything, though.

This! A reasonable consequence if you want to block line of sight is the weapon cannot fire.
It could be inferred that the weapon is meant to fire so the doors must be open.
The difficulty is the doors make the model bigger.
I always treated it that the doors always open and the actual open doors are "not there" in terms of deployment or the 1" away rule or I would have a larger than 1' zone to deploy out of.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The doors must open so that the Marines can and must disembark. If you keep the doors closed then I'd assume the squad dies due to being close hatched.

So models can't disembark from the side doors of Rhinos or Land Raiders then, because those doors don't open?

I'm assuming this also means that I would need to actually open a trans-dimensional rift in order to disembark my necrons from a Monolith... It would be helpful if GW included the mechanism for that with the damn model.

Not to mention the dangers of using a Portalglyph to open your very own Warp Rift!

Are we talking pods with or without all the harness's and consoles in them?

Because when you fill them with the interior stuff you can hardly see through the pod.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
Are we talking pods with or without all the harness's and consoles in them?

Because when you fill them with the interior stuff you can hardly see through the pod.

Well if you are on a Hill you can see through the pod a lot.

So, can I run my land raider.popping a wheelie so more of my stuff can get cover too? I just want to be as desperate for a cover save as the OP.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, can I run my land raider.popping a wheelie so more of my stuff can get cover too? I just want to be as desperate for a cover save as the OP.

This really has nothing to do with the OP at all.

Modifying a model, and building a model as per the instructions are really two different things...

isnt the storm bolter on the inside of the pod?

so if they glue doors shut, no LOS from the storm bolter

Well if you are on a Hill you can see through the pod a lot.

Not really. And If your not on that hill you can't even see a marine on the other side of it.

So, can I run my land raider.popping a wheelie

I want to see this

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, can I run my land raider.popping a wheelie so more of my stuff can get cover too? I just want to be as desperate for a cover save as the OP.

I fail to see how building a model 100% as instructed then gluing the doors shut, disadvantaging yourself in your choice of how to deploy the model, is at all comparable to making a Land Raider do a wheelie by either modifying the model or the base to get easier cover saves.

That being said, please make an entire army where every vehicle and bike is doing a wheelie if they're capable, then post pictures.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So, can I run my land raider.popping a wheelie so more of my stuff can get cover too? I just want to be as desperate for a cover save as the OP.

Go for it. Good luck shooting anything with the land raider's weapons.

To use a slightly less extreme example, a bike posed doing a wheelie will also block more los than a bike that isn't... But despite being about the most common 'conversion' in history, nobody ever seems to complain about it.

A sergeant with a back banner also blocks LOS differently to a sergeant without one. A kneeling trooper blocks LOS differently to a standing one, or a prone one. And again, people just accept these things and get on with the game.

What is it about the drop pod specifically that makes people suddenly object to rules that apply the same way to every other unit in the game?

easysauce wrote:isnt the storm bolter on the inside of the pod?

so if they glue doors shut, no LOS from the storm bolter

Yes, that has been pointed out numerous times so far...

This seems like a perfectly legal and reasonable way to deploy your drop pods. It also has the advantage of not having to fight with the doors to get them into position around other models or terrain.

 insaniak wrote:

Daston wrote:
Isnt this a nil point, didnt think you could shoot through vehicles to hit other units, otherwise I will insist that I can fire through the side doors of a landraider when the guys get out.

If you can see through the vehicle, then you can shoot through it. That won't work with a landraider, unless the owner has modelled both external and internal hatches open.

I'd like to see someone do this. It would be kind of funny to visualize this giant land raider brick turning sideways, all the hatches opening, and all the army shooting through it. I'd probably ask for a cover save against most of the shots though, since I'm guessing a lot fo models will be obscured (although I'm still not sure how cover saves are awarded in this game. most people I play with just default to "if not all the model is visible and your troops aren't the thing that's blocking it then it gets a save".)

What about the Forge World drop pod model that has a solid interior? Should we pretend to see through it and ignore the true line of sight rule?