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I tried to Vector Strike my S9 Hive Tyrant over a pack of marines and my opponent claimed "unmodified" meant using the S6 profile. I tried saying it meant without the use of wargear.

Any answers?

Unmodified means just that - base strength.

My HT wishes it could iron arm vs.

Grrrr... wasn't sure because the FAQ read to me as a tad vague. ok.

If it was just a squad of normal marines wouldn't you still be wounding on 2s anyway?

Iranna.

Oops, forgot to say they had Feel No Pain.

Page 2 states what modifiers are, from memory. +3 is a modifier.

Not so sure about this one myself. I for one would argue that if I enfeeble your Hive Tyrant, that it would use that -1 strength, so why not use the iron arm? The rulebook definition of "modifier" doesn't seem to include psychic powers. And the faq left that alone also. My group allows this. But then again it isn't 100% clearly written out either way IMO.

 DW wrote:
Not so sure about this one myself. I for one would argue that if I enfeeble your Hive Tyrant, that it would use that -1 strength, so why not use the iron arm? The rulebook definition of "modifier" doesn't seem to include psychic powers. And the faq left that alone also. My group allows this. But then again it isn't 100% clearly written out either way IMO.

How can you modify a characteristic without it being a modifier?

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 DW wrote:
Not so sure about this one myself. I for one would argue that if I enfeeble your Hive Tyrant, that it would use that -1 strength, so why not use the iron arm? The rulebook definition of "modifier" doesn't seem to include psychic powers. And the faq left that alone also. My group allows this. But then again it isn't 100% clearly written out either way IMO.

How can you modify a characteristic without it being a modifier?

Just in terms of what the rulebook defines as a modifier on page 2 or whatever it is. Lists wargear and few other things, but doesn't list psychic powers. Not the most convincing argument, but it is definitely there. My biggest issue is the Enfeeble point I made. Why would you get your +1 strength back on the vector strike if I have enfeebled you? doesn't seem right, so you make it go the other way as well = iron arm on vector strike can work.

Unmodified means unmodified. They handily define what a modifier is, and do not exclude psychic powers from that Definition

 DW wrote:
Not so sure about this one myself. I for one would argue that if I enfeeble your Hive Tyrant, that it would use that -1 strength, so why not use the iron arm? The rulebook definition of "modifier" doesn't seem to include psychic powers. And the faq left that alone also. My group allows this. But then again it isn't 100% clearly written out either way IMO.

Its 100% clear. Unmodified. That means that it is your STR without any modifiers, check out the rulebook to see what modifiers are.

I don't think enfeeble or iron arm would matter much when a 2 ton flyrant crashes into your marines then flies off. Its not landing and making an attack, that would be assaulting them. Its just belly flopping on them, or slashing with claws, then continuing on its way.

Now, if you get a Daemonic Gift that gives +1 strength at the start of the game and lasts all game, does that count for Vector Strike?

Or is that still modified?

Does it fit the definition on page 2?

Bloodhorror wrote:
Now, if you get a Daemonic Gift that gives +1 strength at the start of the game and lasts all game, does that count for Vector Strike?

Or is that still modified?

Has it been changed in anyway, shape or form from the base stat line the unit has in its codex?

Seems daft to me....

Bloodhorror wrote:
Seems daft to me....

Vector Strike is in a bit of a funny place anyway. Its not a shooting attack or a close combat attack but a special rule with its own definitions of how to determine damage and assign wounds. If you think about it in this way then its less of a stretch to see how special rules and modifiers designed to enhance (or degrade) close combat or shooting attacks do not affect it.

Bloodhorror wrote:
Now, if you get a Daemonic Gift that gives +1 strength at the start of the game and lasts all game, does that count for Vector Strike?

...there isn't one?
In the old book, a DP could buy "Unholy Might": "The model has +1 Strength on its profile." This DID affect the Vector Strike, since it explicitly modified the stat line. However, this wording is absent from Iron Arm, or any other bonus in the Daemon book that I'm aware of. So for DPs Vector Strike is always at Str 6.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Bloodhorror wrote:
Now, if you get a Daemonic Gift that gives +1 strength at the start of the game and lasts all game, does that count for Vector Strike?

...there isn't one?
In the old book, a DP could buy "Unholy Might": "The model has +1 Strength on its profile." This DID affect the Vector Strike, since it explicitly modified the stat line. However, this wording is absent from Iron Arm, or any other bonus in the Daemon book that I'm aware of. So for DPs Vector Strike is always at Str 6.

It's not a Daemonic Gift, but a Chaos Space Marines Daemon Prince could get lucky with a Gift of Mutation and get +1 Strength before the game starts. But it's still a modifier, and so won't count towards Vector Strike.