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Recently I was challenged by an Eldar player who was running 1 Wraithknight. I didn't get a chance to play him because of time and the FLGS was closing soon. But that got me thinking about what I would be able to do against the Wraithknight or even the Tau Riptide. I see they are huge and they sound like they are just insane on the battlefield. As a Chaos player, I am trying to think of things that could/would bring these units down.

Their damage output is actually low for the points you pay for them, but their defence is high. The firepower of the same number of points in War Walkers or Broadsides is much more deadly.

Poison hurts the WK a lot, while I don't think the Riptide is actually fearless.

Neither are Eternal Warrior, though I don't know what ID weapon Chaos has that can wound it easily (can't be done by x2 toughness as they are >T5).

I know the Wraithknight is just an MC, but isn't the Riptide also (character)? A friend of mine runs a Slaanesh Lord with a Murdersword and jump pack and nominates my Dreadknight. I then spend most of the game avoiding him. Could that work in a Riptide? Still wounding on 2s with ID.

Or is there any way to make a unit of Cultists Fearless, Stubborn or at least incredibly unlikely to run away? Just tarpit the Wraithknight, it can only swat 4 per turn and as it isn't a Character, it can't challenge anyone who may be conferring any special rules.

Allied Chaos Daemons Prince of Nurgle with the Balesword.

Strikes before them both in combat, Poisen 4+, Instant Death.

Or an allied Bloodthirster inflicts Instant Death on a roll of a 6 to Wound.

Your own CSM Daemon Prince with Black Mace runs more of a risk of being instantly killed by their S10 in combat.

Failing that, Telepathy spam on the Riptide for Hallucinate, to either pin it or make it unable to do any actions.

Maybe tying them up with some Nurgle Spawn and hoping for the 4+ Poisen.

BunnyCommando wrote:
I know the Wraithknight is just an MC, but isn't the Riptide also (character)? A friend of mine runs a Slaanesh Lord with a Murdersword and jump pack and nominates my Dreadknight. I then spend most of the game avoiding him. Could that work in a Riptide? Still wounding on 2s with ID.

Or is there any way to make a unit of Cultists Fearless, Stubborn or at least incredibly unlikely to run away? Just tarpit the Wraithknight, it can only swat 4 per turn and as it isn't a Character, it can't challenge anyone who may be conferring any special rules.

Bring Typhus and make the Cultists into Zombies with are Fearless/Slow and Purposeful/FnP

 Solomongrundy wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
I know the Wraithknight is just an MC, but isn't the Riptide also (character)? A friend of mine runs a Slaanesh Lord with a Murdersword and jump pack and nominates my Dreadknight. I then spend most of the game avoiding him. Could that work in a Riptide? Still wounding on 2s with ID.

Or is there any way to make a unit of Cultists Fearless, Stubborn or at least incredibly unlikely to run away? Just tarpit the Wraithknight, it can only swat 4 per turn and as it isn't a Character, it can't challenge anyone who may be conferring any special rules.

Bring Typhus and make the Cultists into Zombies with are Fearless/Slow and Purposeful/FnP

Until you have to challenge the wraithknight and he IDs you with str 10.

Honestly, take some kroot snipers with a commander that twin links their guns, ignores cover and has the chip for monster hunter.

Statiscally, 20 kroot kill the wraithknight in one turn provided that it doesn't have the 5++


Or, 20 seekers if you think you can make it there before you get shot away.

Can always try and drown them in plasma as well.

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
I know the Wraithknight is just an MC, but isn't the Riptide also (character)? A friend of mine runs a Slaanesh Lord with a Murdersword and jump pack and nominates my Dreadknight. I then spend most of the game avoiding him. Could that work in a Riptide? Still wounding on 2s with ID.

Or is there any way to make a unit of Cultists Fearless, Stubborn or at least incredibly unlikely to run away? Just tarpit the Wraithknight, it can only swat 4 per turn and as it isn't a Character, it can't challenge anyone who may be conferring any special rules.

Bring Typhus and make the Cultists into Zombies with are Fearless/Slow and Purposeful/FnP

Until you have to challenge the wraithknight and he IDs you with str 10.
.

Wraithknight isn't a character so he cant challenge you so tarpits work.


edit: may be hard to catch a wraithknight or a riptide with a tarpit though.

Yea I believe he is Heavy Support

If you're ok with allies, Daemonttes could rend either to death and it's even fluffy against the Eldar.

IIRC wraithknights don't have an invunerable save on the stock version. If that's right you have a Brett good chance of taking one out with a blackmace DP. For a rip tide a Blackmace DP will kill it in 2 assault phases. The rip tide has a 17% chance of ID a DP so user beware. Other wise Plautgue marines and their poison work well.

wouldn't a maulerfiend be alright at killing a riptide?

It costs less, has the speed to hunt it down and can't be hurt unless the riptide smashes(in which case it needs to hope it fails to hit, pen, get through 5++ and then damage result) The magma cutters have to be good at something right?

 Exergy wrote:
wouldn't a maulerfiend be alright at killing a riptide?

It costs less, has the speed to hunt it down and can't be hurt unless the riptide smashes(in which case it needs to hope it fails to hit, pen, get through 5++ and then damage result) The magma cutters have to be good at something right?

I'd throw it at a Riptide to hope to kill it and for sure tie it up.

Hitting on 3's plus magma cutters is reasonable damage.

I enjoy a balesword on my GUO ally for these. Otherwise, Typhus.

francieum wrote:

Thatguyoverthere11 wrote:

 Solomongrundy wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:
I know the Wraithknight is just an MC, but isn't the Riptide also (character)? A friend of mine runs a Slaanesh Lord with a Murdersword and jump pack and nominates my Dreadknight. I then spend most of the game avoiding him. Could that work in a Riptide? Still wounding on 2s with ID.

Or is there any way to make a unit of Cultists Fearless, Stubborn or at least incredibly unlikely to run away? Just tarpit the Wraithknight, it can only swat 4 per turn and as it isn't a Character, it can't challenge anyone who may be conferring any special rules.

Bring Typhus and make the Cultists into Zombies with are Fearless/Slow and Purposeful/FnP

Until you have to challenge the wraithknight and he IDs you with str 10.
.

Wraithknight isn't a character so he cant challenge you so tarpits work.


edit: may be hard to catch a wraithknight or a riptide with a tarpit though.

The guy who plays Eldar at my shop uses the Iyanden book and so his Wraithknight is always his warlord. I guess I just assumed that meant he was a character.

Not a Chaos player but from what I've seeb it's harder to catch these suckers than tie them up/kill. I haven't actually go against either but I know one dude at my club runs a riptide and gives it FNP and he's not had it die once. JSJ just makes them so hard to catch and shooting at a 2+/3++/5+ fnp is too unreliable to remove all its wounds.

D

Using a Maulerfiend against a Riptide may be a gamble, since Tau happen to have a lot of weapons around the Riptide that can easily threaten AV12. Lashertendrils reduce the number of smash attacks from 2 down to 1 and the Magma Cutters only offer an extra wound or two.

Riptides have the possibility for two twin-linked melta shots and three S7 AP2 shots on overwatch or the ability to take a 3++ invul, not to mention the option for FNP. If a Maulerfiend did catch a Riptide, it could probably go either way or end up locking in combat till one eventually goes down. Not sure if it's worth it though, since a few Broadsides could make short work of it.

Daemon prince with a black mace may work but already stated you are open to instant death failing that abandon would probs kill it

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Using a Maulerfiend against a Riptide may be a gamble, since Tau happen to have a lot of weapons around the Riptide that can easily threaten AV12. Lashertendrils reduce the number of smash attacks from 2 down to 1 and the Magma Cutters only offer an extra wound or two.

Riptides have the possibility for two twin-linked melta shots and three S7 AP2 shots on overwatch or the ability to take a 3++ invul, not to mention the option for FNP. If a Maulerfiend did catch a Riptide, it could probably go either way or end up locking in combat till one eventually goes down. Not sure if it's worth it though, since a few Broadsides could make short work of it.

was just thinking in a closed context how to threaten the tide, which I think the Mauler can do. If there are broadsides/missilesides or crisis suits on the table, why are you bothering with the riptide? It would be far more effective to neuter the suits and ignore the tide.

The Wraithknight in its basic configuration is really not that scary. It has two S10 shots so that can put an end to vehicles pretty quickly. However, it's only 2 shots. There's a chance that 1 or both will miss. I've had some success just ignoring the thing as my lists are not heavy on vehicles.

It's actually more scary in assault. T8 is hard to get through. It can squish Lords and Daemon princes so it's not a good idea to send the usual heavy hitters against it. Daemonettes, seekers and fiends can all do well against it though. A flurry of rending attacks can take it down over a few turns.

A bloodthirster can decapitate the knight before he ever swings too.

You can always try psychic shriek too. Or puppet master if your opponent has two. Take control of one and try to insta-kill the other one.

I haven't played against the Riptide yet, so I can't fully comment on that. However, they seem harder to ignore than the Wraithknight. However, you should focus on the pathfinders first in my opinion. If you can remove the source of marker lights, the BS3 of the Riptide will start to impact its effectiveness.

The tide is actually more susceptible to the usual methods of dealing with monstrous creatures. Plasma wounds it on 3s and lascannons go through its armor too.

Mauler vs Riptide is also a point lopsided affair so it's reasonable to not expect the Mauler to win. Now a pair of Maulers is closer in points and much more likely to kill it.

About the same point difference between one mauler and a riptide as two maulers and a Riptide. At 65 points under and using a single Heavy slot, it has a chance to do some damage and maybe even lock it up. The downside is that if the Riptide gets a single hit through it has a good chance to remove a weapon, immobolize, or even flat out destroy the Mauler. For two heavy slots and 60 points over you'll definately be able to do some damage. But again, it's some what of a risk considering Tau have access to a lot of things that can stop a Mauler, Broadsides being a prime example and something that plenty of people take along side a Riptide.

Really though, the Riptide can do some damage to itself and be somewhat ineffective. Nova charging can put a few wounds on it while gets hot can wound and hinder it's shooting. I wouldn't target a Riptide until turn 3. You want your opponent rolling for novacharges for the chance to wound it. If you start putting wounds on it early, the less likely your opponent is to roll for Nova. Better to let your opponent bring it down to 3-4 wounds than to try to take down all five wounds on your own.

Riptides alone can be dangerous, but they require support units to be fully effective. Targeting support units such as pathfinders or allied farseers should pretty much be the first goal.

I thought a typical Riptide, after upgrades, was pushing 220-230 points.
My mistake if people run them cheaper.

They have a lot of upgrades. But base cost with IA is 185. I only play with EWO so I run two at 190 a piece. If someone puts Stim on them or EWO + Skyfire, they can be between 210-235. But I prefer running cheap with them. I've seen it go either way in a lot of lists, so you weren't really wrong.

 minigun762 wrote:
Mauler vs Riptide is also a point lopsided affair so it's reasonable to not expect the Mauler to win. Now a pair of Maulers is closer in points and much more likely to kill it.

How about Maulerfiend with a sorcerer as backup to roll for Enfeeble. At T5, the Riptide can be punched out by the maulerfiend in one swing.