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Hi Warmachine and Horde players,

Im looking into leaving 40k the game just doesnt hit home for me. Ive been into it for awhile but i have never got attached to it. Im going to finish my ravenwing and sell off the rest of my 40k collection to help avoid getting back into it. I have always been a fan of small army table top games and warmachine/Hordes looks great. Ive looked into Cryx and hear that they are a tuff group to get the hang of playing. Im also in love with the Circle Orboros modles the skinwalkers are great looking. My question is as a new player coming into the game which one would i 1. enjoy (being that i am new) 2. get the hang of quickly. I also love every modle for Cryx thought i would throw that in there.

cryx and circle are a bit tough to get working, cryx is a bit more forgiving, circle requires a lot of teleport shanangins and really knowing the subtleties of how terrain and the rules work.

First thing you need to decide is Hordes or Warmachine. Warmachine uses a focus mechanic while Hordes uses the fury mechanic. Since you can only allocate up to 3 focus to a Jack yet most heavy warbeasts have a fury cap of 4-5 typically a Warbeast will outshine a jack, add on animus and it puts it over IMO. In the GW universe where they make big cool models that all seem to come up short they are almost not worth taking for their cost. So if you are wanting to bring the big models I would lean hordes. Typically Cryx are considered an infantry heavy army . You have probably picked the 2 armies from each that do have the most shanangins going on. Overall play what you like the look and story of, try and find a journeyman league to get started as this will help you along.

Im not sure there are many players in the Socal area. Im mainly going to play with a buddy and my brother. Im really not leaning toward one more then the other. Cryx looks neat im a fan of mass troops. Circle looks cool because ive never played a force that was focused on nature. What got me looking a circle was a batrp by beat matt batrep at mini wargaming. A circle char teleported behind matts caster and jack got to hit every one once and almost killed all of them. I thought it was pretty cool. Cryx draw me in because of the figs maybe i should watch some batreps. Im looking to stay with one for a long time unlike 40k i keep jumping ship on my armys everytime something cool comes out.

If your brother or friend is interested in Legion of Everblight then the practicle solution would for you to buy the Hordes starter box. It comes with both the Circle and Legion factions with pretty good base units. Plus it has a mini rulebook all for about the price of 1 of the faction sets included.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
If your brother or friend is interested in Legion of Everblight then the practicle solution would for you to buy the Hordes starter box. It comes with both the Circle and Legion factions with pretty good base units. Plus it has a mini rulebook all for about the price of 1 of the faction sets included.

Sounds like a good idea......Only i do not like any of the modles offerd in the Cicle starter set.

 Grundz wrote:
cryx and circle are a bit tough to get working, cryx is a bit more forgiving, circle requires a lot of teleport shanangins and really knowing the subtleties of how terrain and the rules work.

yeah, but when those teleport shenanigans work... well. stuff gets messed up.

What are some cool tricks that Cryx can do? Right now circle is sounding good. But id look to know a little more about Cryx.

Launch an exploding infantry model halfway across the board... I think the most maxed out version of the trick I've seen had something like a 28" threat range.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Launch an exploding infantry model halfway across the board... I think the most maxed out version of the trick I've seen had something like a 28" threat range.

HAHAHA that's pretty cool/funny is it one of those bloated looking guys?

Yes. They use one spell that does damage to an enemy, and if they kill the model then they get to place one of their infantry models in their control area. Combine this with a bunch of tricks to get your warcaster as far up the field a possible then the enemy is suddenly in the unpleasant position of staring a bile thrall (the name of the big bloated guy) in the face directly in front of his infantry line.

I don't actually play Cryx, so I am sure there are other things you can do, but that's the "iconic" trick I know about. Cryx is just a really annoying force to play against if you know your stuff (they have casters that are annoying in the "darn that's a stupid move, now I get to fight back" way as well as the much less interesting "so good I don't really have a chance and might as well pack up now" variety).

Cryx also has the infamous Deathjack. Can have up to 5 Focus normally(2 for free) and can harvest enemy souls for more focus. He can also cast his controller's spells.

A friend who plays Cryx told a story where he once had 10 focus on Deathjack.

So it's basically a good warjack that "pays for itself" so the caster can save all his focus for all those delicious Cryx spells...AND he can also double up on all those spells after a round spent killing infantry?

No wonder everyone takes this guy! Seriously reconsidering my refusal to play Cryx...but those "hell chicken" light jacks just drive me away every time I look at them.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
cryx and circle are a bit tough to get working, cryx is a bit more forgiving, circle requires a lot of teleport shanangins and really knowing the subtleties of how terrain and the rules work.

yeah, but when those teleport shenanigans work... well. stuff gets messed up.

Yeah, if you could tele-slam I'd be playing circle

The best application of teleport sillyness I have witnessed was the following.

Kromac has Warpath up, Stalker teleports into Gormen, splats him, warpaths into Gorten, and the rest is history...

I watched a battle report with the Death Jack. Every thing he kills he collects there souls/focus. The harvester of souls is a cool mini. I also like Goreshade the Cursed if I play cryx I would play him. My second chose would be Lich Lord Venethrax. Can any one give me a run down on them?

SheSpits wrote:
I watched a battle report with the Death Jack. Every thing he kills he collects there souls/focus. The harvester of souls is a cool mini. I also like Goreshade the Cursed if I play cryx I would play him. My second chose would be Lich Lord Venethrax. Can any one give me a run down on them?

My "go to" on quick and dirty caster ratings is a podcast called Chain Attack. They pick a random matchup, play a battle report, then spend the other half of the podcast rating the casters. They do various categories from 1 to 10, then give a general overall letter grade based on how well that caster can hang in a tournament setting (i.e. less bad matches and just better overall utility = higher grade).

I can't guarantee their accuracy, and a lot of their ratings are from a long time ago (since it's just one group playing once every week or so, keeping current on all the casters in this game is pretty much impossible). eGoreshade is a B, the other Goreshade and Venethrax are Cs (which isn't bad, it's playable and quite winnable against a fair number of matchups, just not the best choice in the faction if you're going tournament). you can go to chainattack.com and search the caster names to download their battle reports if you want to get more detailed information.

Thanks Dementedwombat! Im going to check that website out right now. Really looking forward to getting into the game. Just a quick question. Does any one know some one willing to trade Cryx or Circle for some 40k stuff?

 Grey Templar wrote:
The best application of teleport sillyness I have witnessed was the following.

Kromac has Warpath up, Stalker teleports into Gormen, splats him, warpaths into Gorten, and the rest is history...

The best I've seen was teleport -> two handed throw into the caster -> shoot caster dead

What shooting? its Circle.

 Grey Templar wrote:
What shooting? its Circle.

krueger and blood pack

I rarely see them on the table. Easy to forget about them.

Cryx is much better for starting, IMO. You can pretty much pick up any caster, a good jack, some nodes and some infantry and have a solid force.

While there is definite synergy, I think most of our stuff also works well just on its own.

Circle is cool, but you have a lot more things to learn and you have to get all the synergy/combos going.

Nice thing about warmachine is it is pretty cheap to get a start box to try them out. Pretty much everyone I know who plays semi-regularly has at least two factions.

I was going to pick up the two player hordes box as everything i want from Circle is in there. Id trade off everblight or keep them as a second choice. Cryx is still on the list but im not super sold on them yet. Are shifting stones needed to tele? And what use is the worldwye (floating shield with a eye thing.)

They are both good right now. Thousgh Cryx from my perspective is a bit easyer to play.

Cryx has some of the best casters in the game.
Circle has some good ones, but not as many.

Cryx is more spellcasting/ troop spammy
Circle is more trixy (teleportation)/attack & run

Both can be played compedativly.


BTW... I have a circle army, though is suck with them

The stones are what provides teleport sillyness, and a bunch of other useful things(healing, fury management, etc...)

The stone shrimp basically gives you magic denial as well as some decent damage against enemy models with upkeeps on them. Also good at hunting enemy spell slinger solos as it gets to shoot them if they cast a spell.

Not amazing but a decent warbeast all around.

Sounds like some cool stones. Every bat rep I seen for Circle they take the STONES. Thanks every one for there input.

Grundz wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
What shooting? its Circle.

krueger and blood pack

woldstalkers, bloodtrackers, nyss hunters...

BryanC wrote:They are both good right now. Thousgh Cryx from my perspective is a bit easyer to play.

Hmm, i think its less "[faction] is easier to play", and more "[caster] is easier to play". Kromac , for example is quite straightforward to grasp the basics - a lot more so than the likes of the coven or skavvy, for example.

BryanC wrote:
Cryx has some of the best casters in the game.
Circle has some good ones, but not as many.

Not entirely accuracte. Circle probably has more "excellent" and "extremely good" casters than "average" ones - eKaya, kromac, pkrueger, eKrueger, Baldur and especially eMorv-although in my mind, kromac and eMorv are one of the best, well rounded and functional pairs in the game. As a whole, id have to rate the entirety of the circe caster roster as an "A" grade-there is very little waste. Even the ones that arent "A" grade are not that through being bad, they're that way through either hard match up problems (eg pMorvahna, and anything that strips upkeeps) or pKaya, but in their respective fields, they're quite ace.

BryanC wrote:
Cryx is more spellcasting/ troop spammy
Circle is more trixy (teleportation)/attack & run

I would argue Circle is less "attack and run" and more "a versatile, almost complete faction in terms of what it can do". Yes, hit and run is one thing it does extremely well - Kromac, pKaya, eKaya and abuse of the Stalkers lightning strike animus.However, they can play control/denial and manipulation (eKrueger, pBaldur, Cassius, Mohsar) attrition (pMorvahna, eMorvahna), jamming (eMorv, anything with skinwalkers), infantry heavy (pMorv), beast heavy (Kromac, kaya), magic denial (Kromac, eMorv) and have access to units that can tarpit (skinwalkers, wolds), alphastrike (stalkers, tharn), shoot (woldstalkers, nyss hunters, bloodtrackers), crack high arm (ghetorix, stalkers, primal), crack hordes (stalkers, pKrueger), screw up magic users (druids, wolds), maipulate terrain and enemy models (stones, wolds and druids), do melee (warpwolves, tharn, ) and so on.

Circle is a fully realised "complete" faction that is functionally capable of just about any style of play, and they will always do something to throw a spanner in the works.

BryanC wrote:
Both can be played compedativly.

every faction can be played competitively.

SheSpits wrote:
Sounds like some cool stones. Every bat rep I seen for Circle they take the STONES. Thanks every one for there input.

Most times they take two units of stones

BryanC wrote:

SheSpits wrote:
Sounds like some cool stones. Every bat rep I seen for Circle they take the STONES. Thanks every one for there input.

Most times they take two units of stones

I know for sure ill factor in one set. Ill have to play them to see how i feel about them. How do people feel about conversions and "count as" in this game?