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I know a lot will simply have been mutations caused by isolation from the Imperium and the rest of humanity but something like an Ogryn or a psyker seems a little bit too big a mutation. I don't have the IG codex so if the answers are all in there then I apologise for not reading all my lore in advance

Speciation is a relatively simple occurrence. Usually it involves a physical separation from the rest of the species. In the case of Ogryns they would have been regular humans separated from the rest of humanity and then small changes over a long period (Probably with the aid of genetic manipulation) would take place. To help them become suited to their environments.

Ogryns are supposed to be the descendants of convicts on prison worlds with high gravities. I don't think it sounds likely that ogryns would have evolved on multiple worlds so it could be they all came from a planet and have spread around the Imperium or, but this is not suggested in the background as I recall, but it could be that 'ogryn' is more of a catch-all term for any human sub-species that meet the criteria of large, dim, heavy-gravity worlders.

Generally in response to environmental conditions, whether low or high gravity, certain toxins or radiological contaminants, possibly even due to the planet's founding during Mankind's pre-Imperium spread across the stars. It is noted that, during this time, planets were often settled by people with specific interests, genetic types, religions, or other shared traits.

So if you had a pre-Imperium planet that was settled by, say, fifteen million people with dwarfism, and it had above-Terran-standard gravity, you might end up with a planet of Ratlings 28,000 years later (in the way that "science" works in 40K that is).

 Gogsnik wrote:
Ogryns are supposed to be the descendants of convicts on prison worlds with high gravities. I don't think it sounds likely that ogryns would have evolved on multiple worlds so it could be they all came from a planet and have spread around the Imperium or, but this is not suggested in the background as I recall, but it could be that 'ogryn' is more of a catch-all term for any human sub-species that meet the criteria of large, dim, heavy-gravity worlders.

The latter is "canon", I believe? There are like, 7+ subspecies of ogryn and an ongoing debate within the Adeptus Mechanicus on whether or not some of those sub species count as Ogryns or should be classified as a new separate type of abhuman. Presumably GW came up with this explanation for why ogryns are on different planets despite their lack of spacefaring ability (unlike squats or ratllngs...well, the latter might be able to bulid a spaceship?)

Most other abhumans listed in 6th edition seem to be confined to one planet, I think (which is more realistic).

Hah fancy that. Do you have a source for the admech debate? I guess it'll only be a small box of text somewhere but it would be interesting to read none the less.

One source for abhumans which speciffically mentions genetic engineering is, iirc, Children of the Emperor, a short story with centaur like humans.

A more unstable sub-species is the Necromunda scaly and I would have thought more such mutant strains would abound over a million worlds.

I thought the more common strains like Ratlings, Ogryn, (and I think even Squats) were results of the spread of humans during the Golden Age of Technology. Likely a combination of being stranded by the Warp-Storms, and genetic tampering to be able to better fit the planets they were settled on. Enough of both of those two things and you can quite easily have different strains of humans that are very nearly separate races after tens of thousands of years with a limited gene pool.

Most of it is probably a result of what AegisGrimm is talking about (abandoned colonies on unterraformed worlds).

Xenos interbreeding is also a possibility for some abuhumans. Its mentioned that humans and eldar can reproduce, and their offspring are pretty much a combination between the two. Let's say human colonists and savage eldar reproduce for generations, until the two are indistinguishable, and the world is populated by especially lithe and psychic humans/especially stout and unpsychic eldar.

 Gogsnik wrote:
Hah fancy that. Do you have a source for the admech debate? I guess it'll only be a small box of text somewhere but it would be interesting to read none the less.

One source for abhumans which speciffically mentions genetic engineering is, iirc, Children of the Emperor, a short story with centaur like humans.

A more unstable sub-species is the Necromunda scaly and I would have thought more such mutant strains would abound over a million worlds.

Sorry, now I realize I got it from the wikia. Well, presumably the wikia got it from somewhere but I can't actually verify that, though I don't think the wikia would go so far as to make something that specific up.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ogryn

I think it's in the back of the rulebook, somewhere in the appendices.

Xenos interbreeding is also a possibility for some abuhumans. Its mentioned that humans and eldar can reproduce, and their offspring are pretty much a combination between the two. Let's say human colonists and savage eldar reproduce for generations, until the two are indistinguishable, and the world is populated by especially lithe and psychic humans/especially stout and unpsychic eldar.

Interesting...hadn't heard that one. Where did you find it?

Considering that Homo Erectus, Neanderthals, Homo floresiensis and Homo Sapiens all evolved on the same planet within a similar timeframe, I don't think ogryns, ratlings or squats are that far from being reasonable on more extreme planets

 Spinner wrote:
I think it's in the back of the rulebook, somewhere in the appendices.

Xenos interbreeding is also a possibility for some abuhumans. Its mentioned that humans and eldar can reproduce, and their offspring are pretty much a combination between the two. Let's say human colonists and savage eldar reproduce for generations, until the two are indistinguishable, and the world is populated by especially lithe and psychic humans/especially stout and unpsychic eldar.

Interesting...hadn't heard that one. Where did you find it?

It mostly comes from older editions of Warhammer 40k. It was either retconned or just quietly shuffled into the "let's not talk about it" category. Or maybe it varies by writer/canon/fluff. I think Xenology refutes it entirely (not sure) but the Skull Harvest and Ultramarines novels imply it's still possible because some guys speculate in-universe that the Corsair Queen human has elder blood in her veins, and they wouldn't be speculating on that if it were publically believed to be impossible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Senden wrote:
Considering that Homo Erectus, Neanderthals, Homo floresiensis and Homo Sapiens all evolved on the same planet within a similar timeframe, I don't think ogryns, ratlings or squats are that far from being reasonable on more extreme planets

Squats still exist. They were mentioned in 6th edition. Depending on GW employee/writer, they were never even retconned out in the first place. Jervis specifically gave fluff ideas for fielding count-as squat armies (Saying they're remnants of the race). Of course, then elsewhere you got GW jokers who did things like edit out all mentions of squats in novels (which IMHO was childish. Either they're retconned out or they're not. Grow a pair and say they're retconned out if they are, instead of silently removing mention of them from novels behind peoples' backs, cowards). And... now they're mentioned in those novels again apparently? .....yea, childish.

I classify the whole "ban anyone who mentions squats" period as just a joke. If a rather "lethal" one.

Squats still exist. They were mentioned in 6th edition. Depending on GW employee/writer, they were never even retconned out in the first place. Jervis specifically gave fluff ideas for fielding count-as squat armies (Saying they're remnants of the race). Of course, then elsewhere you got GW jokers who did things like edit out all mentions of squats in novels (which IMHO was childish. Either they're retconned out or they're not. Grow a pair and say they're retconned out if they are, instead of silently removing mention of them from novels behind peoples' backs, cowards). And... now they're mentioned in those novels again apparently? .....yea, childish.

Yeah, that bothered me too, although it's funny in a sort of in-character way. Clearly the Nottingham branch of the Inquisition has a bit too much time on their hands. Squats aren't all that bad, they [message redacted]

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
I think it's in the back of the rulebook, somewhere in the appendices.

Xenos interbreeding is also a possibility for some abuhumans. Its mentioned that humans and eldar can reproduce, and their offspring are pretty much a combination between the two. Let's say human colonists and savage eldar reproduce for generations, until the two are indistinguishable, and the world is populated by especially lithe and psychic humans/especially stout and unpsychic eldar.

Interesting...hadn't heard that one. Where did you find it?

It mostly comes from older editions of Warhammer 40k. It was either retconned or just quietly shuffled into the "let's not talk about it" category. Or maybe it varies by writer/canon/fluff. I think Xenology refutes it entirely (not sure) but the Skull Harvest and Ultramarines novels imply it's still possible because some guys speculate in-universe that the Corsair Queen human has elder blood in her veins, and they wouldn't be speculating on that if it were publically believed to be impossible.

It also sounds alot like how in almost all fantasy books that deal with both elves and humans they can interbreed. So gw might wanted to get away from the space elves thing again and not mention the possibilities of interbreeding.

The concept of interbreeding with hot space chicks keeps interest in the game up for the 12-16 year old crowd; or those of any age who behave like the 12-16 year old crowd.

-Matt

TiamatRoar wrote:

I don't think the wikia would go so far as to make something that specific up.

I agree. It is a shame the author of that page did not include their sources but there is too much detail for it be invention I would have thought.

As to xenos/human children, whilst I do not recall seeing speciffically retconned, the only such character I can recall is Illyan Nastase (sp?), the human/eldar librarian of the Ultra-Marines but little of that background now holds true. It seems highly unlikely such a union would work anyway so I am glad GW moved away from that. Of courde you still can have genestealer hybrids but that's a whole different thing.

As to the pirate queen I assumed the reference to her possible eldar heritage was intended as a slur and a joke more than anything and not serious.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
The concept of interbreeding with hot space chicks keeps interest in the game up for the 12-16 year old crowd; or those of any age who behave like the 12-16 year old crowd.

-Matt

From marketing POV.

As for some more mature and more cynical people hybridization is the only alternative to genocide in long run

Cheers,
2.5% Neanderthal

There was, 20-some years ago, a half-eldar Librarian who jumped between Chapters and did other crazy gak you can't do anymore. This was early 40K, where the concept and setting had not been fully established.

Now that it has, though, what with SOB/Arbites-controlled "genetic purity sweeps" and the like, there's no way some half-xeno freak is getting into a Space Marine Chapter.

human/eldar hybrid.

most developed through genetic engineering, to adapt them to the worlds they lived on (most likely cause). Also there is the warp, cause you know a WarpWizard did it.

I am sure a lot of it is just 'evolution'. Imperium was/is very rascist/speciest.

Thanks, it was bothering me and I'm glad it sparked interest. My main query was psykers but it seems they just evolved to be psychic or their ancestor is an eldar.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
The concept of interbreeding with hot space chicks keeps interest in the game up for the 12-16 year old crowd; or those of any age who behave like the 12-16 year old crowd.

-Matt

Heresy!