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This might be along the same lines as Vector Strike, which I know is a GREAT topic of discussion!

When a Flyer moves over a unit and drops a bomb (assume the bomb does not have barrage), where are the wounds allocated from? I thought the most logical place to allocate from was the final position of the Flyer, after it had completed its movement. If the Flyer went into Ongoing Reserves, I thought the point on the board edge where it left would be the place to allocate wounds from.
My opponent last week thought that it should be allocated from the center of the blast and that the target unit should therefore not get cover benefits from intervening terrain (like an ADL). I convinced him that since it did not have barrage, it couldn't work like this. He allowed it but was unhappy, even though he couldn't come up with a rule stating otherwise. He then thought the starting position of the Flyer would be the place to allocate wounds from, but this seemed less logical to me. We went with that, since it didn't matter for my unit at that time, and since he was already unhappy.

TL;DR: Where are wounds from a bombing run allocated from: the original position or the final position of the Flyer? What about when the Flyer has entered ongoing reserves: The original position or the point on the board where the Flyer left?

Personally I think the rules on random allocation come into play here. Iirc the random allocation rules describe them being used in situations where the direction the attack is coming from cannot be clearly determined.

They're not barrage weapons? weird. I'd say random allocation.

Hmm, interesting problem.

I am not sure what the BRB says, but I would play it as a Barrage hit.
Why? Because the bomb was dropped when the flyer was right above the target, so the location from the shooter would be directly above it.

Kangodo wrote:
Hmm, interesting problem.

I am not sure what the BRB says, but I would play it as a Barrage hit.
Why? Because the bomb was dropped when the flyer was right above the target, so the location from the shooter would be directly above it.

While this may be the case in the fluff, there don't seem to be any rules supporting this assertion.

I like the Random Allocation idea--hadn't thought of that. However, this still leaves cover saves ambiguous. If my unit is behind an ADL and obscured from both the starting position and the ending position of the Flyer, do I get cover saves against the bomb? Ie. When do I draw LoS from the firing model to the target unit?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Hmm, interesting problem.

I am not sure what the BRB says, but I would play it as a Barrage hit.
Why? Because the bomb was dropped when the flyer was right above the target, so the location from the shooter would be directly above it.

While this may be the case in the fluff, there don't seem to be any rules supporting this assertion.

I like the Random Allocation idea--hadn't thought of that. However, this still leaves cover saves ambiguous. If my unit is behind an ADL and obscured from both the starting position and the ending position of the Flyer, do I get cover saves against the bomb? Ie. When do I draw LoS from the firing model to the target unit?

Bombs are dropped in the movement phase right? that means there is no firing model, therefore they can't get cover by being obscured.

The rules do say that bombs are designed to be dropped on enemies below.
It also says "A Flyer can drop up to one bomb.."

And if I remember it right, Cover-saves only work against shooting attacks.
Bombing Runs aren't shooting attacks.

Kangodo wrote:
The rules do say that bombs are designed to be dropped on enemies below.
It also says "A Flyer can drop up to one bomb.."

And if I remember it right, Cover-saves only work against shooting attacks.
Bombing Runs aren't shooting attacks.

You remember incorrectly, cover saves can be used against anything that doesn't deny a cover save, the only requirement is that the model is wounded/suffer a glancing or penetrating hit.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Kangodo wrote:
Hmm, interesting problem.

I am not sure what the BRB says, but I would play it as a Barrage hit.
Why? Because the bomb was dropped when the flyer was right above the target, so the location from the shooter would be directly above it.

While this may be the case in the fluff, there don't seem to be any rules supporting this assertion.

I like the Random Allocation idea--hadn't thought of that. However, this still leaves cover saves ambiguous. If my unit is behind an ADL and obscured from both the starting position and the ending position of the Flyer, do I get cover saves against the bomb? Ie. When do I draw LoS from the firing model to the target unit?

You don't draw LoS. It'd be non-directional cover (ie area terrain, KFF, Stealth/Shroud, etc).

 PrinceRaven wrote:
You remember incorrectly, cover saves can be used against anything that doesn't deny a cover save, the only requirement is that the model is wounded/suffer a glancing or penetrating hit.

Hmm, I keep looking but can't find the rule that says you can use Cover against all wounds.
Only indications that they work when someone shoots at you.

The only reason Cover saves don't work in combat is the first rule on page 26.
You're given two methods of resolving wounds. Shooting or Close Combat.
If you're not using the combat method, you use the shooting method, using random allocation as mentioned on page 15 (which includes as an example a Mawloc, an attack during the movement phase...)

Kangodo wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
You remember incorrectly, cover saves can be used against anything that doesn't deny a cover save, the only requirement is that the model is wounded/suffer a glancing or penetrating hit.

Hmm, I keep looking but can't find the rule that says you can use Cover against all wounds.
Only indications that they work when someone shoots at you.

Basic rules on p. 15 tells you to allocate wounds then "The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one"

p. 18 tells you various ways how models can receive cover save and that "Where this is the case, the model will be entitled to a cover save"

Nowhere does it specify that these cover saves may only be taken against shooting attacks, additionally p. 19 states "a model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."

There's also precedent, in the rules and FAQs, where logically a model shouldn't get cover, they are still granted cover because they are not specifically denied it, The Doom of Malan'tai's Spirit Leach special rule and the Eldar psychic power Mind War are 2 examples of this.

How should a model logically not have a cover from the Spirit Leech? Even a psychic attack could be dodged by hiding behind a rock.

The problem at this part is that all the rules are about shooting and melee, and this bombing-run is neither one.
Both Armour and Invulnerable-saves specifically say they can be taken when the model suffers a Wound.
Cover Saves are worded differently and I am looking for permission to take it against wounds caused by a bomb, but I cannot find it.

Kangodo wrote:
How should a model logically not have a cover from the Spirit Leech? Even a psychic attack could be dodged by hiding behind a rock.

The problem at this part is that all the rules are about shooting and melee, and this bombing-run is neither one.
Both Armour and Invulnerable-saves specifically say they can be taken when the model suffers a Wound.
Cover Saves are worded differently and I am looking for permission to take it against wounds caused by a bomb, but I cannot find it.

Except it's not a psychic attack, it's a "you're nearby so I ate your soul" ability, why would a chest-high wall or bit of shrubbery prevent your soul from being eaten? That's like trying to stop a magnet being pulled towards another magnet by putting helium in the way.

The cover save rules do not specify they are only against shooting attacks, they specify when the model is granted a cover save, If the model is entitled a save, they have permission to make the best available save, including a cover save.

If you couldn't take cover saves in the movement phase, why go out of the way to say that vector strikes ignore cover?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Except it's not a psychic attack, it's a "you're nearby so I ate your soul" ability, why would a chest-high wall or bit of shrubbery prevent your soul from being eaten? That's like trying to stop a magnet being pulled towards another magnet by putting helium in the way.

And what would be wrong with that?
A universe where the Warp exists, where magic exists, might have helium that stops a magnet.
That's also the magic word of the day: "magic".

The cover save rules do not specify they are only against shooting attacks, they specify when the model is granted a cover save, If the model is entitled a save, they have permission to make the best available save, including a cover save.

Than I would like to see the rule that cover saves can be made against any wound.
That's how this game works: You need permission to do stuff.

BRB Page 18 wrote:Cover saving throws are not affected by the AP value of an attacking weapon, so units in cover get a saving throw regardless of what's firing at them.

When do you take a saving throw?

BRB Page 16 wrote:If a model has an Armour Save characteristic of 6+ or better on its profile, it is allowed a further dice roll to see if the armour prevents the Wound.

Any time you take a wound you get a save. Which means you need denial to remove that save.

Look at dangerous terrain.
It is a wound you take in the movement phase, and it is neither shooting nor close combat.
It specifies that you get armor, and you do not get cover.

Dark Eldar jet bikes Bladevanes (and bladevane upgrades) are FAQ'd to say you use the final position of the bike.

HIWPI, I'd use the final position of the bomber for the direction of attack.

-Matt